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Robmel

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YodaMaster said:
Problem is just about capital location in 1419, not about culture and revolt.txt (see post #74, culture will be German if revolter and German + Baltic + Ugric in this order at start).
i'm not sure I understand the proposed change(s). Kurland province is Baltic and Livland province is Ugric. Where is the problem?

In my opinion the main problem lies in the division of provinces in Livonia region - they correspond only with situation after Livonian war (1582) when the Estland was under Sweden, Livland - Polish-Lith Commonwealth and Kurland as PLC's vassal.

Before that war the Livonian confederation didn't had such provinces, especially Livland and Estland.
The culture for Livland province should actually be mixed, because its northern part was populated with Estonians (Ugric) while southern part with Latvians (Baltic), the capital Wenden lies in Latvian part, but since it is impossible to depict that, I leave decision to you. The ethnical and cultural border divides the historical province of Livland in the middle, which roughly corresponds with modern border between Latvia and Estonia.
 

Toio

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YodaMaster said:
Problem is just about capital location in 1419, not about culture and revolt.txt (see post #74, culture will be German if revolter and German + Baltic + Ugric in this order at start).
i'm not sure I understand the proposed change(s). Kurland province is Baltic and Livland province is Ugric. Where is the problem?


IIRC (correct me if i am in error) , but doesnt baltic represent the germanic peoples of the baltic states as well as prussians?
 

Toio

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YodaMaster said:
What do you mean with germanic peoples?

the teutonic germans, germans of latvia, prussians etc. As i said, unsure, but in the past we used baltic to represent these "germans"

If I am wrong, then let me know.

without a forum search its awful gathering old decisions
 

unmerged(40707)

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I have no idea neither but it is a fact Baltic culture can't represent "full" German nor Ugric.
 

Therion

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Toio said:
the teutonic germans, germans of latvia, prussians etc. As i said, unsure, but in the past we used baltic to represent these "germans"

If I am wrong, then let me know.

without a forum search its awful gathering old decisions
I always took it for granted that "Baltic" represents the Baltic peoples. Otherwise, how could "Lithuanian" be merged with "Baltic"?
 

unmerged(40707)

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With capital in Livland, we have a problem with this event:
Code:
#(1560-1590) The Fate of the Livonian Order
#Raudex-EEP version
event = {
	id = 3620
	trigger = {
		exists = POL
		exists = SWE
		exists = DAN
		exists = RUS
		atwar = no
		NOT = { exists = KUR }
	}
	random = no
	country = LIV
	name = "EVENTNAME3620" #The Fate of the Livonian Order
	desc = "EVENTHIST3620"
	#-#

	date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1560 }
	offset = 30
	deathdate = { day = 1 month = january year = 1590 }

