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    Real Strategy Requires Cunning

unmerged(54293)

Second Lieutenant
Feb 25, 2006
130
0
The Order's monarchlist, still in vanilla form, is messed up a bit - one grandmaster is missing and there are several spelling mistakes. Worst, however, is that it does not contain the historical grandmasters after Albrecht of Brandenburg and his secularization of the Teutonic Order's lands.

That's why I compiled an updated list. There are two remaining issues which should be discussed: First, while German sources give the names of certain grandmasters with the land of their origion (e.g. "of Brandenburg-Ansbach", "of Österreich"), other languages tend to use dynasties instead (e.g. "of Hohenzollern", "of Habsburg"). I think we could go either way, but it should be uniform. Second, the problem of Albrecht of Brandenburg-Ansbach/Hohenzollern. If a player decides not to secularize and stay as the order, Albrecht would not be deposed as grandmaster in 1525 and could - most likely - rule until his death in 1568. Therefore, two historical grandmasters between 1525 and 1568 have to be skipped from the list. I think this can not be avoided, as there was no reason for Albrecht to abdicate in 1525 if he chose not to convert to Protestantism.

So, finally, here is the list.

Code:
# Teutonic Order #

# Grandmasters of the Teutonic Order. Original by Paradox, enhanced by Todor. #

historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 075500 }
	name = "Michael Küchmeister von Sternberg"
              startdate = {
		year = 1414
	}
	deathdate = {
		day = 10
		month = march
		year = 1422
	}
	DIP = 5
	ADM = 4
	MIL = 5
	dormant = no
}
historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 075501 }
	name = "Paul von Rusdorf"
              startdate = {
		day = 10
		month = march
		year = 1422
	}
	deathdate = {
		day = 2
		month = january
		year = 1441
	}
	DIP = 5
	ADM = 5
	MIL = 6
	dormant = no
}
historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 075502 }
              name = "Konrad von Erlichshausen"
	startdate = {
		day = 2
		month = january
		year = 1441
	}
	deathdate = {
		day = 7
		month = november
		year = 1449
	}
	DIP = 5
	ADM = 6
	MIL = 6
	dormant = no
}
historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 075503 }
              name = "Ludwig von Erlichshausen"
	startdate = {
		day = 7
		month = november
		year = 1449
	}
	deathdate = {
		day = 4
		month = april
		year = 1467
	}
	DIP = 2
	ADM = 2
	MIL = 2
	dormant = no
}
historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 075504 }
              name = "Heinrich Reuß von Plauen"
	startdate = {
		day = 4
		month = april
		year = 1467
	}
	deathdate = {
		day = 2
		month = january
		year = 1470
	}
	DIP = 6
	ADM = 5
	MIL = 5
	dormant = no
}
historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 075505 }
              name = "Heinrich Reffle von Richtenberg"
	startdate = {
		day = 2
		month = january
		year = 1470
	}
	deathdate = {
		day = 4
		month = august
		year = 1477
	}
	DIP = 5
	ADM = 5
	MIL = 5
	dormant = no
}
historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 075506 }
              name = "Martin Truchseß von Wetzhausen"
	startdate = {
		day = 4
		month = august
		year = 1477
	}
	deathdate = {
		day = 3
		month = january
		year = 1489
	}
	DIP = 5
	ADM = 5
	MIL = 6
	dormant = no
}
historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 075507 }
              name = "Johann von Tiefen"
	startdate = {
		day = 3
		month = january
		year = 1489
	}
	deathdate = {
		day = 25
		month = august
		year = 1497
	}
	DIP = 4
	ADM = 4
	MIL = 3
	dormant = no
}
historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 075508 }
              name = "Friedrich von Wettin"
	startdate = {
		day = 25
		month = august
		year = 1497
	}
	deathdate = {
		day = 14
		month = december
		year = 1510
	}
	DIP = 5
	ADM = 4
	MIL = 5
        dormant = no
}
historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 075509 }
              name = "Albrecht von Hohenzollern"
	startdate = {
		day = 14
		month = december
		year = 1510
	}
	deathdate = {
		day = 20
		month = march
		year = 1568
	}
        DIP = 7
	ADM = 5
        MIL = 5
        dormant = no
        remark = "Had Albrecht not decided to convert to Protestantism and secularize the Order's lands, he could have ruled 
as Grandmaster until his death in 1568."
}
historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 075510 }
              name = "Georg Hundt von Weckheim"
	startdate = {
		day = 20
		month = march
		year = 1568
	}
	deathdate = {
		day = 17
		month = march
		year = 1572
	}
	DIP = 4
	ADM = 5
	MIL = 4
        dormant = no
}
historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 075511 }
