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cccino

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<Design Decisions>

THE MAP
The map is not a strict duplicate of the old EU2/EUM borders. Given the advantages of a new, more detailed map, it was thought best to make suitable changes based on historical, geographical and (where appropriate) role-played factors. Borders, province names and province ownership is open to criticism and liable to change as a result of players' comments.

no longer relevant said:
Notable changes (not including redrawn borders and logical interpretations of EU map):

France
Avignon region given to France, since it has been generally accepted that Papal benefit from Avignon was negligable.

Italy
Ferrara to Modena to reflect its hereditary ownership (nominally Papal).
Venice's mainland (Italian) holdings extended to reflect historical lands, and I assume that's how it's been played.

Balkans
Venice's Adriatic coast broken up to reflect historical/geographical realities.
Croatian province (Slavonia) granted to Hungary (ownership of former, incorrectly named, Krain) more logical.

HRE
Ansbach is owned by Brandenburg; historical.
Oberpfalz is owned by the Palatinate; historical.
Trier is an independant, playable, electorate.
Carinthia/Styria broken up to reflect dual ownership of former Steiermark, RP.
Brunswick/Hannover split between Bremen/Pommern as per RPd ownership.
Utrecht owned by Gelre; logical game balance.
Brabant reoriented; geographical.
Ostfriesland to Oldenburg, not Friesland, as often RPd as part of EU Oldenburg province and not Frisien.
Schleswig from part of former Jylland given to Holstein; historical.

Eastern Europe
Poznan area shared between Poland and Pommern.
Russian provinces more appropriately named/located.
Narva to Pommern as per RP (city capital of Ingria province according to EU2).
Lithuania significantly loses size/stats.

And probably other changes I've forgotten.

Straights
I figure the connections between provinces across sea zones, which can be marched across, should be as follows:

Jylland - Fyn
Fyn - Sjaelland
Sjaelland - Skane
Malardalen - Aland
Aland - Finland
Livland - Dago/Osel
Istria - Dalmatia
Calabria - Messina
Kaffa - Kerch
Constantinople - Ismid
Thrace - Karasi
Karasi - Mytilene
Mytilene - Smyrna
Ionia - Aidin
Ionia - Athenai
Ionia - Thessaly
Geneve - Savoie


THE STATISTICS
The premise is that the numbers involved in the game are more or less doubled, increasing the flexibility of the game mechanics without increasing the complexity for the player. LM/SM/Tech/Morale/Eco are to be considered in a scale as roughly twice as large as previously (although the statistics for individual nations are not calculated as merely 2x old values).

Province values reflect wealth in terms of assets and infrastructure of that province, affecting tech and fortress size & garrison strength in sieges and assaults. In the modern era, the government is responsible for outfitting and maintaining the army. In the middle ages, it is the nobles' responsibility, and that depends on the local wealth and non-convertible assets like horses and equipment. Province values affect LM, Eco, Tech and Fortresses. To all intents and purposes, zero value provinces are irrelevant, affecting neither tech, LM or eco.

Landmil (LM) - each province contributes a number of points towards LM, ie:
Code:
Pval....... 0 .. 1 .. 2 .. 3 .. 4 .. 5 .. 6  
LM-Points.. 0 .. 2 .. 4 .. 5 .. 5 .. 5 .. 5
LM are granted at the following points levels: 0, 9, 23, 38, 54 and every 16 points thereafter.

Economy (Eco) - each province contributes a number of points towards Eco, ie:
Code:
Pval....... 0 .. 1 .. 2 .. 3 .. 4 .. 5 .. 6
LM-Points.. 0 .. 1 .. 2 .. 3 .. 4 .. 5 .. 6
Eco are granted at the following points levels: 0, 3, 9, 18, 30, 45, 63, 84, 108, 135, etc.

Seamil (SM) - every port contributes points towards SM, depending on the value of the province, ie:
Code:
Pval (port).. 0 .. 1 .. 2 .. 3 .. 4 .. 5 .. 6
SM-Points.... 0 .. 1 .. 1 .. 1 .. 1 .. 2 .. 2
SM are granted at the following points levels: 1, 2, 4, and every 2 points thereafter.

Tech is based on the average of provincial values, and thus changes when a nation changes its territory. This reflects the fact that, generally, the nation's wealth is tied up in materiel and lifestyle and not readily converted into cash.