	action_a = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME3620A" #Polish-Swedish Agreement
		command = { type = removecore which = 276 } #Estland
		command = { type = removecore which = 282 } #Livland
		command = { type = removecore which = 275 } #Ingermanland
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = SWE value = 276 } #Estland
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = SWE value = 275 } #Ingermanland
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = SWE value = 252 } #Småland
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = SWE value = 253 } #Västergötland
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = SWE value = 257 } #Bergslagen
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = SWE value = 260 } #Lappland
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = SWE value = 263 } #Österbotten
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = SWE value = 264 } #Tavastland
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = SWE value = 265 } #Nyland
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = SWE value = 273 } #Savolaks
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = SWE value = 341 } #Västerbotten
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = SWE value = 342 } #Finland
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = SWE value = 1469 } #Gästrikland
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = SWE value = 262 } #Kola
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = SWE value = 266 } #Kexholm
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = SWE value = 267 } #Olonets
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = SWE value = 269 } #Arkhangelsk
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = POL value = 274 } #Novgorod
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = SWE value = 1470 } #Karelia
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = SWE value = 251 } #Skåne
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = SWE value = 307 } #Sjælland
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = SWE value = 308 } #Gotland
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = SWE value = 309 } #Jylland
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = SWE value = 255 } #Østlandet
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = SWE value = 256 } #Bergenshus
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = SWE value = 258 } #Trøndelag
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = SWE value = 259 } #Narvik
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = SWE value = 261 } #Finnmark
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = SWE value = 381 } #Jämtland
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = SWE value = 1466 } #Iceland
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = POL value = 278 } #Tver
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = POL value = 277 } #Pskov
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = POL value = 292 } #Podlasia
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = POL value = 291 } #Masovia
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = POL value = 297 } #Podolia
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = POL value = 298 } #Galizien
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = POL value = 299 } #Krakow
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = POL value = 300 } #Wielkopolska
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = POL value = 303 } #Poznan
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = POL value = 279 } #Tula
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = POL value = 280 } #Welikia
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = POL value = 284 } #Belarus
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = POL value = 286 } #Kursk
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = POL value = 287 } #Mozyr
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = POL value = 288 } #Lithuania
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = POL value = 293 } #Volyn
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = POL value = 294 } #Chernigov
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = POL value = 295 } #Ukraina
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = POL value = 296 } #Jedisan
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = POL value = 450 } #Belgorod
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = POL value = 461 } #Poltava
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = POL value = 462 } #Krementjug
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = POL value = 268 } #Vologda
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = POL value = 270 } #Moscow
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = POL value = 272 } #Nizhgorod
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = POL value = 282 } #Livland
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = POL value = 281 } #Polotsk
		command = { type = flagname which = "" }
		command = { type = country which = KUR }
		command = { type = treasury value = 500 }
		command = { type = stability value = 6 }
		command = { type = independence which = PRU }
		command = { type = trigger which = 3470 } #POL: The Fate of the Livonian Order
		command = { type = trigger which = 3220 } #SWE: The Fate of the Livonian Order
		command = { type = trigger which = 3290 } #DAN: The Fate of the Livonian Order
		command = { type = trigger which = 3407 } #RUS: The Fate of the Livonian Order
	}
	action_b = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME3620B" #Russo-Danish Agreement
		command = { type = removecore which = 276 } #Estland
		command = { type = removecore which = 282 } #Livland
		command = { type = removecore which = 275 } #Ingermanland
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = RUS value = 276 } #Estland
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = RUS value = 275 } #Ingermanland
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = DAN value = 282 } #Livland
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = DAN value = 281 } #Polotsk
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = DAN value = 252 } #Småland
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = DAN value = 253 } #Västergötland
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = DAN value = 257 } #Bergslagen
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = DAN value = 260 } #Lappland
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = DAN value = 263 } #Österbotten
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = DAN value = 264 } #Tavastland
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = DAN value = 265 } #Nyland
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = DAN value = 273 } #Savolaks
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = DAN value = 341 } #Västerbotten
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = DAN value = 342 } #Finland
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = DAN value = 1469 } #Gästrikland
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = RUS value = 262 } #Kola
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = RUS value = 266 } #Kexholm
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = RUS value = 267 } #Olonets
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = RUS value = 269 } #Arkhangelsk
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = RUS value = 274 } #Novgorod
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = RUS value = 1470 } #Karelia
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = DAN value = 251 } #Skåne
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = DAN value = 254 } #Svealand
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = DAN value = 308 } #Gotland
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = DAN value = 309 } #Jylland
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = DAN value = 255 } #Østlandet
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = DAN value = 256 } #Bergenshus
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = DAN value = 258 } #Trøndelag
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = DAN value = 259 } #Narvik
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = DAN value = 261 } #Finnmark
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = DAN value = 381 } #Jämtland
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = DAN value = 1466 } #Iceland
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = RUS value = 297 } #Podolia
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = RUS value = 298 } #Galizien
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = RUS value = 299 } #Krakow
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = RUS value = 300 } #Wielkopolska
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = RUS value = 303 } #Poznan
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = RUS value = 279 } #Tula
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = RUS value = 280 } #Welikia
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = RUS value = 284 } #Belarus
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = RUS value = 286 } #Kursk
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = RUS value = 287 } #Mozyr
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = RUS value = 288 } #Lithuania
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = RUS value = 293 } #Volyn
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = RUS value = 294 } #Chernigov
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = RUS value = 295 } #Ukraina
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = RUS value = 296 } #Jedisan
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = RUS value = 450 } #Belgorod
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = RUS value = 461 } #Poltava
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = RUS value = 462 } #Krementjug
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = RUS value = 268 } #Vologda
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = RUS value = 270 } #Moscow
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = RUS value = 272 } #Nizhgorod
		command = { type = flagname which = "" }
		command = { type = country which = KUR }
		command = { type = treasury value = 500 }
		command = { type = stability value = 6 }
		command = { type = independence which = PRU }
		command = { type = trigger which = 3471 } #POL: The Fate of the Livonian Order
		command = { type = trigger which = 3221 } #SWE: The Fate of the Livonian Order
		command = { type = trigger which = 3291 } #DAN: The Fate of the Livonian Order
		command = { type = trigger which = 3408 } #RUS: The Fate of the Livonian Order
	}
	action_c = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME3620C" #Die-Hard Independence
		command = { type = stability value = -3 }
		command = { type = treasury value = -500 }
		command = { type = religion which = catholic }
		command = { type = domestic which = ARISTOCRACY value = 3 }
		command = { type = domestic which = INNOVATIVE value = -3 }
		command = { type = domestic which = SERFDOM value = 3 }
		command = { type = trigger which = 3472 } #POL: The Fate of the Livonian Order
		command = { type = trigger which = 3222 } #SWE: The Fate of the Livonian Order
		command = { type = trigger which = 3292 } #DAN: The Fate of the Livonian Order
		command = { type = trigger which = 3409 } #RUS: The Fate of the Livonian Order
	}
}
#-#Following Russian attacks in the 1550's, and out of collapse of the Livonian Order, Master Gotthard Ketteler salvaged Kurland from the Order's territory as a secular duchy under Polish sovereignty. This vassalage brought Poland into conflict with Russia, allied with Denmark and started the 1563-1570 War of the Three Crowns against Sweden. At the 1582 armistice of Jan Zapolski, Russia was beaten, gave up Livland and Polotsk and Sweden won the Baltic province of Estland while Livland and Kurland remained under Polish control. We may transform into Kurland and give Livland and Estland away in any of the two agreements, or we may revert to Catholicism and again grab the Armed Glove of the True Faith.

