Terrain & Siege

[We Who Are About 2 Die]

Terrain, Elevation & Climate
I believe we are in a good place to introduce more complicated terrain configuration. Allowing for terrain combinations instead of our current EU4 simplified terrain. Mountains and hills do not mean there is an absence of forest (mountain peaks and extreme high mountain ranges are generally more barren). All farmland denotes is fertility and that land had been cleared, not the type of elevation.

Four Factors

Climate: Tropical, Temperate, Arid, Subartic
Elevation: Mountain, Hill, Cliff*, Plateau, Plain, Below Sea-Level, Canyon
*if a cliff is on the coast you cannot disembark troops from sea
Landform: Forest, Jungle, Marsh, Beach/Coastline, Desert, Grassland, Barren

Man-made Landform: Farmland​

Basin: River Basin, Lake Basin, Oasis, None​

The combination of these four factors will determine the overall fertility of a region of territory, which in turn influences attractiveness. This will be touched on later.

Cultivating/Terraforming
I will not take credit for this idea. It was suggested on this forum that terraforming should be added to the game. We know that elevation like hills and plateaus do not mean farmland is not present or could not be cultivated. The simplicity of the terrain system acts as if it is either or. Either way for a large amount of cash and a heavy investment of time 20 years minimum (these type of projects were always long), both player and ai can clear forest or jungle, drain marsh, or irrigate grassland. The cash and amount of time is to act as limiter on ai and players cultivating all potential territories. Once completed the resource for the territory will have a chance to change similar to when cities are built.

Terraforming cannot happen anywhere; it must have favorable factors in three of the four. So if a territory is arid plain grassland but has no basin, it cannot be terraformed. While certain factors are a no go. For example, a canyon cannot be terraformed, nor a mountain or beach.

Attraction
The idea of attractiveness is an idea influenced by Total War: Attila. As an ice age progresses in Attila, fertile regions increasing become prized possessions and are marked out for conquest.

In Imperator, attractiveness would be a factor of fertility, trade value and resource goods. As a feature, attractiveness would be a helpfully tool to give ai direction in their expansion and goals.

Barricade Dam
Barricade is a military cohort ability to cut off the benefit that river banks (should) give to food production. By maintaining a cohort on a section of a small river and selecting the ability, the cohort begins constructing a dam. The cohort must remain in place and not engage in combat. Once completed, the territories downstream get a food debuff.

Thus, by combining barricade damming and trade blockading, one can cause starvation and use it as a weapon.

 

[Stars_and_Bars]

Terrain, Elevation & Climate
I believe we are in a good place to introduce more complicated terrain configuration. Allowing for terrain combinations instead of our current EU4 simplified terrain. Mountains and hills do not mean there is an absence of forest (mountain peaks and extreme high mountain ranges are generally more barren). All farmland denotes is fertility and that land had been cleared, not the type of elevation.

Four Factors

Climate: Tropical, Temperate, Arid, Subartic
Elevation: Mountain, Hill, Cliff*, Plateau, Plain, Below Sea-Level, Canyon
*if a cliff is on the coast you cannot disembark troops from sea
Landform: Forest, Jungle, Marsh, Beach/Coastline, Desert, Grassland

Man-made Landform: Farmland​

Basin: River Basin, Lake Basin, Oasis, None​

The combination of these four factors will determine the overall fertility of a region of territory, which in turn influences attractiveness. This will be touched on later.

Cultivating/Terraforming
I will not take credit for this idea. It was suggested on this forum that terraforming should be added to the game. We know that elevation like hills and plateaus do not mean farmland is not present or could not be cultivated. The simplicity of the terrain system acts as if it is either or. Either way for a large amount of cash and a heavy investment of time 20 years minimum (these type of projects were always long), both player and ai can clear forest or jungle, drain marsh, or irrigate grassland. The cash and amount of time is to act as limiter on ai and players cultivating all potential territories. Once completed the resource for the territory will have a chance to change similar to when cities are built.

Terraforming cannot happen anywhere; it must have favorable factors in three of the four. So if a territory is arid plain grassland but has no basin, it cannot be terraformed. While certain factors are a no go. For example, a canyon cannot be terraformed, nor a mountain or beach.

Attraction
The idea of attractiveness is an idea influenced by Total War: Attila. As an ice age progresses in Attila, fertile regions increasing become prized possessions and are marked out for conquest.

In Imperator, attractiveness would be a factor of fertility, trade value and resource goods. As a feature, attractiveness would be a helpfully tool to give ai direction in their expansion and goals.

Barricade Dam
Barricade is a military cohort ability to cut off the benefit that river banks (should) give to food production. By maintaining a cohort on a section of a small river and selecting the ability, the cohort begins constructing a dam. The cohort must remain in place and not engage in combat. Once completed, the territories downstream get a food debuff.

Thus, by combining barricade damming and trade blockading, one can cause starvation and use it as a weapon.

It's a nice idea, but how would you make terrain map-mode that conveyed all this information without too much confusion? Would you need multiple?

 

[Limbojack]

I think this is the first of your ideas that I really disagree with. To make this work well would probably require a lot of work, and I dont see the potential gameplay improvement justify all that work. Complexity is a good thing, but it needs to be tied to something the game actually needs - and I dont think the game needs this.

 

[Limbojack]

But I wouldnt mind being able to build a dam. That would be a cool addition to the game, and might force them to make rivers more important in the future.

 

[Crunbum]

But I wouldnt mind being able to build a dam. That would be a cool addition to the game, and might force them to make rivers more important in the future.

