Texas- Mexican Culture

[panther-anthro]

Texas- Mexican Culture

So, why exactly was this removed? It makes games as texas very, very hard. It's kind of like piratini in it's extreme difficulty in getting immigrants already... -I've never seen piratini get immigrants, even when I played it.-

So, how is Texas supposed to succeed without Mexican Culture?

 

[unmerged(131989)]

Texas- Mexican Culture

So, why exactly was this removed? It makes games as texas very, very hard. It's kind of like piratini in it's extreme difficulty in getting immigrants already... -I've never seen piratini get immigrants, even when I played it.-

So, how is Texas supposed to succeed without Mexican Culture?

Well AI Texas seems to be fine without it, so I don't see a problem. Regardless, at some point there would need to be an event removing "Mexican" from Texas' accepted cultures, so having Texas without it at the start doesn't make a spectacular difference.

 

[panther-anthro]

Well AI Texas seems to be fine without it, so I don't see a problem. Regardless, at some point there would need to be an event removing "Mexican" from Texas' accepted cultures, so having Texas without it at the start doesn't make a spectacular difference.

It does for player Texas. If you go a-historical lamar route, you are pretty much doomed to being unable to industrialize.

 

[unmerged(131989)]

Maybe it should be accepted then, with a command in, say, the "Tejano Expulsion" event which removes the Mexicans as an accepted culture should you choose historically.

 

[unmerged(48056)]

Victoria is the kind of game that necessitates editing saves in order to keep it interesting and entertaining.


Mexico --> Constitutional Monarchy. I hate the picture of Benito Juarez and I usually change it to Franz Joseph, because that's the closes we have in the image database to Maximillian.

Texas --> I treat it as a Criollo (albeit Yankee) influenced Republican-Civil War against Santa Anna. It's amazing how the Texas Revolution resulted in an independent Texas, when the reason it actually started (among other rebellions in Mexico at the time) was because Santa Anna was a despot and a power mongering Centralist.




Texas should have Mexican as a starting culture.
I think the question of losing Mexican culture should be tied into the Yucatan Republic. If Texas supports the Yucatan Republic, than that should create a tag "Mexican-Texas", whereyn Texas sees itself as part of the Republican struggle against Santa Anna ~ as opposed to being a separate entity.

 

[unmerged(131989)]

Ideally we'd seperate the Mexicans in Texas into a culture called "Tejano" to highlight that there was Spanish-speaking people fighting for an independent Texas.

However, I'm not sure how ideal this solution is as they are essentially Mexican-cultured, and VIP has seemingly taken a shift away from "political" cultures (i.e. the seperation of the British culture group to highlight different cultures, rather than the political side of identifying as "British" which is essentially displaying pro-unionism, and thus a political view).

Personally I think a shift back towards the "political" cultures would be better (we have Yankee and Dixie still, afterall), as this would allow us to unify the German and Italian POPs into one culture group (i.e. politically they all wanted unity, and any discrimination in the culture war (for example) could be modelled through events), and we could split the Afrikaner POP into "Cape Dutch" and "Boer" to show political differences leading to different identities emerging there (which was mentioned by some South African posters a while ago). The "Tejano" culture could also be created if we were to shift back to the political-identity method.

Political identity was very important during the period, least of all for the various nationalist aspirations. This is another reason why I would like to see it shifted back to that method. It would also allow for some clarity in what we define as a culture group, as currently it is a bit hazey.

 

[Plushie]

Personally I think a shift back towards the "political" cultures would be better (we have Yankee and Dixie still, afterall)

Of course, 'Yankee' and "Dixie' are a bit more than political terms.

 

[unmerged(131989)]

Of course, 'Yankee' and "Dixie' are a bit more than political terms.

I would say they are broad generalisations there for a political identity (i.e. the slavery debate). Afterall, "Yankee" could be broken up further along cultural lines (there does exist some cultural differences between, say, a New Englander and a Californian).

Another example of a political split is in the Chinese population of north and south. That's still there.

 

[panther-anthro]

Mmm, my issue is actually that if you beat Mexico, and get all the cores in the Lamar route in the events. You end up having no possibility to industrialize later on. I'm implying if you play as texas, the nation is fundamentally flawed from total lack of immigration capacity. The removal of mexican culture, really hurt the whole playing as texas as I've stated before.

I'm not talking about the original war with mexico I'm talking about afterwards; incase you were confused.

 

[unmerged(131989)]

Mmm, my issue is actually that if you beat Mexico, and get all the cores in the Lamar route in the events. You end up having no possibility to industrialize later on. I'm implying if you play as texas, the nation is fundamentally flawed from total lack of immigration capacity. The removal of mexican culture, really hurt the whole playing as texas as I've stated before.