Currently the formula (subject to tweaking) is:
[3 + G*(S + M)/(N + 1.4)]
where:
S = the sum of the province values
M = the largest province value owned
N = the number of provinces owned
G = the nation's tech group, according to the EU2 1419 scenario*, such that G{Latin} = 2.0, G{Orthodox} = 1.8, G{Muslim} = 1.6

The minimum base tech is 5, the maximum is 12. These limits include all pseudo-permanent tech modifiers. There are no longer permanent annexation bonuses.

*Tech groups (open to correction) - as I understand it:
"Latin tech" - Aquitaine, Aragon, Baden, Bavaria, Bohemia, Bourbonnais, Brabant, Brandenburg, Bremen, Brittany, Burgundy, Carinthia, Castille, Cologne, Denmark, England, France, Friesland, Gelre, Holstein, Ireland, Helvetia, Hessen, Kleves, Knights of St John, Luxembourg, Magdeburg, Mainz, Mantua, Mecklenburg, Milan, Modena, Munster, Naples, Navarre, Oldenburg, Papal States, Palatinate, Piemonte, Poland, Pommern, Portugal, Provence, Saxony, Scotland, Sicily, Siena, Sweden, Trier, Tuscany, Venice, Wales, Wurttemberg, Wurzburg.

"Orthodox tech" - Bosnia, Bulgaria, Croatia, Georgia, Hungary, Lithuania, Macedonia, Moldavia, Muscovy, Ottoman Empire, Pskov, Ragusa, Serbia, Suzdal, Teutonic Order, Transylvania.

"Muslim tech" - Algiers, Candar, Dulkadir, Golden Horde, Mameluks, Persia, Tunisia.​

A possibility is to redefine these groups, such as dividing Latin into Renaissance and pre-Renaissance tech groups.

Morale is currently intended to be (before modifiers) the same for every nation. This value will then be immediately modified upon going to war, depending on certain factors (offensive/defensive war, casus belli, etc). See below for table of suggested modifiers.

Morale should not reflect how suicidal an army is - ie, a high morale army should not automatically take more casualties, nor necessarily fight to the death. What should morale represent? Discipline? The army's ability on a tactical level to withdraw and regroup? Courage and conviction? Both how hard/long they fight and how well they "keep it together". In reality a significant proportion of casualties (as much as a third of total?) in a battle were suffered after an army was routed.

Vassal Tribute is one-third, ie:
Code:
Eco...|  2  |  3  |  4  |  5  |  6  |  7  |  8  |  9  | 10  | 11+ |
Owed..|[color=silver]  1  |  1  |  1  |  2  |  2  |  2  |  3  |  3  |  3  |  4  |[/color]

Pseudo-Permanent Modifiers to base statistics - in the old system, there were a few of these sorts of modifiers, such as a morale bonus for Shi'ite realms. These have been expanded, and now include:

Military Order +1 LM, +1 Morale
... The Orders get extra LM for foreign recruits, morale for combat being their raison d'etre.
Episcopal State -1 Morale
... States ruled by a Bishop or Archbishop.
Mercenary State -1 Morale
... States reliant on paid troops.
Non-Feudal State +1 Tech, -1 Morale
... Republics and such. Citizens are less inclined to fight and die because they have more at stake.
Holy Father ???
... Money that could be spent on war goes into the church's coffers. Soldiers cannot be promised reward in heaven in lieu of actual pay for very long.
Naval State +1 SM
... Certain nations historically had larger navies.
Ghazi State+1 Morale
... The Turkish Ghazi states
Vassal +1 Morale
... Vassal states feel protected by, and loyal to, their overlord.
Holy Roman Emperor +1 Morale
... Same bonus as before.
Orthodox Church Centre +1 Morale
... Same bonus as before; Orthodox realm holding specific Church Centre.

They are cumulative; some nations are affected by more than one of these. In practice, only the last three are likely to change for any given nation.
 
Last edited:

cccino

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ADDITIONAL & MODIFIED RULES

Eco Regeneration
Peacetime regeneration = 2 eco per turn.​
Wartime regeneration is more problematic. Consider eco spent on LM/SM, and that spent on tech/morale. What are the limits of regeneration? What if home provinces are controlled by an enemy? How does this affect regeneration? What needs to be determined and recorded each turn specifically to regenerate a small amount of eco during wartime? Is the complexity worth the payoff? Are wars of long enough duration (not more than 5 years, at a guess) to warrant the necessity of wartime regeneration?