              name = "Heinrich von Bobenhausen"
	startdate = {
		day = 17
		month = march
		year = 1572
	}
	deathdate = {
		year = 1590
	}
	DIP = 4
	ADM = 4
	MIL = 5
        dormant = no
}
historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 075512 }
              name = "Maximilian von Habsburg"
	startdate = {
		year = 1590
	}
	deathdate = {
		day = 2
		month = november
		year = 1618
	}
	DIP = 5
	ADM = 6
	MIL = 3
        dormant = no
}
historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 075513 }
              name = "Karl von Habsburg"
	startdate = {
		day = 2
		month = november
		year = 1618
	}
	deathdate = {
		day = 28
		month = december
		year = 1624
	}
	DIP = 4
	ADM = 5
	MIL = 4
        dormant = no
}
historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 075514 }
              name = "Johann Eustach von Westernach"
	startdate = {
		day = 28
		month = december
		year = 1624
	}
	deathdate = {
		day = 25
		month = october
		year = 1627
	}
	DIP = 4
	ADM = 4
	MIL = 4
        dormant = no
}
historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 075515 }
              name = "Johann Kaspar von Stadion"
	startdate = {
		day = 25
		month = october
		year = 1627
	}
	deathdate = {
		day = 21
		month = november
		year = 1641
	}
	DIP = 5
	ADM = 5
	MIL = 5
        dormant = no
}
historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 075516 }
              name = "Leopold Wilhelm von Habsburg"
	startdate = {
		day = 21
		month = november
		year = 1641
	}
	deathdate = { 
                day = 20
                month = november
                year = 1662 
        }
        DIP = 7
	ADM = 5
        MIL = 7
        dormant = no
}
historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 075517 }
              name = "Karl Joseph von Habsburg"
	startdate = {
		day = 20
		month = november
		year = 1662
	}
	deathdate = { 
                day = 27
                month = january
                year = 1664 
        }
        DIP = 2
	ADM = 2
        MIL = 2
        dormant = no
        remark = "Died as a youth, could not fulfill his duties."
}
historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 075518 }
              name = "Johann Caspar von Ampringen"
	startdate = {
		day = 27
		month = january
		year = 1664
	}
	deathdate = { 
                day = 9
                month = september
                year = 1684 
        }
        DIP = 4
	ADM = 6
        MIL = 3 
        dormant = no
}
historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 075519 }
              name = "Ludwig Anton von Pfalz-Neuburg"
	startdate = {
		day = 9
		month = september
		year = 1684
	}
	deathdate = { 
                day = 4
                month = may
                year = 1694 
        }
        DIP = 5
	ADM = 6
        MIL = 4 
        dormant = no
}
historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 075520 }
              name = "Franz Ludwig von Pfalz-Neuburg"
	startdate = {
		day = 4
		month = may
		year = 1694
	}
	deathdate = { 
                day = 6
                month = april
                year = 1732 
        }
        DIP = 5
	ADM = 9 # Implemented extensive administrative and judicial reforms.
        MIL = 5 
        dormant = no
}
historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 075521 }
              name = "Klemens August von Wittelsbach"
        startdate = {
		day = 6
		month = april
		year = 1732
	}
	deathdate = {
		day = 6
		month = february
		year = 1761
	}
	DIP = 4
	ADM = 7
	MIL = 4
        dormant = no
        remark = "Also Elector-Archbishop of Köln, id = 070015."
}
historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 075522 }
              name = "Karl Alexander von Lothringen" 
        startdate = {
		day = 6
		month = february
		year = 1761
	}
	deathdate = {
		day = 4
		month = july
		year = 1780
	}
	DIP = 4
	ADM = 7 # Successful governor of the Low Countries.
	MIL = 4
        dormant = no
}
historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 075523 }
              name = "Maximilian Franz von Habsburg" 
        startdate = {
		day = 4
		month = july
		year = 1780
	}
	deathdate = {
		day = 26
		month = july
		year = 1801
	}
	DIP = 5
	ADM = 5 
	MIL = 2
        dormant = no
}
historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 075524 }
              name = "Karl Ludwig von Habsburg" 
        startdate = {
		day = 26
		month = july
		year = 1801
	}
	deathdate = {
		year = 1804 # Resigned.
	}
	DIP = 4
	ADM = 4 
	MIL = 7 # Won against Napoleon at Aspern.
        dormant = no
}
historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 075525 }
              name = "Anton Victor von Habsburg" 
        startdate = {
		year = 1804
	}
	deathdate = {
		year = 1835
	}
	DIP = 4
	ADM = 5 
	MIL = 4 
        dormant = no
}