If Livonian Order doesn't own Kurland province, there is no reason to become Courland. And it is impossible to secede Livland province without possible CTD or capital in the middle of nowhere. But if Kurland is still owned, it is easy to move capital there (only missing command).
Should we check ownership of Kurland in this event then but what could happen if Kurland is not owned? Couldn't we have a twin event with only action_c of current event in this case?
 

Robmel

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YodaMaster said:
If Livonian Order doesn't own Kurland province, there is no reason to become Courland. And it is impossible to secede Livland province without possible CTD or capital in the middle of nowhere. But if Kurland is still owned, it is easy to move capital there (only missing command).
Should we check ownership of Kurland in this event then but what could happen if Kurland is not owned? Couldn't we have a twin event with only action_c of current event in this case?
Livonian Order should be able to secularize with out Livonian War, just like Prussia did in 1525. It was only matter of time (the provinces were already protestant) and having landmeister from known noble house of Germany.
 

unmerged(40707)

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Livonian Order can turn Protestant if the state survives (i.e. secularization if no Livonian War). AI will switch as soon as possible in this case.

We could then have two options for the twin event (if Kurland province is not owned):
die hard independence, current action_c
another option: secularization as Protestant country

Only real problem is ownership of Kurland province in order to become Courland and possible CTD with current version of LIV_3620. Otherwise we don't have the choice for the name of the country and the location of its capital but AI will turn Protestant for sure.
 

De-VILLARS

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Code:
#(1560-1590) The Fate of the Livonian Order
#Raudex-EEP version
event = {
	id = 3620
	trigger = {
		exists = POL
		exists = SWE
		exists = DAN
		exists = RUS
		atwar = no
		NOT = { exists = KUR }
	}
	random = no
	country = LIV
	name = "EVENTNAME3620" #The Fate of the Livonian Order
	desc = "EVENTHIST3620"
	

	date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1560 }
	offset = 30
	deathdate = { day = 1 month = january year = 1590 }