No eco is regenerated when a nation is at war.
A nation may only spend (convert eco to LM, SM, Tech or Morale) 1 eco per turn during war.​
NO LONGER APPLICABLE said:
Whenever a nation at war has current LM less than base LM (determined by number of unoccupied provinces), the nation regenerates 1 LM per turn. This will have the added affect that tech/morale are more useful than ever, since purchase of these carries over to future regenerated LM. Also, the more LM you have purchased, the farther away from free regenerated LM you are. These disincentives to purchasing LM counter balance the fact that LM is more useful in battles. Even though, for high tech/morale, you will do more damage per LM, having a large number of LM will mean you can absorb a lot more damage, too.


Wars and Battles

Land battles are intended to be less decisive than before, which, with larger numbers, is appropriate. It is also the intent for the battles system to determine the final outcome of the battle, leaving its stage-by-stage progress to be roleplayed freely. Throughout all battles, the maximum effective tech and morale will be 20, and the minimum 1.

For every army in enemy territory, in a given turn there may be:
Battle & attrition,
Battle & siege & attrition,
Siege & attrition, or
Assault & attrition.​

In battle orders, the player specifies his armies' movements through enemy territory. Armies can move through as many "friendly" provinces as they like in one turn, and to take advantage of this the player needs only mention the nations through which he has right of passage that his armies will be moving through.

Armies can move through up to 3 hostile provinces in one turn. The player will need to specify every hostile province passed through in this way. An army is subject to attrition once per turn based on the values of the hostile provinces it has been in that turn.

An army's movement is immediately interrupted if it encounters enemy LM at any point during its march. It is up to the battle mod's discretion whether or not two moving armies intercept.

Armies can be transported by ship. 1SM can carry 1LM. Note that LM on board improves a navy's combat efficiency.

If an army ends its turn in enemy territory (whether specified in player orders or movement interrupted by battle & victory), it will begin to siege the province. The besieging army size must be greater or equal to the fortress (province) size for a result to be rolled in that turn. The player may specify in his orders that he wishes to assault a province at any point of the siege. However, if a battle takes place, any assault orders are cancelled, and any additional movement orders are ignored.

If an army loses a battle, it "retreats" and cannot siege, assault, or be involved in any further battles. It is still, however, subject to attrition (based on where it has been, not where it "goes".

Throughout battles, assaults, sieges and attrition, LM is treated as a real number and is not rounded to the nearest integer more than once per turn.

See the following sections on Field Battles, Sieges, Assaults, Attrition and Naval Battles for more information.


Field Battles

The results of a battle are determined as follows.

Each army has a potential to inflict damage based upon its size in LM and its morale. This raw number is given by:
(LM) * (Morale) * (2D6) / 120
...and will eventually become the number of casualties an army can inflict on the enemy. Each army will roll 2 D6 to get this "damage potential".

The duration and intensity of the battle ("bloodiness", if you like) could be due to weather, misfortune, terrain, etc. We now roll a single D6 to determine the bloodiness (which is the same for all sides in this battle). Consider a "6" as a very long decisive battle or series of battles in which a very large portion of each army is killed; a "1", a short or somehow constrained battle or series of skirmishes.

The amount of casualties an army suffers depends on the "damage potential" of its opponent, on how much better or worse its tech is, and on the intensity or bloodiness of the battle. To work out the result of the battle we look at the following relative tech table:

Code:
	Tech (relative)					
Roll  -6,<   -5     -4     -3     -2     -1      0     +1     +2     +3     +4     +5     +6,>
 1[color=silver]    70%    65%    60%    55%    50%    45%    40%    35%    30%    25%    20%    15%    10%[/color]
 2[color=silver]    75%    70%    65%    60%    55%    50%    45%    40%    35%    30%    25%    20%    15%[/color]
 3[color=silver]    85%    80%    75%    70%    65%    60%    55%    50%    45%    40%    35%    30%    25%[/color]
 4[color=silver]   100%    95%    90%    85%    80%    75%    70%    65%    60%    55%    50%    45%    40%[/color]
 5[color=silver]   120%   115%   110%   105%   100%    95%    90%    85%    80%    75%    70%    65%    60%[/color]
 6[color=silver]   145%   140%   135%   130%   125%   120%   115%   110%   105%   100%    95%    90%    85%[/color]

To find the casualties for army A, we look up its "relative tech", that is, army A's tech minus army B's tech. Looking down this column and to the row matching the "bloodiness" level above, we retrieve a percentage. We multiply this percentage by the army B's "damage potential" to get our casualties for army A.