#First free id: 075526
 
Last edited:

sabular

Major
60 Badges
Mar 7, 2005
583
0
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Todor said:
There are two remaining issues which should be discussed: First, while German sources give the names of certain grandmasters with the land of their origion (e.g. "of Brandenburg-Ansbach", "of Österreich"), other languages tend to use dynasties instead (e.g. "of Hohenzollern", "of Habsburg"). I think we could go either way, but it should be uniform.

My personal preference would be to use dynasty instead of land of origin, it just sounds better and feels more historical (though seeing as german sources use land of origin, that is probably simply my personal feeling)

Todor said:
Second, the problem of Albrecht of Brandenburg-Ansbach/Hohenzollern. If a player decides not to secularize and stay as the order, Albrecht would not be deposed as grandmaster in 1525 and could - most likely - rule until his death in 1568. Therefore, two historical grandmasters between 1525 and 1568 have to be skipped from the list. I think this can not be avoided, as there was no reason for Albrecht to abdicate in 1525 if he chose not to convert to Protestantism.

On this I am somewhat divided: on the one hand your argument certainly makes sense; but on the other hand we really don't know who would have become the succesive grandmasters of a non-secularized and still landed teutonic order thus we just use the historic ones which should include the two eclipsed/overlapped by Albrecht.

on second thought, your proposal is probably the best compromise between just using the historical grandmasters and making up an entire new list of "more plausible ahistoric grandmasters"
 

unmerged(54293)

Second Lieutenant
Feb 25, 2006
130
0
Thanks for your help. The list is updated accordingly (note that "von Lothringen" and "von Pfalz-Neuburg" are also dynasties, I could not come up with something else).
 

unmerged(54293)

Second Lieutenant
Feb 25, 2006
130
0
Next, the Livonian Order. In the first step, a few spelling mistakes had to be corrected. Second, I decided to add some fantasy monarchs for the time after the Order's historical comedown in the 1560s, if someone (like me ;)) fancies playing the Livonians until 1819. For this purpose, I collected some actual existing Baltic nobles and German members of the Teutonic Order from a genealogical handbook and Wikipedia - personalities of whom It's remotely possible they could have been members of the Order in an alternate history.

Things changed in the first part:
Above all, I had to alter the names of the Grandmasters and make their dates of reign more precise. My sources were worldstatesmen.org and the standard scholarly work on the topic (in German): Lutz Fenske: Ritterbrüder im livländischen Zweig des Deutschen Ordens [Knights in the Livonian branch of the Teutonic order]. Cologne 1993. Ordinal numbers were left out as they are absolutely uncommon for Grandmasters. Changes in stats were minor, save Wolter von Plettenberg, who had been completely underrated in vanilla version.