	action_a = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME3620A" #Polish-Swedish Agreement
		command = { type = removecore which = 276 } #Estland
		command = { type = removecore which = 282 } #Livland
		command = { type = removecore which = 275 } #Ingermanland
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = SWE value = 276 } #Estland
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = SWE value = 275 } #Ingermanland
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = SWE value = 252 } #Småland
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = SWE value = 253 } #Västergötland
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = SWE value = 257 } #Bergslagen
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = SWE value = 260 } #Lappland
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = SWE value = 263 } #Österbotten
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = SWE value = 264 } #Tavastland
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = SWE value = 265 } #Nyland
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = SWE value = 273 } #Savolaks
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = SWE value = 341 } #Västerbotten
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = SWE value = 342 } #Finland
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = SWE value = 1469 } #Gästrikland
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = SWE value = 262 } #Kola
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = SWE value = 266 } #Kexholm
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = SWE value = 267 } #Olonets
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = SWE value = 269 } #Arkhangelsk
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = POL value = 274 } #Novgorod
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = SWE value = 1470 } #Karelia
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = SWE value = 251 } #Skåne
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = SWE value = 307 } #Sjælland
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = SWE value = 308 } #Gotland
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = SWE value = 309 } #Jylland
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = SWE value = 255 } #Østlandet
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = SWE value = 256 } #Bergenshus
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = SWE value = 258 } #Trøndelag
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = SWE value = 259 } #Narvik
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = SWE value = 261 } #Finnmark
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = SWE value = 381 } #Jämtland
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = SWE value = 1466 } #Iceland
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = POL value = 278 } #Tver
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = POL value = 277 } #Pskov
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = POL value = 292 } #Podlasia
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = POL value = 291 } #Masovia
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = POL value = 297 } #Podolia
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = POL value = 298 } #Galizien
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = POL value = 299 } #Krakow
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = POL value = 300 } #Wielkopolska
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = POL value = 303 } #Poznan
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = POL value = 279 } #Tula
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = POL value = 280 } #Welikia
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = POL value = 284 } #Belarus
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = POL value = 286 } #Kursk
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = POL value = 287 } #Mozyr
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = POL value = 288 } #Lithuania
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = POL value = 293 } #Volyn
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = POL value = 294 } #Chernigov
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = POL value = 295 } #Ukraina
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = POL value = 296 } #Jedisan
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = POL value = 450 } #Belgorod
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = POL value = 461 } #Poltava
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = POL value = 462 } #Krementjug
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = POL value = 268 } #Vologda
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = POL value = 270 } #Moscow
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = POL value = 272 } #Nizhgorod
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = POL value = 282 } #Livland
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = POL value = 281 } #Polotsk
		command = { type = flagname which = "" }
		command = { type = country which = KUR }
		command = { type = treasury value = 500 }
		command = { type = stability value = 6 }
		command = { type = independence which = PRU } #Prussia
		[COLOR="Yellow"]command = { type = independence which = POM } #Pomerania[/COLOR]
		command = { type = trigger which = 3470 } #POL: The Fate of the Livonian Order
		command = { type = trigger which = 3220 } #SWE: The Fate of the Livonian Order
		command = { type = trigger which = 3290 } #DAN: The Fate of the Livonian Order
		command = { type = trigger which = 3407 } #RUS: The Fate of the Livonian Order
	}
	action_b = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME3620B" #Russo-Danish Agreement
		command = { type = removecore which = 276 } #Estland
		command = { type = removecore which = 282 } #Livland
		command = { type = removecore which = 275 } #Ingermanland
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = RUS value = 276 } #Estland
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = RUS value = 275 } #Ingermanland
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = DAN value = 282 } #Livland
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = DAN value = 281 } #Polotsk
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = DAN value = 252 } #Småland
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = DAN value = 253 } #Västergötland
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = DAN value = 257 } #Bergslagen
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = DAN value = 260 } #Lappland
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = DAN value = 263 } #Österbotten
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = DAN value = 264 } #Tavastland
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = DAN value = 265 } #Nyland
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = DAN value = 273 } #Savolaks
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = DAN value = 341 } #Västerbotten
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = DAN value = 342 } #Finland
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = DAN value = 1469 } #Gästrikland
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = RUS value = 262 } #Kola
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = RUS value = 266 } #Kexholm
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = RUS value = 267 } #Olonets
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = RUS value = 269 } #Arkhangelsk
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = RUS value = 274 } #Novgorod
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = RUS value = 1470 } #Karelia
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = DAN value = 251 } #Skåne
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = DAN value = 254 } #Svealand
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = DAN value = 308 } #Gotland
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = DAN value = 309 } #Jylland
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = DAN value = 255 } #Østlandet
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = DAN value = 256 } #Bergenshus
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = DAN value = 258 } #Trøndelag
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = DAN value = 259 } #Narvik
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = DAN value = 261 } #Finnmark
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = DAN value = 381 } #Jämtland
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = DAN value = 1466 } #Iceland
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = RUS value = 297 } #Podolia
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = RUS value = 298 } #Galizien
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = RUS value = 299 } #Krakow
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = RUS value = 300 } #Wielkopolska
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = RUS value = 303 } #Poznan
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = RUS value = 279 } #Tula
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = RUS value = 280 } #Welikia
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = RUS value = 284 } #Belarus
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = RUS value = 286 } #Kursk
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = RUS value = 287 } #Mozyr
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = RUS value = 288 } #Lithuania
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = RUS value = 293 } #Volyn
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = RUS value = 294 } #Chernigov
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = RUS value = 295 } #Ukraina
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = RUS value = 296 } #Jedisan
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = RUS value = 450 } #Belgorod
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = RUS value = 461 } #Poltava
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = RUS value = 462 } #Krementjug
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = RUS value = 268 } #Vologda
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = RUS value = 270 } #Moscow
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = RUS value = 272 } #Nizhgorod
		command = { type = flagname which = "" }
		command = { type = country which = KUR }
		command = { type = treasury value = 500 }
		command = { type = stability value = 6 }
		command = { type = independence which = PRU } #Prussia
		[COLOR="Yellow"]command = { type = independence which = POM } #Pomerania[/COLOR]
		command = { type = trigger which = 3471 } #POL: The Fate of the Livonian Order
		command = { type = trigger which = 3221 } #SWE: The Fate of the Livonian Order
		command = { type = trigger which = 3291 } #DAN: The Fate of the Livonian Order
		command = { type = trigger which = 3408 } #RUS: The Fate of the Livonian Order
	}
	action_c = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME3620C" #Die-Hard Independence
		command = { type = stability value = -3 }
		command = { type = treasury value = -500 }
		command = { type = religion which = catholic }
		command = { type = domestic which = ARISTOCRACY value = 3 }
		command = { type = domestic which = INNOVATIVE value = -3 }
		command = { type = domestic which = SERFDOM value = 3 }
		command = { type = trigger which = 3472 } #POL: The Fate of the Livonian Order
		command = { type = trigger which = 3222 } #SWE: The Fate of the Livonian Order
		command = { type = trigger which = 3292 } #DAN: The Fate of the Livonian Order
		command = { type = trigger which = 3409 } #RUS: The Fate of the Livonian Order
	}
}