We do similarly for the other side - looking up instead the column for army B's tech minus army A's tech and the same row as rolled in "bloodiness" above. This percentage is multiplied by army A's "damage potential" to get our casualties for army B.

Overkill is ignored.

Each side is given a score based on relative losses, according to the following formula:
(Morale) * (Remaining LM) / (Initial LM)
The victor is the side with the higher score (ties, extremely unlikely, are granted to the defender).

After casualties are removed, each army will have LM recorded as a real number. Attrition is checked and if necessary applied. Finally, at the very end of the turn, all numbers are rounded to the nearest integer.

NEEDS TO BE UPDATED said:
Example

Poland 10 LM, 8 Tech, 11 Morale.
vs
Lithuania 15 LM, 6 Tech, 10 Morale.

Determining the Casualties:

Poland rolls a 3... (10 + 4)*11*(1 + 3)/100 = 6.61 damage against Lithuania.
Lithuania rolls a 5... (15 + 4)*10*(1 + 5)/100 = 11.40 damage against Poland.

The Gods roll 1, dictating this battle will be little more than a skirmish (between two fairly large armies :p).

Poland looks up 8 - 6 = +2 column of tech table, row 1 (30%). Poland takes 0.3 * 11.40 = 3.42 casualties.
Lithuania looks up 6 - 8 = -2 column of tech table, row 1 (50%). Lithuania takes 0.5 * 6.61 = 3.08 casualties.

Determining the Victor:

Poland's score is 11 * (10 - 3.42)/(10) = 7.24
Lithuania's score is 10 * (15 - 3.08)/(15) = 7.95

Final Result:

Lithuania is the victor, and Poland is forced to retreat.
Poland has 7 LM remaining (taking 0 attrition for now).
Lithuania has 12 LM remaining.

Field Battles - Alliance Armies

For the most part, a battle with multiple armies on either (or both) sides proceeds as normal. Each army is given a separate "damage potential".

The weighted average of the side's tech is taken to determine the column used by each army. The average is weighted based on the amount of LM in each enemy army. So in essence, the column chosen on the tech table will be the army's tech minus the average tech of the enemy, rounded down. For a better explanation, see the example in this section, below.

The casualties lost by each army on the same side are proportional to their sizes. Again, see the example below.

The final scores are given to each side, not to each army, and are again a kind of weighted average. The example shows how this weighting is made.

NEEDS TO BE UPDATED said:
Example 2

Poland (10 LM, 8 Tech, 10 Morale) and Lithuania (15 LM, 6 Tech, 10 Morale)
vs
Hungary (15 LM, 8 Tech, 11 Morale) and Bohemia (11 LM, 10 Tech, 12 Morale)

Poland rolls a 6, inflicts (LM+4)*M*(1+D)/100 = 9.80
Lithuania rolls a 5, inflicts 11.40

Hungary rolls a 3, inflicts 8.36
Bohemia rolls a 1, inflicts 3.60

Bloodiness roll is 5

Considerations for Multiple Armies:

Attacker tech, weighted average = (10*8 + 15*6)/25 = 6.8
Defender tech, weighted average = (15*8 + 11*10)/26 = 8.8

Poland takes casualties on 8 - 8.8 => -1 (rounded down) column
Lithuania takes casualties on 6 - 8.8 => -3 column
Hungary takes casualties on 8 - 6.8 => +1 column
Bohemia takes casualties on 10 - 6.8 => +3 column

Poland casualties are 95% (from table) of the weighted average of the total casualties against alliance.
0.95 * (8.36 + 3.60) * 10/25 = 4.54

Lithuania casualties are
1.05 * (8.36 + 3.60) * 15/25 = 7.53

Hungary casualties are
0.85 * (9.80 + 11.40) * 15/26 = 10.39

Bohemia casualties are
0.75 * (9.80 + 11.40) * 11/26 = 6.73

Final Scores, again based on weighted average

P/L => (10 * (10 - 4.54) + 10 * (15 - 7.53))/25 = 5.17
H/B => (11 * (15 - 10.39) + 11 * (11 - 6.73))/26 = 3.76

Poland/Lithuania coalition is victorious.

Sieges

Provinces must be sieged before they can be captured. Sieges take place automatically and do not need to be specified by player orders. Duration of siege will be affected by province value (ie size of fortress(es) in province). 0 value provinces will be captured if at least 1 LM ends its turn there. This still means you can drop a single LM off in every 0 value province you can reach (like, 3)... any need to resolve this? Armies still subject to attrition (very small chance for 1 LM) and of course easily annhiliated by enemy. And provs easily recaptured. I'd say its ok.