The changes in detail:
  • 078000: "Siegried Lander von Spanheim" changed to "Siegfried Lander von Sponheim", specified his deathdate
  • 078001: "Cysse von Rutenberg" changed to "Cisse von dem Rutenberg", specified his deathdate
  • 078002: "Frank von Kersdorf" changed to "Frank Kirskorf", specified his deathdate
  • 078003: "Heinrich III von Buckenorde" changed to "Heinrich von Böckenförde", specified his deathdate
  • 078004: "Heinrich IV Vinke von Oberbergen" changed to "Heidenreich Vincke von Overberg", corrected his deathdate
  • 078005: "Johann I von Mengden" changed to "Johann von Mengede", raised his DIP from 5 to 6 because of diplomatic success, specified his deathdate
  • 078006: "Johann II Wolthusen von Heerse" changed to "Johann Waldhaus von Heerse", specified his deathdate
  • 078007: "Bernhard von dem Borch" changed to "Bernhard von der Borch", specified his deathdate
  • 078008: "Johann III Freitag von Loringhof" changed to "Johann Freitag von Loringhoven"
  • 078009: "Walther II von Plettenberg" changed to "Wolter von Plettenberg", raised his abilities distinctly as he was one of the most successfull grandmasters
  • 078010: "Hermann II Brugsenei" changed to "Hermann Brüggenei"
  • 078011: "Johann IV von der Recke" changed to "Johann von der Recke"
  • 078012: "Heinrich V von Galen" changed to "Heinrich von Galen", raised his ADM by 1 to reflect that he managed to hold the order together after the reformation
  • 078013: "Wilhelm III von Fürstenberg" changed to "Johann Wilhelm von Fürstenberg", lowered his abilities a bit as his reign is considered a failure
  • 078014: "Gotthard von Kettler" changed to "Gotthard Kettler", raised his DIP by 1 to reflect his skills in negotiating with the Polish king, extended his deathdate to his natural death (if the order is not secularized in 1562)


Here is my proposal:

Code:
# Livonian Order #

# Grandmasters of the Livonian Order. Original by Paradox, enhanced by Todor. #

historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 078000 }
        name = "Siegfried Lander von Sponheim"
	startdate = {
                     year = 1415
	}
	deathdate = {
                     day = 29  # 31th IRL
	             month = march 
                     year = 1424
	}	
	DIP = 4
	ADM = 4
	MIL = 5
	dormant = no
}
historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 078001 }
        name = "Cisse von dem Rutenberg"
	startdate = {
                     day = 29
                     month = march
		     year = 1424
	}
	deathdate = {
                     month = october
		     year = 1433
	}	
	DIP = 3
	ADM = 5
	MIL = 5
	dormant = no
}
historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 078002 }
        name = "Frank Kirskorf"
	startdate = {
                     month = october
		     year = 1433
	}
	deathdate = {
                     day = 1
                     month = september
		     year = 1435
	}	
	DIP = 4
	ADM = 4
	MIL = 5
	dormant = no
}
historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 078003 }
        name = "Heinrich von Böckenförde"
	startdate = {
                     day = 1
                     month = september 
		     year = 1435
	}
	deathdate = {
                     month = december
		     year = 1437
	}	
	DIP = 4
	ADM = 3
	MIL = 5
	dormant = no
}
historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 078004 }
        name = "Heidenreich Vincke von Overberg"
	startdate = {
                     month = december
		     year = 1437
	}
	deathdate = {
                     day = 29
		     month = june
		     year = 1450
	}	
	DIP = 6
	ADM = 5
	MIL = 5
	dormant = no
}
historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 078005 }
        name = "Johann von Mengede"
	startdate = {
	             day = 29
		     month = june
		     year = 1450
	}
	deathdate = {
                     day = 15
                     month = august 
		     year = 1469
	}	
	DIP = 6
	ADM = 5
	MIL = 5
	dormant = no
}
historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 078006 }
        name = "Johann Waldhaus von Heerse"
	startdate = {
                     day = 15
                     month = august
		     year = 1469
	}
	deathdate = {
                     month = october
		     year = 1471
	}	
	DIP = 5
	ADM = 7
	MIL = 5
	dormant = no
}
historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 078007 }
        name = "Bernhard von der Borch"
	startdate = {
                     month = october
		     year = 1471
	}
	deathdate = {
                     month = november
		     year = 1483
	}	
	DIP = 5
	ADM = 4
	MIL = 5
        dormant = no
}
historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 078008 }
	name = "Johann Freitag von Loringhoven"
	startdate = {
                     month = november
		     year = 1483
	}
	deathdate = {
                     day = 26
		     month = may
		     year = 1494
	}
	DIP = 5
        ADM = 6
	MIL = 4
        dormant = no
}
historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 078009 }
        name = "Wolter von Plettenberg"
	startdate = {
                     day = 26
		     month = may
		     year = 1494
	}
	deathdate = {
		     day = 28
		     month = february
		     year = 1535
	}	
	DIP = 8
	ADM = 7
	MIL = 8
        dormant = no
}
historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 078010 }
        name = "Hermann Brüggenei"
	startdate = {
	             day = 28
		     month = february
		     year = 1535
	}
	deathdate = {
                     day = 5
		     month = february
		     year = 1549
	}	
	DIP = 4
	ADM = 5
	MIL = 6
        dormant = no
}
historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 078011 }
        name = "Johann von der Recke"
	startdate = {
	             day = 5
		     month = february
		     year = 1549
	}
	deathdate = {
	             day = 18
		     month = may
		     year = 1551
        }	
	DIP = 4
	ADM = 5
	MIL = 5
        dormant = no
}
historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 078012 }
        name = "Heinrich von Galen"
	startdate = {
	             day = 18
		     month = may
		     year = 1551
	}
	deathdate = {
	             day = 29  # 30th IRL
		     month = may
		     year = 1557
	}	
	DIP = 4
	ADM = 6
	MIL = 5
        dormant = no
}
historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 078013 }
        name = "Johann Wilhelm von Fürstenberg"
	startdate = {
	             day = 29
		     month = may
		     year = 1557
	}
	deathdate = {
	            day = 17
		    month = september
		    year = 1559
	}	
	DIP = 3
	ADM = 4
	MIL = 3
        dormant = no
}
historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 078014 }
        name = "Gotthard Kettler"
	startdate = {
                     day = 17
		     month = september
		     year = 1559
	}
	deathdate = {
	             day = 17
		     month = may
		     year = 1587
	}	
	DIP = 6
	ADM = 6
	MIL = 5
        dormant = no
        remark = "Had the Order not lost its lands in 1562, Gotthard could have ruled as Grandmaster until his death in 1587."
}

