TFH - division composition and other question

[Flowshi]

I'm trying to get into the game for like the forth time. I'm always overwhelmed and give it up after a few tries.

I know some of these question came up before, so sorry if I ask again. I read all the wikis, I read here at the forum, at other forum and I watched numerous tutorials, some of the stuff seems to be outdated (especially the wiki), so I'm not sure what is correct and what not.

OK, playing as germany, crushed Poland, the Nederlands, Belgium and France with ease. First problem are those pesky strat bombers from the UK. Dunno how to fight them, or I just suck with my interceptors. I put them (3 in groups of 3) on air supremecy (defensive) over the Nederlands/Belgium/France and the Rhineregion (no overlapping if possible). Still get bombed like hell, they dont seem to intercept.

Second problem, the soviets. Wiki says 8 army with 4 korps each, some as inf, some as arms. Well, it's 1940, and I have half of that, not even possible to build enough in time. So my composition seems to be to much time/IC consuming. Here's what I usually build.

1 Army (5 corps with 5 division each)
- 3 Inf corps (Inf/Inf/Art/AT later a thrid inf)
- 1 Exploitcorps (LARm/LArm/LArm)
- 1 breakthroughcorps (Mot/Mot/TD/TD later a third Mot) - for the northern part of russia (Heeresgruppe Nord)
- or 1 breakthrough (Arm/Arm/Arm/Arm/Mot) - southern part of russia (Heeresgruppe Süd)

The last one is according to the wiki " Arguably most powerful all-around single division. ". I like to keep everything gernerally, all the armies the same way. Any good suggestions for fast exploitation, and hard hitting breakthroughdivisions. Is it worth to put the third inf into the infantrydivions (inf/inf/inf/art/at)?

 

[gunstickuncle]

Assuming we are talking about TFH expansion:

OK, playing as germany, crushed Poland, the Nederlands, Belgium and France with ease. First problem are those pesky strat bombers from the UK. Dunno how to fight them, or I just suck with my interceptors. I put them (3 in groups of 3) on air supremecy (defensive) over the Nederlands/Belgium/France and the Rhineregion (no overlapping if possible). Still get bombed like hell, they dont seem to intercept.

Well as you stated already, there have been discussions on how to fight STR in the past, and they do contain most of the relevant information, so i'll keep it to a minimum:
Using groups of 3 interceptors is ok, but having maybe 8-12 single INT with overlapping areas might be even better to have more interceptions in total. You could also set them on intercept duty manually, because that saves a lot of fuel. Build Radar on the ground where you expect inbound enemy planes to help detection. Make sure your planes are getting repaired and reorganized properly by placing them in adequately sized airbases.

Second problem, the soviets. Wiki says 8 army with 4 korps each, some as inf, some as arms. Well, it's 1940, and I have half of that, not even possible to build enough in time. So my composition seems to be to much time/IC consuming. Here's what I usually build.

1 Army (5 corps with 5 division each)
- 3 Inf corps (Inf/Inf/Art/AT later a thrid inf)
- 1 Exploitcorps (LARm/LArm/LArm)
- 1 breakthroughcorps (Mot/Mot/TD/TD later a third Mot) - for the northern part of russia (Heeresgruppe Nord)

Division composition is a huge topic, and everyone has his or her individual preferences. But again, keeping it to a minimum:
- Inf div is ok. You're never doing anything wrong with {INF INF ART AT}. Maybe add another ART for more punch with 5th brigade, but that's not crucial. I don't recommend the 3rd INF because it's too manpower consuming for Germany.
- Exploit should rather be: {LARM AC AC AC}. Its cheaper, and faster. Should be manually controlled because the AI is not doing well at performing encirclements.
- Breakthough corps...maybe thats what wiki says. But wiki is getting old in that case. Mot Mot TD TD is not a very strong combo in TFH anymore because of the changes in the combined arms system.
Maybe use ARM MOT TD AC or ARM MOT TD SPART. Adding another ARM as 5th brigade is an option, but there are lot of options. Just make sure you have a core of at least one armored and one infantry type brigade. Or use HARM (if allowed to, some mp games limit that) in basically any reasonable combination, because thats way more powerful. Even when added to a relatively mediocre infantry division.

- or 1 breakthrough (Arm/Arm/Arm/Arm/Mot) - southern part of russia (Heeresgruppe Süd)
The last one is according to the wiki " Arguably most powerful all-around single division. ". I like to keep everything gernerally, all the armies the same way. Any good suggestions for fast exploitation, and hard hitting breakthroughdivisions. Is it worth to put the third inf into the infantrydivions (inf/inf/inf/art/at)?

I seriously doubt that, because it has a frontage of 5 if teched properly (9 if not), which means there is not a lot of space for other units to participate in combat, massively reducing the firepower you can deliver. Imho it's also way too expensive. I recommend having units with 2 or 3 frontage for most purposes.
When it comes to division composition, there are more able people here to go in-depth so I'll leave you with my guidelines.

If you are struggling with your IC to fulfill the needs for Barbarossa, consider building some IC right in the start, they will pay off. Annex parts of your enemies territories (like Northern France, or Belgium) or enact harsher occupation laws on them. Make sure you pick the most efficient laws for Germany, and make sure you make good use of practicals.

 

[Kovax]

Putting your Interceptors on Intercept orders on the cities that are constantly being bombed works a lot better than trying to guess which provinces the AI planes will happen to stop at along the way to and from. The game doesn't move aircraft linearly from province to province; they teleport from one province to another within range, skipping any in between. If your aircraft are flying Air Superiority over those provinces in between, you'll never touch the bombers. The AI tends to hit the same provinces over and over for the same reasons each time (quantity of IC, and ratio of IC to defensive AA), so you should have a pretty good idea of where to target your INT. Incidentally, if you develop Nukes, don't let the AI deploy them, because it uses the same algorithm to choose a target as STRAT uses, and will repeatedly drop EVERY Nuke on the same target, over and over.

With the TFH expansion, placing more than one armored brigade in a division is a waste of resources and supply/fuel. It only takes one to give you the Piercing and Armor stats, and without a basic INF/MOT/CAV/whatever troop brigade you don't even get the Combined Arms bonus, because there's nothing for those support units to combine WITH. I prefer using ARM/MOT/AC and either SPART or another MOT. As pointed out in the previous post, exploitation works slightly better (and a lot cheaper) with a combination of LARM/AC than with all LARM, and I often "stiffen" it with a MOT brigade so it can fight if necessary.

 

[Pro_Consul]

As to division composition, gunstick and Kovax have hit the most important points on the mechanics. But ultimately the single most important element is planning. You need to devise a larger strategy for what strategic goals you want to accomplish with your chosen nation, then choose the operational methods you intend to use to achieve those goals. Only then should you examine the issue of force composition, and finally division composition. Almost any method can work if you commit to it from the start and craft yourself a force structure to match it.

To take your own example, you appear to be trying to pursue a roughly historical ground warfare model for Germany. To that end, what Kovax suggests would be a highly effective way to fill the armored division and exploitation division niches. And what gunstick suggested for INT divisions would fill that niche, though you had already settled on that element on your own. But your force composition for the Luftwaffe seems to be falling well short of the historical model, most importantly in the overall size of your interceptor force.

One other important note about Kovax's suggestion for armored units, i.e. limiting them to one armored brigade combined with other elements. His points are correct of course, but one thing he didn't mention that will become critical in the invasion of the USSR is the logistical burden. Armored divisions need a lot of fuel and supply. As you push your front lines deep into Soviet territory, your supply lines are going to get severely stretched and their throughput will drop due to lower infrastructure levels. These two factors can make it virtually impossible to keep such high consumption units supplied on the front lines, and the effort of trying to push that much supply to reach them will also make it much harder to keep the lower consumption units (which you will have in far greater numbers) supplied. This is yet another reason to keep your armored divisions more lean. That isn't enough in the long run; you will need to make operational adjustments as well, peeling those units back as your supply lines become overburdened, but the build itself is still the necessary starting point for addressing this issue.

::Made late edit to correct some seriously jacked up typing errors that were giving totally backwards info.

 

[Flowshi]

Thank for your replies, gonna test it with my next game.