An army ending its turn in hostile territory automatically begins to besiege the province. The besieging army size must be greater or equal to the fortress (province) size for a result to be rolled for in that turn. At the start of the siege, garrison size equals the province value. For capitals, the garrison is doubled.

Siege turn result modifiers:
+3 if Attacker tech - Defender morale > 9
+2 if Attacker tech - Defender morale = 6 to 9
+1 if Attacker tech - Defender morale = 2 to 5
+0 if Attacker tech - Defender morale = -1 to 1
-1 if Attacker tech - Defender morale = -5 to -2
-2 if Attacker tech - Defender morale = -9 to -6
-3 if Attacker tech - Defender morale = < -9

+1 For each previous siege turn rolled (ie not including any turns where LM was < fort size) without siege being lifted.​
A result for the siege turn is found by
1D6 + (Tech/Morale Modifier) + (Siege Duration Modifier) - (Fortress Garrison Remaining)
This result will lead to the following effects
< 0, No effect.
0 to 3, 1 Garrison Lost (temporary, garrison is reset if siege lifted or won)
4 to 7, 2 Garrison Lost
> 8, 3 Garrison Lost​

When there is no garrison remaining the province surrenders to the besieging army.

At any point, the impatient player can request to assault the fortress. For this reason garrison strength must be recorded over the duration of the siege.

Example

Hungary (Tech 8) besieges level 6 province, Constantinople (OE Morale 6).

Attacker tech - Defender morale = 2, a modifier of +1. (Note that often this will change between turns. For this example we will take these numbers as constant).

Initial garrison is 6 LM.

Jan-Mar 1450.
Roll = 3. Result = Die roll, 3 + Tech/Morale modifier, 1, - Defender Strength, 6, + Siege Duration, 0.
3 +1 -6 +0 = -3, no effect.

Apr-Jun 1450.
Roll = 2. Result = 2 +1 -6 +1 = -3, no effect.

Jul-Sep 1450.
Roll = 6. Result = 6 +1 -6 +2 = 3. 1 garrison lost, 5 remaining.

Oct-Dec 1450.
Roll = 4. Result = 4 +1 -5 +3 = 3. 1 garrison lost, 4 remaining.

Jan-Mar 1451.
Roll = 1. Result = 1 +1 -4 +4 = 2. 1 garrison lost, 3 remaining.

At this point, if the besieger decided to assault the fortress, it would face a defender of 3LM at Tech/Morale 16/16

Apr-Jun 1451.
Roll = 5. Result = 5 +1 -3 +5 = 8. 3 garrison lost, 0 remaining. Province captured after 6 turns duration.​

Assaults

Sieges can be broken by assault, but the cost for the attacker will be extremely high. Assaults must be specified in battle orders, and will not take place if a battle has already occurred in that province. Results will be determined as per regular battles, with the exception that the defender's tech/morale will equal (10 + province value). The size of the defending army in LM will be equal to the remaining garrison.

NEEDS TO BE UPDATED said:
Example

Let us assume Hungary assaulted Constantinople in Apr-Jun 1451.
Hungary 18 LM, Tech 8, Morale 13
vs
Constantinople Garrison 3 LM, Tech 16, Morale 16

Determining the Casualties:

Hungary rolls a 2... (18 + 4)*13*(1 + 2)/100 = 5.58 damage against Fortress Garrison.
Garrison rolls a 5... (3 + 4)*16*(1 + 5)/100 = 6.72 damage against Hungary.

The bloodiness of the assault (ie row on tech table) is determined as the minimum value for which the assault succeeds (this is best automated as it means calculating the number of remaining defenders for each level).

In this case, the best row turns out to be 4.

Hungary looks up 8 - 16 => -6 column of tech table, row 4 (100%). Hungary takes 1.0 * 6.72 = 6.72 casualties.
Garrison looks up +6 column of tech table, row 4 (40%). Garrison takes 0.4 * 5.58 = 3.43 casualties.

Determining the Victor:

Garrison has 0 LM remaining, and so Hungary succeeds in capturing the province.

Final Result:

Hungary is the victor, and captures the city of Constantinople.
Hungary has 11 LM remaining (assuming 0 attrition for now).