# From 1587 on, fictional monarchs: Historical Baltic and German nobles, clergymen and members of the Teutonic Order. #

historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 078015 }
	name = "Wilhelm von Efferen *"
	startdate = {
	             day = 17
		     month = may
		     year = 1587
	}
	deathdate = { 
                     year = 1613 }
	DIP = 4
	ADM = 6
	MIL = 6
        dormant = no
        remark = "Komtur of the Livonian Order, later a high ranking official in the duchy of Courland."
}
historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 078016 }
        name = "Gottschalk Vincke *"
	startdate = {
	             year = 1613
	}
	deathdate = {
                     year = 1616
	}	
	DIP = 3
	ADM = 4
	MIL = 4
        dormant = no
        remark = "Knight of the Livonian Order, afterwards a member of the nobility of Courland."
}
historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 078017 }
        name = "Dietrich von Landsberg *"
	startdate = {
	             year = 1616
	}
	deathdate = {
	             year = 1623
	}	
	DIP = 6
	ADM = 5
	MIL = 5
        dormant = no
        remark = "Komtur of the Teutonic Order in Cologne, a nephew of the Livonian knight Wilhelm von Landsberg."
}
historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 078018 }
        name = "Mathias von der Recke *"
	startdate = {
	             year = 1623
	}
	deathdate = {
	             year = 1638
	}	
	DIP = 4
	ADM = 7
	MIL = 7
        dormant = no
        remark = "General and judge in the duchy of Courland, a son of the Livonian Komtur Mathias von der Recke (I)."
}
historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 078019 }
        name = "Magnus von Pahlen *"
	startdate = {
	             year = 1638
	}
	deathdate = {
	             year = 1646
	}	
	DIP = 4
	ADM = 3
	MIL = 5
        dormant = no
        remark = "Livonian Landrat and officer in the Swedish Army."
}
historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 078020 }
        name = "Otto von Mengden *"
	startdate = {
	             year = 1646
	}
	deathdate = {
	            year = 1670
	}	
	DIP = 7
	ADM = 8
	MIL = 4
        dormant = no
        remark = "Constituted the institutions of Livonian self-governance."
}
historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 078021 }
        name = "Christoph Bernhard von Galen *"
	startdate = {
	             year = 1670
	}
	deathdate = {
                     day = 19
                     month = september
		     year = 1678
	}	
	DIP = 8  
	ADM = 4
	MIL = 5
        dormant = no
        remark = "Prince-bishop of Münster, a son of the Erbmarschall of Courland, Dietrich von Galen."
}
historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 078022 }
        name = "Gustav Clodt von Jürgensburg *"
	startdate = {
                     day = 19
                     month = september
		     year = 1678
	}
	deathdate = {                            
	             year = 1682
	}	
	DIP = 4  
	ADM = 4
	MIL = 5
        dormant = no
        remark = "Livonian Landrat and officer in the Swedish Army."
}
historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 078023 }
        name = "Franz-Wilhelm von Fürstenberg *"
	startdate = {                            
	             year = 1682
	}
	deathdate = { 
                     day = 2
                     month = september                           
		     year = 1688
	}	
	DIP = 4  
	ADM = 7
	MIL = 4
        dormant = no
        remark = "Teutonic komtur of Westphalia, built the commandry of Mühlheim."
}
historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 078024 }
        name = "Thomas Nolde *"
	startdate = {
                     day = 2
                     month = september                           
		     year = 1688                            
	}
	deathdate = { 
                     day = 11
                     month = november                           
		     year = 1694
	}	
	DIP = 4  
	ADM = 4
	MIL = 7
        dormant = no
        remark = "Officer in the army of Courland."
}
historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 078025 }
        name = "Johann von Patkul *"
	startdate = { 
                     day = 11
                     month = november                           
		     year = 1694                           
	}
	deathdate = { 
                     day = 11                            
		     month = october
                     year = 1707
	}	
	DIP = 7  
	ADM = 5
	MIL = 5
        dormant = no
        remark = "Diplomat who promoted Livonian self-governance."
}
historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 078026 }
        name = "Georg Levin von Nagel *"
	startdate = {
                     day = 11                            
		     month = october
                     year = 1707                            		
	}
	deathdate = {                             
                     year = 1712
	}	
	DIP = 4  
	ADM = 2
	MIL = 4
        dormant = no
        remark = "Teutonic Komtur of Westphalia."
}
historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 078027 }
