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Gort11

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So, we know that Japan has a national focus to represent its good torpedoes (a result of actually testing the damn things) - but will the USA have something to represent how terrible the Mark 14 torpedo was? It really beggars belief that they took those things to war untested in the first place.
 
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I think this is too small in scope to realisticly represent in the game.
Variant system will be able to deal with this in an abstract way. If you want good torpedoes, build your DDs/Subs with points on the sea attack value.
 
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panzerzombie

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Is that so? How many German and British submarines sank themselves with their own torpedoes?

I don´t know about the Brits but a few german subs had "Kreisläufer" and sunk themselves, but the early torps had problems with unreliable magnetpistol-detonators .

edit: Yes, at least 3 german subs sank from their own torps.
 
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If the 3 countries in question begin the game with a national Modifier ( like the german "bitter loser" or the finish "sisu" ) then you begin with bad torpedoes and could remove the malus with a focus.
 
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Daddl

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The german torpedoes up until 1941 were horrible as well. In the invasion of Norway in 1940, from a few dozen torpedoes fired from excellent positions, only a single one damaged its target. German wikipedia says "...with functioning torpedoes, there would have been hits on at least one battleship, seven cruisers, seven destroyers and several transports."
 
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LordOfWar16

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They could quiet easiely reflect that with an national focus. Overall, the japanese have the "Long Lance Torpedo" National Spirit which buffs their torpedos. The same could be done for the US as an slight debuff, with an national focus to remove that in the naval branch.

The US torpedos were extremely unrelieable, yes. With that said of course all nations had issues with their torpedos, while the japanese had an edge. The US Mark 14 were much worse tho, at times not a single of the torpedoes of an submarine even hit or detonated on impact. The issue there was that the torpedoes pretty much always went too deep aswell as not being very accurate. Submarines sinking themself isnt an issue exlusive to the UK tho, the UK and Germany had similar accidents.

The US Military even refused to admit that there was an problem with the mark 14 initially and blamed the submarine commanders that complained about them. It is an problem that is big enough to justify its existance in the game in my oppinion, especially if thei japanese get an buff for their long lance ones the US should get an slight debuff for their mark 14 ones untill they are fixed by the national focus. That would even reflect that the US Military initially didnt react to the problem. An permanent unremoveable debuff would be an very bad approach.
 
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Alliegorical

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USA werent only major nation with highly unreliable torpedoes - Germany and UK had similar problems.
Germany and UK had serious problems, but nothing like the problems the US had. Literally everything was wrong with those torpedoes that could possibly be wrong.

I'd represent this in game by giving the US a stiff penalty until a national focus is unlocked (which requires bring at war to begin)
 
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krieger11b

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I think this is too small in scope to realisticly represent in the game.
Variant system will be able to deal with this in an abstract way. If you want good torpedoes, build your DDs/Subs with points on the sea attack value.
I think a 70% dud/running too deep for US torpedoes is not small in scope, all the way into 1943.

Is that so? How many German and British submarines sank themselves with their own torpedoes?
At least 1 US Submarine sunk itself with it's own torpedo immediately running a circle after launch, some of the crew survived so its a 100% certain case.
 
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Alex_brunius

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Maybe it could be modded to a technology requiring you to be at war ( if such a trigger exists )?

This means Japan can get it early during their war with China, but everyone else needs to wait until they are at war.
 
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Gort11

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Do we have more information on British torpedoes? Did they suffer the same problems? I know Dutch submarines used British torpedoes and were considered to not have anywhere near the problems the US subs in the same theatres suffered.
 
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Do we have more information on British torpedoes? Did they suffer the same problems? I know Dutch submarines used British torpedoes and were considered to not have anywhere near the problems the US subs in the same theatres suffered.
They were imperfect, but nowhere near the level of derp the US had. Japan had the very best.
 
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I think a 70% dud/running too deep for US torpedoes is not small in scope, all the way into 1943.

Just as long as it isn't some arbitrary time requirement. If I launch a vigorous torpedo-testing program (in-game equivalent) in 1936, the US isn't going to have torpedo problems into 1943.
 
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EntropyAvatar

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Just as long as it isn't some arbitrary time requirement. If I launch a vigorous torpedo-testing program (in-game equivalent) in 1936, the US isn't going to have torpedo problems into 1943.

As others have mentioned, a national focus would be a good way to model the "cutting through the BS" that would be needed to ensure proper testing.
 

Denkt

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Well Japan will get a focus (long lance torpedo) which give them better torpedoes. Well a similar national focus that remove penalty for US could nerf them a bit (other nations such as France seems to be worse of but we have to see if US need a nerf like that or not.
 
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.badner

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Maybe the devs can add a late war tech, drastically increasing torpedo damage. Japan could have it unlocked at the beginning of the campaign and the other nations need to decide wether it's worth to research it in the beginning of the war or later.
 
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