one change to free Pomerania if it is own by Livonian Order
 

unmerged(40707)

Just call me Yoda in private!
Mar 1, 2005
20.187
2
Livonian Order can turn Protestant if the state survives (i.e. secularization if no Livonian War). AI will switch as soon as possible in this case.

We could then have two options for the twin event (if Kurland province is not owned):
die hard independence, current action_c
another option: secularization as Protestant country


Only real problem is ownership of Kurland province in order to become Courland and possible CTD with current version of LIV_3620. Otherwise we don't have the choice for the name of the country and the location of its capital but AI will turn Protestant for sure.
*bump*

Anyway, LIV_40132 is already an answer for a victorious Catholic Livonian Order.

In the meantime, fixed trigger for LIV_3620:
Code:
#(1560-1590) The Fate of the Livonian Order
#Raudex-EEP version
event = {
	id = 3620
	trigger = {
		exists = POL
		exists = SWE
		exists = DAN
		exists = RUS
		atwar = no
		NOT = { exists = KUR }
		[COLOR="Yellow"]owned = { province = 283 data = -1 } #Kurland
		control = { province = 283 data = -1 } #Kurland
		NOT = {
			AND = {
				owned = { province = 282 data = -1 } #Livland
				owned = { province = 283 data = -1 } #Kurland
				owned = { province = 276 data = -1 } #Estland
				owned = { province = 275 data = -1 } #Ingermanland
				religion = catholic
			}
		}[/COLOR]
	}
Finally, LIV_3620 should sleep LIV_40132 in all actions except C and LIV_3620 can happen even after LIV_40132.
 
Last edited:

Toio

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as per bug list discussion.