There should be more major rivers if that was ever to become a thing, and it should only be useable on them and have a visual representation on the map. Also, it could end up being another mechanic that the AI doesn't use, a niche that gives the player a significant edge aka coastal mass fort destruction via fleets and I feel that needs to be avoided.

 

[Limbojack]

it could end up being another mechanic that the AI doesn't use a, niche that gives the player a significant edge.

While true, this is not a huge concern for me personally. I am mostly a MP player, and the AI isnt that important in my games. But since the majority plays this game a SP i would be nice if the AI knew how to handle it even tho it wouldnt affect my games that much.

 

[We Who Are About 2 Die]

It's a nice idea, but how would you make terrain map-mode that conveyed all this information without too much confusion? Would you need multiple?

Multiple. EU4 already has it. They have a terrain map, weather map, and climate(if I am not mistaken).

 

[We Who Are About 2 Die]

I think this is the first of your ideas that I really disagree with. To make this work well would probably require a lot of work, and I dont see the potential gameplay improvement justify all that work. Complexity is a good thing, but it needs to be tied to something the game actually needs - and I dont think the game needs this.

I appreciate the honest feed back, it gives me an opportunity to flush out the ideas. The reason I would like a bit more complicated terrain is for two reasons, one is to take the work that went into complicating EU4 terrain to the natural conclusion or next step. We have the tools, they already did the work, but I:R terrain is at how EU4 terrain started. In fact I:R map has even less than EU4. Look at the diversity of the terrain map verse the 5 terrains of I:R.

Terrain Map EU4:

Climate Map EU4:

Weather Map EU4:


Second reason is a soft barrier to terraforming everywhere, if terraforming is added. Currently the only landforms that would make sense to allow for terraforming would be plains and marsh. However, not all plains are viable for that, and there is no way to illustrate that.

As for barricading along with blockading and supply ranges, the idea is to foster other play styles which can be switch between as needed. Currently in offensive wars, you need to take territory and guard it. In Supremacy it is to win battles. In defensive is basically guard and push back. However, I would like to see where setting up on a defensible position denying the enemy food and income, forces the enemy to engage you (rather than send random small armies to take territory).

Help AI
The question is if AI will be able to understand that and utilize it. That is where attractiveness comes in, basically its a ping to attract the ai to seize valuable land. Thus, Ai will be attracted to your wealthy provinces and food baskets. By taking these from you, and not wasting time try to siege down impoverished areas, they hit you in your ability to prolong a war. For example, Phrygia declares on Egypt, its not going to try to siege down the west desert (something it does every-time in my games if it doesn't collapse) wasting manpower for useless territory; it wants the Nile Delta and Lower Nile. Effectively crippling Egypt's economy and starving out the West desert that needs the food from the Nile.

If an nation is significantly wealthy, mediocre and poor provinces are not attractive war targets, instead if the area falls within their realm of influence all they want is submission and peace. An example would be Rome. There is a reason that Rome did not push heavily up the Nile, one Nubian archers. But two, just as importantly the land was impoverished in comparison to Egypt. Too high a price for so little a prize. Its argued that Nubia became a client state.

 

[We Who Are About 2 Die]

It's a nice idea, but how would you make terrain map-mode that conveyed all this information without too much confusion? Would you need multiple?

Was anyone else surprised by how few map modes there is in I:R? I'm a EU4 player, that was the first thing I noticed when I bought and started the game. Kinda bothered me, but as I played more important issues caught my attention.

 

[Herrebrugh]

Was anyone else surprised by how few map modes there is in I:R? I'm a EU4 player, that was the first thing I noticed when I bought and started the game. Kinda bothered me, but as I played more important issues caught my attention.

This game definitely needs more map modes. A migration map mode would be nice, for example (but this is bit off topic, of course).

 

[We Who Are About 2 Die]

This game definitely needs more map modes. A migration map mode would be nice, for example (but this is bit off topic, of course).

Definitely on topic. I'm surprised no one thought of adding more and there hasn't been more backlash. They gave us a pretty map and were like "That's good!"

 

[CorneliusBottomly]

Definitely on topic. I'm surprised no one thought of adding more and there hasn't been more backlash. They gave us a pretty map and were like "That's good!"

To be fair, it's a VERY pretty map.

 

[We Who Are About 2 Die]

Naval Terrains
Would be nice to have various naval terrains confer different combat bonuses and the like.

• Riverine (Down Stream)
  • Severe Combat Bonus to Lembos & Triere
  • Severe Combat, Maneuver & Speed Debuff to Hexere, Octere, & Mega-Polyreme
• Riverine (Up Stream)
  
  • Prohibits movement of ships larger than Triere
  • Moving in the direction of the stream gives a passive speed boost (Upstream to Down Stream)
• Coastal
  • Significant Combat Bonus to Lembos & Triere
  • Significant Combat, Maneuver & Speed Debuff to Hexere, Octere, & Mega-Polyreme
• Open
  • Increased attrition for Lembos & Triere

Currents & Winds
The purpose of adding currents and winds is to do for naval warfare what terrain does for army movement. Slow down or increase movement.

Currents would be permanent factors that increase or slow down naval movement depending on the direction that the fleet is going. While winds could be seasonal or permanent.

Currents:


Winds:

 

[We Who Are About 2 Die]

Map Modes

City Map Mode (quickly showing Metropolis, cities, settlements in different colors)
Income Map Mode
Commerce Map Mode
Terrain (complicate terrain; Hills can be forested, etc.)
Climate Map Mode (allow easy viewage of storms as well)
Food Map Mode
Naval Range & Currents + Winds
Trade Lanes