Attrition

Armies are subject to attrition where (army size) > (support limit) in enemy territory only. For simplicity, attrition roll takes place after battles, sieges and assaults, using the average province value of those travelled through, and the LM remaining AFTER battles. The support limit is determined by
2 * (Average of Province Values travelled through)
and the attrition rate is determined by
1: 0%, 2: 10%, ..., 6: 50%
A percentage of LM above the support limit are subject to elimination determined by 1D6 roll as above.

Attrition is the last thing to take place in a turn, and once applied the remaining LM are rounded to the nearest integer.

Example

Continuing from the very first battles example,

Poland has 6.58 LM remaining.
Army travelled through 2 enemy provinces this turn, sizes 2 and 3.
Support limit is 2*Average = 5; Poland has 1.58 LM subject to attrition.

Poland rolls a 6 => 0.5 * 1.58 = 0.79 LM lost.
6.58 - 0.79 = 5.79 LM remaining

Since this is the final stage of the turn, numbers are rounded for recording in the stats. After battle and attrition, Poland has 6 LM remaining.​

Naval Battles

LM carried on board will have an effect on battles. They make the fleet more efficient in combat (ie in close range fire and boarding) but their effectiveness is limited by an individual ships ability to maneouver or position for grappling and boarding.

Initially, two enemy fleets will avoid each other carefully, waiting for the right time, position, wind and weather conditions to engage. How effectively the fleets maneouver, how spread out the fleet is and how much of it gets into the combat is largely based on luck.

The portion of each fleet that is involved in the battle is determined by
((0.15 * 1D6) + 0.1) * SM
and is determined for each side, subsituting SM and rolling a separate D6 result for each. Having a greater part of the fleet in the battle inflicts more damage on the enemy, but puts more of the navy at risk of elimination.

Each side rolls another D6 to determine its potential to inflict damage upon the enemy. This damage factor is determined by
(SME + (SME * LMR * D/12)) * M * (D + 1)/100
where SME = the portion of SM that is engaged,
D = 1D6 (ie same number used twice in formula)
LMR = the ratio of LM to SM (ie (initial total LM) / (initial total SM)), i.e. it is assumed that the soldiers are evenly distributed throughout the ships.
M = Morale

The battle proceeds as per land battles, except that instead of rolling to determine the "bloodiness", a fixed value of 5 is used. This row on the relative tech table (land battles) is used for all sides. Taking the column matching the (attacker/defender) tech minus (defender/attacker) tech, a %'age value is retrieved, which is multiplied by the initial casualites inflicted upon (not by) that side to get the final casualites lost by that side. This process is repeated (relative tech reversed) for the other side.

These final casualties are removed from SM engaged in the battle, only, capped at a maximum of engaged ships determined earlier. Overkill is ignored.

Victory is determined by the same score method as for land battles, using the total initial SM in place of LM in the formula.

The victor of the battle will have captured a certain number of enemy ships according to the following formula
(enemy ships lost) * (20 - Tech) / 40
This number is added to the victor's remaining SM.

LM are lost according to the LMR ratio. Note that the final LM will be based on total remaining (including captured) SM.

There is no naval attrition, and at this stage all numbers are rounded to the nearest integer.

Example

Venice 16 SM, 0 LM on board, 10 Tech, 10 Morale
vs
Ottoman Empire 10 SM, 10 LM on board, 8 Tech, 12 Morale

Manoeuver Phase:

Venice rolls a 4. (0.15 * 4 + 0.1) * 16 = 11.2 SM play a role in this battle.
OE rolls a 2. (0.15 * 2 + 0.1) * 10 = 4.0 SM play a role in this battle.

Determining Casualties:

Venice rolls a 3. (11.2 + 3 + 0 ) * 10 * 6/100 = 8.52 damage inflicted on OE.
OE rolls a 4. (4.0 + 4 + (4 - 1)*(10/10)) * 12 * 6/100 = 7.92 damage inflicted on Venice.

For naval battles, the 5 row on the tech table is used.

Venice looks up 10 - 8 = +2 column of the tech table, row 5 (80%). 0.8 * 7.92 = 6.34 SM lost.
OE looks up -2 column of the tech table, row 5 (100%). 1.0 * 8.52 = 8.52. There are only 4.0 SM involved, and so OE loses 4.0 SM.

Determining Victor:

Venice has score 10 * (16 - 6.34)/16 = 6.04.
OE has score 12 * (10 - 8.52)/10 = 1.78 (note that even though only 4.0 were lost, the maximum 8.52 are used for the score).