IMO, the game is currently balanced, in regards that the Poles do not head west early and destroy, POM, STT, BRA, HAN etc etc too early because of the early acquisition of kustrin.
I think my changes might make the sale come later . ( untested)

#(1419-1500) Sale of Neumark
event = {
id = 209000
trigger = {
owned = { province = 313 data = LAT } #Küstrin
NOT = { war = { country = BRA country = LAT } }
war = { country = POL country = LAT }
control = { province = 313 data = POL } #Küstrin
OR = {
NOT = { control = { province = 289 data = LAT } } #Memel
NOT = { control = { province = 290 data = LAT } } #Prussia
NOT = { control = { province = 301 data = LAT } } #Danzig
NOT = { control = { province = 313 data = LAT } } #Küstrin

}
NOT = { countrysize = 8 } #Should obviously not happen to a very powerful Order
}
random = no
country = LAT
name = "EVENTNAME209000" #Sale of Neumark
desc = "EVENTHIST209000"
#-#The Neumark, originally the part of Brandenburg east of the Oder river, had been mortgaged to the Teutonic Order by Emperor Sigismund in 1402. In the desperate financial, political and military situation caused by the uprising of the Prussian Lizard League and the intervention of Casimir of Poland in favour of the rebels, the Order decided it would be better to sell Neumark back to the Elector of Brandenburg in order to gain some money and his support than to loose the territory to the Polish King who was obviously attracted by the opportunity to restore the Oder as border with Germany. Thus on February 22nd emissaries of the Order offered the territory to Friedrich II for 40000 Gulden. The elector accepted gladly and on April 5th took the oaths of allegiance from the estates of Neumark in Neu-Landsberg.

date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1419 }
offset = 10
deathdate = { day = 29 month = december year = 1500 }

action_a = {
name = "ACTIONNAME209000A" #Offer Neumark to Brandenburg
command = { type = trigger which = 132101 } #BRA: Acquisition of Neumark
}
action_b = {
name = "ACTIONNAME209000B" #Keep Neumark
command = { type = revolt which = 313 } #Küstrin
command = { type = relation which = BRA value = -50 }
}
}
 

Twoflower

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This looks fine; it should make sure that the event happens only when the Teutons really are losing a war - and haven't just lost control of one province, which doesn't have to mean all too much (especially Küstrin can quite easily be lost while they're beating Poland's armies in East Prussia).
 

Toio

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This looks fine; it should make sure that the event happens only when the Teutons really are losing a war - and haven't just lost control of one province, which doesn't have to mean all too much (especially Küstrin can quite easily be lost while they're beating Poland's armies in East Prussia).

thanks for advice, but after some testing ( 4 games) I am unsure as Kustrin was never lost by the teutons, and when it lost it was the rebels that relieved it quickly back to the teutons, the war dragged on a bit too long.

so, in summary.....i am unsure my changes are what is needed.

I still feel , letting it fall to POL more often than not is bad for northern germany
 

Twoflower

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Oh, I just realized I misread the code :eek:o Actually, I would have favoured triggering it on Poland controlling Küstrin and the Teutons having lost control of one other of their core provinces, in order to make sure that they really are losing. Did the event really fail to trigger in your tests? In the games I've run so far (with the old event) the event would usually happen very early on. Remember that the sale historically happened only in 1454, so having it delayed a bit wouldn't be too bad. The important thing with this (as you pointed out) is making sure that Küstrin ends up owned by Brandenburg and not by Poland.
 

Toio

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Oh, I just realized I misread the code :eek:o Actually, I would have favoured triggering it on Poland controlling Küstrin and the Teutons having lost control of one other of their core provinces, in order to make sure that they really are losing. Did the event really fail to trigger in your tests? In the games I've run so far (with the old event) the event would usually happen very early on. Remember that the sale historically happened only in 1454, so having it delayed a bit wouldn't be too bad. The important thing with this (as you pointed out) is making sure that Küstrin ends up owned by Brandenburg and not by Poland.

The event never failed to give kustrin to BRA early as per original event, but my discussion was on my changes, as I fail to see why the event failed to fire even though POL had control of kustrin. anyhow as stated , rebels returned the province back to the teutons.

we agree on the end result, but I cannot see how we can force the sale later than what occurs now.
 