        name = "Georg Gustav von Rosen *"
	startdate = {                            
	             year = 1712
	}
	deathdate = {                             
                     year = 1714
	}	
	DIP = 1  
	ADM = 3
	MIL = 5
        dormant = no
        remark = "Baltic noble, soldier and notorious dueler."
}
historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 078028 }
        name = "Christian von Sachsen-Zeitz *"
	startdate = {                            
	             year = 1714
	}
	deathdate = { 
                     day = 23
                     month = august                            
                     year = 1725
	}	
	DIP = 6  
	ADM = 6
	MIL = 4
        dormant = no
        remark = "Noble from Saxony, a member of the Teutonic Order and bishop in Hungary."
}
historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 078029 }
        name = "Joachim von Vietinghoff *"
	startdate = {
                     day = 23
                     month = august                            
		     year = 1725
	}
	deathdate = {                                                       
                     year = 1731
	}	
	DIP = 4  
	ADM = 6
	MIL = 6
        dormant = no
        remark = "Landrat of Oesel."
}
historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 078030 }
        name = "Damian Hugo von Schönborn *"
	startdate = {                                                   
	             year = 1731
	}
	deathdate = { 
                     day = 19
                     month = august                                                      
                     year = 1743
	}	
	DIP = 5  
	ADM = 5
	MIL = 5
        dormant = no
        remark = "Prince-bishop of Speyer and member of the Teutonic Order."
}
historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 078031 }
        name = "Heinrich zur Mühlen *"
	startdate = {                            
	             day = 19
                     month = august                                                      
                     year = 1743
	}
	deathdate = { 
                     day = 6
                     month = october                            
                     year = 1750
	}	
	DIP = 6  
	ADM = 6
	MIL = 3
        dormant = no
        remark = "Baltic German noble and mayor of Reval from 1745."
}
historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 078032 }
        name = "Johann von der Osten-Sacken *"
	startdate = {
                     day = 6
                     month = october                            
		     year = 1750
	}
	deathdate = { 
                     day = 17
                     month = august                            
                     year = 1755
	}	
	DIP = 3  
	ADM = 3
	MIL = 5
        dormant = no
        remark = "Landrat and judge in Oesel."
}
historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 078033 }
        name = "Caspar Anton von Belderbusch *"
	startdate = {
                     day = 17
                     month = august                          
		     year = 1755
	}
	deathdate = { 
                     day = 2
                     month = january                            
                     year = 1784
	}	
	DIP = 8  
	ADM = 9
	MIL = 4
        dormant = no
        remark = "Confidant of the Grandmaster of the Teutonic Order and Prime Minister of Cologne."
}
historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 078034 }
        name = "Bernhard Heinrich Stryk *"
	startdate = {
                     day = 2
                     month = january                          
		     year = 1784
	}
	deathdate = { 
                     day = 24
                     month = february                            
                     year = 1787
	}	
	DIP = 3  
	ADM = 5
	MIL = 3
        dormant = no
        remark = "Judge in Livonia."
}
historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 078035 }
        name = "Jacob Johann von Sievers *"
	startdate = {
                     day = 24
                     month = february                          
		     year = 1787
	}
	deathdate = {                                                
                     year = 1801
	}	
	DIP = 8  
	ADM = 8
	MIL = 4
        dormant = no
        remark = "Russian diplomat and reformer of German Baltic descent."
}
historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 078036 }
        name = "Peter von der Pahlen *"
	startdate = {                                     
	             year = 1801
	}
	deathdate = {                                              
                     year = 1808
	}	
	DIP = 6  
	ADM = 4
	MIL = 6
        dormant = no
        remark = "Russian diplomat and general of German Baltic descent."
}
historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 078037 }
        name = "Ludwig von Vincke *"
	startdate = {                                     
	             year = 1808
	}
	deathdate = {                                              
                     year = 1844
	}	
	DIP = 5  
	ADM = 8
	MIL = 4
        dormant = no
        remark = "Prussian satesman and reformer."
}