Determining Captured Ships:

Now that we know Venice is the victor, no. of enemy ships captured is 4.0 * (20 - 10) / 40 = 1.0 SM.

Final Result:

Venice is the victor, and the Ottoman Fleet retires to seek a friendly port.
Venice has 10 + 1 = 11 SM remaining.
OE has 6 SM and 6 LM remaining.​

Wartime Morale Modifiers

Every nation at peace starts with (more or less) the same morale level. This will vary in wartime depending on the conditions under which the war is declared or fought. The modifiers that are immediately applied, lasting for the duration of the war against that party, follow. They are largely subject to moderator decision, I guess.

Declaring war upon another (cumulative for each nation DoW'd upon, exceptions noted), mutually exclusive (choose one that best fits DoW type) effects:
+0 Morale - Declaring war with roleplayed Casus Belli, ie the 'default' war effect. Religion does not count as a CB.
+1 Morale - Declaring war with very strong CB (regardless of quantity & quality, roleplay is alone not enough. Must have also have a strong argument, eg target's backstabbing, theft, murder of diplomat, historical CB... all with very conclusive RP justification, etc. May even be commuted to +2 in extreme cases -- to be discussed.)
+0 Morale - Declaring (offensive) war as part of alliance (ie alliance is your CB. DoW must take place within 2 weeks of first partner, ie before the second DoW deadline).
+1 Morale - Declaring war in support of a defensive (see below) ally. ie the same as having war declared against you (DoW must take place within 2 weeks of first partner, ie before the second DoW deadline). NB only one instance per alliance DoWed against.
-1 Morale - Declaring war with poor alliance CB or late alliance DoW. Includes having joined alliance shortly before war (within 3 weeks (two ends-of-turn have passed) of first partner's DoW)). Also includes alliance DoW when partner you are supporting has no CB.
-2 Morale - Declaring war with no CB (includes obvious CB tricks trying to avoid penalty for unjust war.)​

Having war declared upon you (cumulative per alliance (alliance defined as per use of alliance as CB)), mutually exclusive effects:
+1 Morale - Defensive war (having war declared against you).
+0 Morale - Counter-DoW'd by your enemy's ally.
+0 Morale - Provoking war to be declared upon you. Usually the legitimate tactic of having a CB and acting aggressively, short of a DoW.
-1 Morale - Provoking war to be declared upon you in an attempt to unfairly get the defensive bonus. Usually when you provoke the war without having a CB.​

Effects applied in addition to instances above (one instance per DoW against alliance):
+1 morale - Being at war with a religious opponent (only Shi'ite vs Sunni & Christian vs Muslim - not Catholic vs Orthodox).
-1 Morale - Declaring war when your nation is already at war (nation is only considered 'already at war' after the first end-of-turn).
-2 Morale - Declaring war after the deadline (does not include alliance counter-DoWs if applicable before end of first turn of the war). Reducible to -1 or 0 in extenuating circumstances; application to mods prior battles posted (preferably before DoW).​

These are all suggestions and open to comment.

Example

Aragon roleplays a CB against Naples, and DoWs them.
Venice has only just signed an alliance with Aragon, and DoWs Naples.
Sicily, as an ally of Naples, declares war on Aragon and Venice.

Aragon has +0 morale (regular DoW) for the duration of the war.
Venice has -1 morale (late/poor alliance DoW) for the duration of the war.
Naples has +2 morale (small nation defensive) for the duration of the war.
Sicily has +1 morale (alliance defensive, ignores size) for the duration of the war.

In a few turns time, Hungary, seeing an opportunity, DoWs Venice, with a very weak CB.
Croatia, as an ally of Hungary, DoWs Venice.
Aragon, as an ally of Venice, DoWs Hungary and Croatia.

Venice has an additional +1 morale (defensive) for the duration.
Aragon has an additional +0 morale (+1 defensive alliance, -1 already at war) for the duration.
Hungary has -2 morale (no CB) for the duration.
Croatia has -1 morale (alliance no CB) for the duration.​

Single-Battle Modifiers

Given the greater range of values available for tech/morale, there is more freedom for minor bonuses/maluses given as a result of battles.