Toio

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replacing post 93

below is my fix
Code:
event = {
	id = 209000
	trigger = {
		owned = { province = 313 data = LAT } #Küstrin
		NOT = { war = { country = BRA country = LAT } }
		war = { country = POL country = LAT }
		[COLOR="Yellow"]control = { province = 313 data = POL }  #Küstrin[/COLOR]
		NOT = { countrysize = 8 } #Should obviously not happen to a very powerful Order
		[COLOR="Yellow"]AND = {
			OR = {
				control = { province = 301 data = POL } #Danzig
				}
			OR = {
				control = { province = 289 data = POL } #Memel
				}
			OR = {
				control = { province = 290 data = POL } #Prussia
				}[/COLOR]
		}
	}
	random = no
	country = LAT
	name = "EVENTNAME209000" #Sale of Neumark
	desc = "EVENTHIST209000"
	#-#The Neumark, originally the part of Brandenburg east of the Oder river, had been mortgaged to the Teutonic Order by Emperor Sigismund in 1402. In the desperate financial, political and military situation caused by the uprising of the Prussian Lizard League and the intervention of Casimir of Poland in favour of the rebels, the Order decided it would be better to sell Neumark back to the Elector of Brandenburg in order to gain some money and his support than to loose the territory to the Polish King who was obviously attracted by the opportunity to restore the Oder as border with Germany. Thus on February 22nd emissaries of the Order offered the territory to Friedrich II for 40000 Gulden. The elector accepted gladly and on April 5th took the oaths of allegiance from the estates of Neumark in Neu-Landsberg.

	date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1419 }
	offset = 10
	deathdate = { day = 29 month = december year = 1500 }

	action_a = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME209000A" #Offer Neumark to Brandenburg
		command = { type = trigger which = 132101 } #BRA: Acquisition of Neumark
	}
	action_b = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME209000B" #Keep Neumark
		command = { type = revolt which = 313 } #Küstrin
		command = { type = relation which = BRA value = -50 }
	}
}
 
Last edited:
May 6, 2004
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Can't agree to the arguments that separate Livonians from TO as well. Historically it was one Teutonic order state after all, which Included the Livonian Sword Brothers (The latter not beeing separated in geographical and administrative terms in the sources I checked so far). Politically it makes sense indeed to count them as one entity just to represent the TO state beeing one amalgamated territorial object. This is what I think
 

Twoflower

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Can't agree to the arguments that separate Livonians from TO as well. Historically it was one Teutonic order state after all, which Included the Livonian Sword Brothers (The latter not beeing separated in geographical and administrative terms in the sources I checked so far). Politically it makes sense indeed to count them as one entity just to represent the TO state beeing one amalgamated territorial object. This is what I think
Well, this has been a matter of discussion and disagreement probably ever since EU2 was released (or at least since people have been working on mods).
It is certainly true that the Teutonic Order had a common administrative structure, and that the Landmeister of Livland was subject to the Hochmeister and Landmeister of Prussia (those two offices were united after 1324), however the Order always maintained Livonia and Prussia as separate entities, with different Landmeisters who often followed different policies and eventually went their separate ways. After the Second Peace of Thorn, when the Hochmeister had to pledge allegiance to the King of Poland for the Prussian territories, there was quite a clear difference between Prussia, which was part of the Kingdom of Poland, and Livonia, which was not.
Also, the political structure of the territories was quite distinct. While in Prussia, the Order ruled almost solely, in Livonia it had to share authority with the Archbishop of Riga and the Livonian cities who enjoyed a significant deal more autonomy than their Prussian counterparts. In 1419, these three parties established the Livonian diet as some kind of central authority in Livonia (look e.g. at this, which I wouldn't consider entirely authoritative - for starters, the author fails to point out at any point what kind of entity the "Livonian Confederation" was and when it was founded -, but still provides an interesting overview). So yes, there were significant political differences between Prussia and Livonia that justify separating them.

I generally think that the AGCEEP's current depiction - the Livonian Order being an independent vassal of the Teutonic Order - is quite accurate; the only real problem about this is when the Livonian Order breaks the vassalage, which really couldn't have happened so easily - but this is a problem with the representation of almost any feudal or quasi-feudal relationship in EU2.

I think one change that might be worth contemplation, however, is a cosmetic one. Calling the Prussian branch of the Teutonic Order is somewhat misleading, since the Teutonic Order was present in both Livonia and Prussia, and the current naming in a way implies the Livonian Order being something different from the Teutonic Order. As an easy solution, it might be good to rename the Teutonic Order (LAT) to "Prussian Order".
Also, as mentioned above, Livonia was not ruled solely by the Livonian branch of the Teutonic Order; there was a complicated power structure including the Order, the Archbishop of Riga, several minor bishoprics (which were usually, but not always occupied by members of the Order) and the cities, so in fact, it might be questionable whether having the country represent just the Livonian Order is really accurate.
 
Last edited: