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Toio

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its now 1550,

HUN has faced 47 wars from 1419, and has only lost pressburg and banat.

HABS have DOW the last 40 years (8 times).

conclusion , HUN is invincible

nations that DOW HUN have wasted vast resources in cash

recommendation , unsure , is it quality,? their income is too high?

Any answers from the top modders??
 

joriandrake

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Toio said:
its now 1550,

HUN has faced 47 wars from 1419, and has only lost pressburg and banat.

HABS have DOW the last 40 years (8 times).

conclusion , HUN is invincible

nations that DOW HUN have wasted vast resources in cash

recommendation , unsure , is it quality,? their income is too high?

Any answers from the top modders??
I suggest that you play HUN yourself and not let AI make that, as I know the AI 'cheats' sometimes, no?
Try it on your own, and that without you moving DP sliders.
 

sabular

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jorian said:
I suggest that you play HUN yourself and not let AI make that, as I know the AI 'cheats' sometimes, no?
Try it on your own, and that without you moving DP sliders.

There are 2 kinds of AI cheats. The cheats all AI's do (depending on difficulty) as part of the normal game engine. These cheats are the same for HUN and the OE. The other would be AI specific events, to help the AI. There are however almost no such events in the AGCEEP, and none that I know of for HUN.

If Hungary only loses to the AI when it is played by a human and not when played by the AI, the setup is flawed. It should be the other way around, Hungary should have little chance to survive unless the player is somehow involved (either by playing Hungary himself or by weakening the OE through playing Byzantium or whatever)
 

Duc de Guise

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I followed the suggestions (AI & event changes + cores for HUN in Dalmatia not Istria)
I did 1 test only

Hungary lost Dalmatia to Venice, and in a second war Croatia
Ottomans didn't attack at all until 1431-2 when they attacked and annexed Candar
Hungay lost many troops to the Hussites so it is an explanation of these defeats

I know one test insn't sufficient but I think you're on a good path to solve the problem
anyway, I thought there was a specific AI set for Hungary :confused:
 

joriandrake

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Garbon said:
Not about Hungary, but is there anything we can do about the Ottos diploannexing Crimea? Beyond the history bit, it also causes problems as the Ottos keep basing their troops there, in my games.
lower relations?...not historical doh...maybe no vassal? just allies?
 

Toio

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Garbon said:
Not about Hungary, but is there anything we can do about the Ottos diploannexing Crimea? Beyond the history bit, it also causes problems as the Ottos keep basing their troops there, in my games.

the OE - crimea is the same problem as the SPA-POR ones. What did norre do about these?
 

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Two tests (upto 1531) on COWARD - which as far as I can tell is the default.

otto14jn.jpg


Hungary was annexed early in 1490 via the ahistorical choice. Ottos have a decent shape except for being blocked by the Safavids on entrance to Mams and diploannexed Crimea.


otto29nn.jpg


Again Hungary was annexed early via the ahistorical event choice (that's the 4th time in this thread that tests have shown that...). Ottomans still took a good core of their territories although Venice hampered them in the west. (at the time of this screen, they had just started in on the Mams)
 

Toio

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Garbon said:
Yea, perhaps we should re-think the vassaling via event if it frequently leads to them being annexed.

I call it relations creep , as it seems to come about quicker since the relations changes which where recently introduced.


-Maybe a doubling of all the negative relations in events ,might help.


or you can do something like this, :wacko:

event = {
id = 5555555
trigger = {
stability = 3
atwar = no
}
random = yes
name = bandits
desc = "ok"
#-# At the higher levels there were complaints about banditry or privateering occuring within or at the direction of a certain state.

action_a = {
name = "Escalate Complaint"
command = { type = relation which = -3 value = -50 }
command = { type = relation which = -2 value = -50 }
command = { type = relation which = -1 value = -50 }
}
}

:wacko: :wacko: :wacko:
 

Toio

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Garbon said:
Two tests (upto 1531) on COWARD - which as far as I can tell is the default.

otto14jn.jpg


Hungary was annexed early in 1490 via the ahistorical choice. Ottos have a decent shape except for being blocked by the Safavids on entrance to Mams and diploannexed Crimea.


otto29nn.jpg


Again Hungary was annexed early via the ahistorical event choice (that's the 4th time in this thread that tests have shown that...). Ottomans still took a good core of their territories although Venice hampered them in the west. (at the time of this screen, they had just started in on the Mams)


Did you apply any of Norre recommendsations??


Can you let me know about BUR, did they get to 1517 before being annexed by SPA??
 

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Toio said:
Did you apply any of Norre recommendsations??

No, none of the reccomendations were applied in these two tests.


Toio said:
Can you let me know about BUR, did they get to 1517 before being annexed by SPA??

Yes, in one test, Spain got a Burgundy that included Ile De France, Picardie, & Calais. :eek:

In the second one, Spain got the Lowlands, minus Zeeland which was held by Cleves.
 

joriandrake

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Garbon said:
Two tests (upto 1531) on COWARD - which as far as I can tell is the default.

otto14jn.jpg


Hungary was annexed early in 1490 via the ahistorical choice. Ottos have a decent shape except for being blocked by the Safavids on entrance to Mams and diploannexed Crimea.


otto29nn.jpg


Again Hungary was annexed early via the ahistorical event choice (that's the 4th time in this thread that tests have shown that...). Ottomans still took a good core of their territories although Venice hampered them in the west. (at the time of this screen, they had just started in on the Mams)
that ahistorical annex fires too often no?
what chances are there for it?
 

Garbon

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jorian said:
that ahistorical annex fires too often no?
what chances are there for it?

Looking at the event file, it just has to be random error. It is only a choice b in a 3 choice event that allows for the ahistorical annexation.
 

unmerged(29041)

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The Ottos need to win their wars consistently at the beginning of the game. It is crucial for them because a couple of lost wars can push them back 50 years easily. If they lose several wars they can be hampered forever. This cannot be fixed by events or by changing their relations with other nations.
Another handicap in the game is the allies. While Hungary can have several strong nations to ally, the usual allies of the Ottos suck big time, and bad allies can make you lose your wars by conceding warscore to your enemies. When the Ottos get a good ally it works against them, because it is usually a strong Ak Koyunlu that blocks their path south for a long time.
Recomendation:
1) Make the Balkans poorer and with lower manpower (Serbia, Hungary, Bosnia, Albania, Croatia). They all have to die and they should also be a liability for the Ottos once taken.
2) Make the initial DPs of the ottos really good (offensive and land especially), and reduce later by event that has a size trigger.
3) Give them a big boost in land technology. It can also be reduced by events with a size trigger
4) make them defender of the faith at the beginning. It is historically consistent and it will help with the initial wars. They are bound to lose it in a few years.
5) Reduce their bbs if AI. These prevents gang attacks which are a likely cause of Otto failure.
6) Make events for sunni neighbors that sink their relations to the ottos. The Ottos had no friends, and they need to expand in all directions. So if you hold a core of the Ottos and you are sunni, then you should be in very bad terms with them.

Helping them in the first decades will have a snowball effect
 

Toio

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the problem child is HUN, the OE with base set at 7.0 for the first 80 years is required.

i already explained why things happen which hamper the OE, that is wallachia should not get annexed by HUN in the first SER-OE war.

- boost army of WALL to 20000, tested 30000 and they dominate with 30000.

- During the revolts of the 1440 , HUN quality (-1) should be lowered to reflect the loss of veterans.

- the land.ai for HUN , sucks big time, its crap. i am experimenting with using peaceful.ai from vanilla, will let you know.

- the ai for major nations (ie HUN) that have NO combat list are causing these nations to look for easy targets. my latest game has HUN annexing, holstein, mecklenburg and bergen, . get a historical combat list for all nations of sizeable note.

- I have use the vanilla burgundy one for BUR and there is a marked improved instead of the land.ai one.

lastly, before doing any other changes, why is the warscore so pathetic in this version??
 

unmerged(48371)

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Fodoron said:
The Ottos need to win their wars consistently at the beginning of the game. It is crucial for them because a couple of lost wars can push them back 50 years easily. If they lose several wars they can be hampered forever. This cannot be fixed by events or by changing their relations with other nations.
Another handicap in the game is the allies. While Hungary can have several strong nations to ally, the usual allies of the Ottos suck big time, and bad allies can make you lose your wars by conceding warscore to your enemies. When the Ottos get a good ally it works against them, because it is usually a strong Ak Koyunlu that blocks their path south for a long time.
Recomendation:
1) Make the Balkans poorer and with lower manpower (Serbia, Hungary, Bosnia, Albania, Croatia). They all have to die and they should also be a liability for the Ottos once taken.
2) Make the initial DPs of the ottos really good (offensive and land especially), and reduce later by event that has a size trigger.
3) Give them a big boost in land technology. It can also be reduced by events with a size trigger
4) make them defender of the faith at the beginning. It is historically consistent and it will help with the initial wars. They are bound to lose it in a few years.
5) Reduce their bbs if AI. These prevents gang attacks which are a likely cause of Otto failure.
6) Make events for sunni neighbors that sink their relations to the ottos. The Ottos had no friends, and they need to expand in all directions. So if you hold a core of the Ottos and you are sunni, then you should be in very bad terms with them.

Helping them in the first decades will have a snowball effect


1) i don't think it's a good idea because, when they will be conquests, they'll be useless, they're already poor, less manpower, will be ok, when you see hungary armies, making 20/30000 soldiers a year, they're quantity not quality, but that's a lot of soldiers !!!

2) they already got good offensive, but cshould be boost in land from 1 or 2 points

3) the events "reformation of the army" are too poor giving points 1000 is not enough, should be 3000 points at least, those events must be an advantage, but seems useless due to the poor points assigned.

4) seems cool, but can => too much non core annexed land => rising BB
that's what OTT don't need

5) for AI and Human, cause lots of land with only one province to annex, too much BB. I was proposing on french forum, everytime a conquest event ("bayezid conquest" etc), reducing ottoman BB by 2 + 1/2 of the new cores ( 6 new cores added for a conquest event => 5 BB less [2 + {6/2}]), but seems too much to everybody, i do try that system, and in middle 1500's, i got all my cores exept algerian ones, and my BB was about 15/20, so i guess, it can work with that proposition

6) candar should begin as vassal and have +200 relation with OTT, but the other muslims may hate OTT, and by hating them they can declare war to them => annexion for OTT with very low BB level (as they're not the attaquant)

7) your events of Janissary are too strong, the loosing of factories and the decreasing of inovate, really really sucks.

8) is an AI event for automaticaly annexion of Mameluks running already ?
 

unmerged(40707)

Just call me Yoda in private!
Mar 1, 2005
20.187
5
About question 8), yes, the event is:
Code:
#The Sultan become 'Khalifa'#
event = {
	id = 3371
	trigger = {
		control = { province = 746 data = TUR }
		ai = yes
	}
	random = no
	country = TUR
	name = "EVENTNAME3371" #The Sultan become 'Khalifa'
	desc = "EVENTHIST3371"
	#-#

	date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1510 }
	offset = 30
	deathdate = { year = 1820 }

	action_a = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME3371A" #Assume the title of Caliph
		command = { type = inherit which = MAM }
		command = { type = vassal which = ARA }
		command = { type = relation which = ARA value = 50 }
		command = { type = relation which = ALD value = 50 }
		command = { type = relation which = MOR value = 50 }
		command = { type = relation which = TRI value = 50 }
		command = { type = relation which = ADE value = 50 }
		command = { type = relation which = OMA value = 50 }
		command = { type = relation which = MOG value = 50 }
		command = { type = relation which = DLH value = 50 }
	}
}
EVENTHIST3371: Following the spectacularly successful Mameluk campaign, Sultan Selim I brought the last of the Abbasid caliphs to Istanbul as his 'guest'. The title of Caliph was then transferred to the House of Osman. Henceforth Ottoman monarchs were also the spiritual leaders of all Sunni Muslims.

But this is not "automatic", OE must be at war and control the capital 746 (Egypt).