I'm not talking about the original war with mexico I'm talking about afterwards; incase you were confused.

Well in that case I would disagree. If you want to go that route then perhaps you should seek to get a full citizenship party in power.

The war of independence did have many "Mexicans" (or more appropriately "Tejano") supporters for it, and so it seems right to have that culture at the start (again, as mentioned a few posts above, would be better to have "Tejano" as a seperate culture, but we really need to define how we see cultures (which could have repercussions for a variety of other cultures - see above)). When the discrimination and inequality became official, that's when that culture would be lost.

However, if afterwards, then why should Texas gain that culture? Would those Mexicans really be considered equal? I doubt it - they were conquered, not supporters of the Texan state.

Anyway, in the next version Texas has Mexican culture again, though it gets lost through an event. As I said before though, I would like to go back to the political identity thing, which would mean we could seperate them into Tejano culture in Texas (amongst a variety of other changes).

 

[Fire_Unionist]

Why not simply make the Tejanos Texan? There isn't any real difference between them in game terms.

And for that matter, why not make them all Dixie?

 

[unmerged(131989)]

Why not simply make the Tejanos Texan? There isn't any real difference between them in game terms.

And for that matter, why not make them all Dixie?

Tejanos are culturally Mexican, though politically Texan (or at least supported a Texan state at the start). They eventually did become discriminated against, and so it's worth having that minority represented.

Also, the general argument of "no real difference in game terms" is a VERY poor argument. It would result in a flavourless and uninteresting POP setup.

 

[Fire_Unionist]

Also, the general argument of "no real difference in game terms" is a VERY poor argument. It would result in a flavourless and uninteresting POP setup.

Oh, I agree, it's just that if the tags are needed elsewhere, this culture is not really necessary.

 

[unmerged(131989)]

Oh, I agree, it's just that if the tags are needed elsewhere, this culture is not really necessary.

But we have Mexican (which isn't ideal, as I say), so there's no need to make them Texan.

 

[panther-anthro]

Well in that case I would disagree. If you want to go that route then perhaps you should seek to get a full citizenship party in power.

The war of independence did have many "Mexicans" (or more appropriately "Tejano") supporters for it, and so it seems right to have that culture at the start (again, as mentioned a few posts above, would be better to have "Tejano" as a seperate culture, but we really need to define how we see cultures (which could have repercussions for a variety of other cultures - see above)). When the discrimination and inequality became official, that's when that culture would be lost.

However, if afterwards, then why should Texas gain that culture? Would those Mexicans really be considered equal? I doubt it - they were conquered, not supporters of the Texan state.

Anyway, in the next version Texas has Mexican culture again, though it gets lost through an event. As I said before though, I would like to go back to the political identity thing, which would mean we could seperate them into Tejano culture in Texas (amongst a variety of other changes).

Full Citizenship parties for texas, aren't exactly something that will come early enough to allow it to have a fighting chance against the USA.

Why can't there be events to keep mexican culture somehow as Texas then? Also, according to the events in the game, you gain cores on a massive number of mexican provinces, and can even gain the Yucatan. So why not have Mexican, or Mayan culture as tolerated if you are going a-historical?

 

[Fire_Unionist]

But we have Mexican (which isn't ideal, as I say), so there's no need to make them Texan.

I'm just afraid that it will be impossible to play as Texas without going wildly AH (as in Socialist Texas). If it's the AI, that's one thing, but I wouldn't mind sacrificing some historicity to make Texas playable, it's a fun little country to play and see if you can build an American empire without being a "conventional" contender. IMO, Mexican culture for Texas > Socialist Texas.

 

[unmerged(131989)]

Full Citizenship parties for texas, aren't exactly something that will come early enough to allow it to have a fighting chance against the USA.

Why can't there be events to keep mexican culture somehow as Texas then? Also, according to the events in the game, you gain cores on a massive number of mexican provinces, and can even gain the Yucatan. So why not have Mexican, or Mayan culture as tolerated if you are going a-historical?

I'm just afraid that it will be impossible to play as Texas without going wildly AH (as in Socialist Texas). If it's the AI, that's one thing, but I wouldn't mind sacrificing some historicity to make Texas playable, it's a fun little country to play and see if you can build an American empire without being a "conventional" contender. IMO, Mexican culture for Texas > Socialist Texas.

Again, and as mentioned above, Mexican is back in. However, it gets lost if you choose historically in an existing Texan event (Tejano expulsion, IIRC).

 

[panther-anthro]

Well as long as you can choose a-historically, I'm fine with that.