#First free id: 078038
 
Last edited:

unmerged(40707)

Just call me Yoda in private!
Mar 1, 2005
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could you please show us in yellow modifications you made before 1560?

It will help a lot.
 

unmerged(54293)

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Feb 25, 2006
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Ah, I forgot. I added a list of the changes in detail instead.

For the names, they can be discussed of course, but I simply took what I found on "worldstatesmen" and the literature on this topic.
 

unmerged(40707)

Just call me Yoda in private!
Mar 1, 2005
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Is there a reason why capital of Livonian Order is in Livland in revolt.txt:
Code:
LIV = { #Livonian Order
	no = KUR
	revolt = no
	date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1419 }
	expirydate = { day = 29 month = december year = 1561 }
	minimum = { 282 }
	extra = { 281 283 276 275 }
	capital = 282
	group = latin
	culture = german
	#ai = "Teutons.ai"
	ai = "SmallTrade0.ai"
}
while capital of Livonian Order is in Kurland in 1419 and no change by events?

I found this very old post and here where setup in 1419 was for a capital in Livland (Riga).
 
Last edited:

Robmel

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YodaMaster said:
Is there a reason why capital of Livonian Order is in Livland in revolt.txt:
Historically the capital of Livonian Order was Wenden (modern Cēsis) in the Livland province. The Livonian confederation landtag (parliament) came together in Walk (Valka) or Wolmar (Valmiera) in the same Livland province.
 

unmerged(40707)

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Welcome and thanks for this long awaited answer. In this case, is there a reason for the capital to be in Kurland province in 1419? Or is it an error?
 

Robmel

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YodaMaster said:
Welcome and thanks for this long awaited answer. In this case, is there a reason for the capital to be in Kurland province in 1419? Or is it an error?
There is no reason for the capital to be in Kurland province in 1419, because Livonian order didn't any large towns there. Mitau (the future capital of Duchy of Kurland, now modern Jelgava) at that time was just a mere village with an order's castle. It received town rights only in 1573.

Also Wenden town was the approximate geographical center of Livonian order possesions and the forth largest town behind Riga, Revel, Dorpat.
 

Toio

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What would be the culture of livonian order then , german which in our game in those parts is Baltic, so if you change capital in to another province, then baltic should replace ugric

or have capital baltic , province ugric
 

unmerged(40707)

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Problem is just about capital location in 1419, not about culture and revolt.txt (see post #74, culture will be German if revolter and German + Baltic + Ugric in this order at start).
i'm not sure I understand the proposed change(s). Kurland province is Baltic and Livland province is Ugric. Where is the problem?