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Neither do I personally. My only other question that I can think of now is can multiple countries each have factories in the same state or is it just one person who has factory control in the state until the whole state is conquered?
I'm just a little confused with the term 'state' is it being used in this discusion to mean 'region', or is it a new term that means a single or group of provinces in a contested (i.e. isn't 100% controlled by one nation) region?
I think it's being used interchangably with regions, especially regions in the USA (Which correspond to the state borders, in fact).
Oh, and I also wish to voice my discontent with the current idea of factories not falling under the control of an invader until they take the entire region. As was pointed out by others, it is remarkably unrealistic that a nation taking the majority of a region would not take a single factory until they control the entire region, and the defending nation would maintain total control of the industrial infrastructure despite losing provence after provence, until they lose the last provence in said region.
Oh, and I also wish to voice my discontent with the current idea of factories not falling under the control of an invader until they take the entire region. As was pointed out by others, it is remarkably unrealistic that a nation taking the majority of a region would not take a single factory until they control the entire region, and the defending nation would maintain total control of the industrial infrastructure despite losing provence after provence, until they lose the last provence in said region.
One compromise would be to have a regional capital that you have to take, and control of the factories goes to whoever controls it. But I'm more than happy to wait until I have the game to play with before asking for changes. I’ll trust paradox to make the right call both pre and post release.
Aren't factories abstract infrastructures that only improve your region's main statistics, more than actual brick-and-mortar-old-economy buildings ?
And if region A / Germany is improved like mad by the German player whereas region A / France is left unexploited by the French one because the French are lazy and business dummies and prefer love and poems to coal industry
, what happens if, say, region A is re-united by Switzerland ? Does Switzerland inherit a mean concerning regional figures?
Oh well, I guess we'll see in a month. Thanks, I may rest in peace now.
And if region A / Germany is improved like mad by the German player whereas region A / France is left unexploited by the French one because the French are lazy and business dummies and prefer love and poems to coal industry
, what happens if, say, region A is re-united by Switzerland ? Does Switzerland inherit a mean concerning regional figures?Oh well, I guess we'll see in a month. Thanks, I may rest in peace now.
The terminology used in the game and manual is:
Province
State
Country
There are no regional capitals and the way it works now is the way we think it works best.
P
Province
State
Country
There are no regional capitals and the way it works now is the way we think it works best.
P
I second. HoI is more realistic, there the industry can be captured, but doesn't work 100%.
No, HOI is not any more realistic. The `provinces' in HOI just correspond to regions in Victoria, i.e. you get the industry when you control the whole are. If anything Victoria is more realistic since you can hurt the enemy's production by capturing some of the regions population even before you get the
whole region.
Cheers, H.
some people seem to miss the point, I'll come back on my example =
before =
- confederate states of America have many states, one of them is Louisiana. New Orleans is a province of the state of Louisiana,
- the united states of America have many states and are at war with the confederacy. They invade New Orleans and capture it,
after =
- confederates have a state called Louisiana without New Orleans,
- the Union now has a state called Louisiana with the province of New Orleans,
the confederates only loose a minor part of their resources (cotton) but a larger part of the Louisiana pop's because New Orleans was a huge city for the confederacy.
The Union doesn't get the factories in Louisiana because they only control one province. Factories are spread over the state of Louisiana,
Patric, I hope this is corret. I agree with you that this was a reasonable way to display and manage the economical model. The only - small - remark I have that this model favours the confederates because they had some very large iron works located in the major cities.
Like the big ironworks in Richmond. A Union player able to capture Richmond would have cut the South from a large part of the iron good,
On the other hand, It could have been a wise desicion to not make it that easy to conquer the enemy...
and many factories were spread over a state (take the Union example).
before =
- confederate states of America have many states, one of them is Louisiana. New Orleans is a province of the state of Louisiana,
- the united states of America have many states and are at war with the confederacy. They invade New Orleans and capture it,
after =
- confederates have a state called Louisiana without New Orleans,
- the Union now has a state called Louisiana with the province of New Orleans,
the confederates only loose a minor part of their resources (cotton) but a larger part of the Louisiana pop's because New Orleans was a huge city for the confederacy.
The Union doesn't get the factories in Louisiana because they only control one province. Factories are spread over the state of Louisiana,
Patric, I hope this is corret. I agree with you that this was a reasonable way to display and manage the economical model. The only - small - remark I have that this model favours the confederates because they had some very large iron works located in the major cities.
Like the big ironworks in Richmond. A Union player able to capture Richmond would have cut the South from a large part of the iron good,
On the other hand, It could have been a wise desicion to not make it that easy to conquer the enemy...
and many factories were spread over a state (take the Union example).
What's "RGO" ? In the kontext it have to be a factory are something similar, but what exactly ?
Resource Gathering Operation
Where POPs can work to gather natural resources in provinces.
P
Where POPs can work to gather natural resources in provinces.
P
Now you're talking! Thanks for clarifying Patric. I was a bit confused, as it seemed to me that state=country. Then this whole get-all-land-to-get-all-industry wouldn't make sense. But now it's OK and reasonable. Effects just seem the same like from taking\losing in HoI one province, but here (in VIC) province means in fact a smaller territorial unit. After taking all provinces in a state you gain all factories just from that state - usually one of many in a country.
Do we really have to use this confusing American "state" instead of nice European "region"?
I'd prefer "region", too... Let's all make a pact to ignore Paradox, the game and the manual and keep calling the things "regions" instead of the confusing "state" thing.
EDIT: More seriously, Ernst makes a very good point. If there's a region A in Germany and a region A in France (each of them taking half of region Belgium, for example) will they be able to develop their half of the region separately? What happens when both parts of the region are taken by the same country?
That actually got me thinking about something else. Imagining a "Poland region", would an alliance of Russia, Prussia and Austria be able to get one third each? (adapt to suitable in-period event of your choice)
EDIT: More seriously, Ernst makes a very good point. If there's a region A in Germany and a region A in France (each of them taking half of region Belgium, for example
) will they be able to develop their half of the region separately? What happens when both parts of the region are taken by the same country?That actually got me thinking about something else. Imagining a "Poland region", would an alliance of Russia, Prussia and Austria be able to get one third each? (adapt to suitable in-period event of your choice
)
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people,
read my example before asking weird questions...
Belgium will never be a state within France, nor Germany. Belgium most possible will be a one state nation or 2 state nation. When Belgium should become divided by both Germany and France, the lone annexing Belgium (perhaps the leader) will get the factories,
I do agree that state is more of an American word compared to Region being more of a European word,
it's up to Paradow to choose their words,
read my example before asking weird questions...
Belgium will never be a state within France, nor Germany. Belgium most possible will be a one state nation or 2 state nation. When Belgium should become divided by both Germany and France, the lone annexing Belgium (perhaps the leader) will get the factories,
I do agree that state is more of an American word compared to Region being more of a European word,
it's up to Paradow to choose their words,
This is an interesting thread. A few comments . . .
1.
Marcus Valerius wrote:
In this example, I would guess that no one would really be able to use those factories. The invader does not control the factories as long as a single province remains. The defender would lack the regional population to use the factories at anywhere near full capacity.
2. I wonder how factories will operate in the following scenarios:
- An invader occupies part of a state. According to above posts, the invader will not get any factories since he does not control the entire state. Will the invader be able to build new factories for the partial state/region that he does control?
- Two allies invade a state from different directions and they capture all the provinces in the state between them. The defender no longer controls any provinces in the state. What rules will determine which ally gets the factories?
EnPeaSea
1.
Marcus Valerius wrote:
In this example, I would guess that no one would really be able to use those factories. The invader does not control the factories as long as a single province remains. The defender would lack the regional population to use the factories at anywhere near full capacity.
2. I wonder how factories will operate in the following scenarios:
- An invader occupies part of a state. According to above posts, the invader will not get any factories since he does not control the entire state. Will the invader be able to build new factories for the partial state/region that he does control?
- Two allies invade a state from different directions and they capture all the provinces in the state between them. The defender no longer controls any provinces in the state. What rules will determine which ally gets the factories?
EnPeaSea