+2 morale - If HoS leads an army.
+2 morale - HoS can defend a province (eg the capital) for this bonus to siege and assault, but cannot leave the province until the siege is lifted (if province captured, HoS is captured). (NB HoS location unknown (player free to place him anywhere at any time) until specified. Otherwise must be able to travel uninterrupted if player wants to move him from province to army, etc. Can be transported overseas by imaginary SM.)
+1 morale - For the battle on home soil, for field battles only, the owner of the territory (not allies) receives the bonus (whether attacking or defending).​

These are all suggestions and open to comment.

Victory/Defeat bonuses
For winning a battle, a nation gains +1 morale for 4 turns.
For losing a battle, a nation takes -1 morale for x turns, where x = the number of friendly LM (or SM) destroyed.
For death of a HoS, a nation takes -2 morale until end of war.
For losing the capital, a nation takes -2 morale until regained.
For losing control of a province, a nation takes -1 morale for 2 turns.
For capturing an enemy province, a nation gains +1 tech for x turns, where x = province value.
For capturing an enemy capital, a nation gains +1 tech until the end of the war (in addition to above bonus).

For annexing a capital province (or realm), +1 tech for 5 years/20 turns. Permanent annexation bonuses are redundant under new system. All former annexation bonuses have been immediately expired (open to discussion).​

These are all suggestions and open to comment.

Peacetime Morale Modifiers

These modifiers are immediate and automatic upon taking any of the following actions:
-1 Morale for 1 year/4 turns - Revoking a treaty of any kind. You may avoid this penalty if the treaty was only signed by a previous player.
-1 Morale for 2 years/8 turns - Refusing to honour an alliance. This means you should choose your allies carefully!​

These are all suggestions and open to comment. I think it would be good to have more RP-independant events / fixed-effects beyond the usual RP-triggered / player-requested events tables.







cccino on convertibility of eco. Please ignore this chain-of-thought bullshit. I just can't stand to throw stuff away :) said:
BLAH

Purchases

It is assumed that 1 eco can be converted into 1 LM, 1 SM, 1 tech or 1 morale. Is this a valid assumption? Should a nation with really high tech/morale be able to purchase LM for the same cost as really low tech/morale? As regards tech, I'd say "yes", as tech reflects wealth (wealthier nation can afford to spend more on army, so 1 eco is worth more); and high morale nation could be considered more organised and efficient at rasing armies (again, 1 eco is worth more in local terms). However, the implication is that a nation's available eco is normalised for use within that nation. How does this affect its use with other nations, ie loans? Should a poor (low tech) nation's eco, loaned to a rich nation, have the same value? <Simplicity and balance need to be considered.> Possibilities include that LM purchased by loans should have lower tech/morale than that raised by the local economy. What does purchasing LM mean? Spending administrative costs, materiel to raise a levy? Or hiring mercenaries? Mercenaries would have higher tech, lower morale. Levy would have lower tech, same national morale. In theory, there should be a limit to the size of a raised army under 'normal' conditions before it means severely stripping the nation of resources (eg more peasants in army, fewer farmers). Possibility - tech/morale have less of an effect on battles than no. of LM, but max LM is fixed at a certain level per nation, so extra eco can only be used on tech/morale. Possibility - only a nation's own eco can be spent on LM, loaned eco can only be spent on t/m. Possibility - nation's own eco spent on LM = levy (eg -2 tech LM), loans spend on LM = mercenaries (eg +2 tech, -2 morale). Need extra details recorded during war, such as multiple tech/morale armies. Consider also wartime regeneration.
 
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cccino

Oberleutnant z. S.
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Sep 6, 2002
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Additional Credit

SaT, who aided in redrawing Hungary and advised on early issues.

Icarus for showing me his HYW rules, and Longinus for sharing his HYW province values.


SUMMARY OF CHANGES UNDER DISCUSSION

List of options/suggestions under discussion and summary of the various opinions, pros and cons. Changes to the current game rules which may or may not be implemented.

  • Battles rules to be reviewed and rebalanced.

Other suggestions have been made:
  • Army movement limits (range/terrain). Freedom to move through non-RoP provs.
  • Enable province values to have modifiers, as the case for normal stats.
  • Special decentralisation effects.
  • Eliminate tech group modifiers
  • Reduce difference between majors and minors.
  • Increase difference between majors and minors.
  • Removal of attrition system in favour of "micro-events" prior to battles.
  • Review of modifiers.
  • What should the game date be?


RECENT CHANGES

Record of any changes made so you can keep track of what's happening in this thread.

  • 25-April - New LM and Eco calculation implemented. All stats have changed.
    - Many tech values have changed, generally downwards. Particular changes in Lithuania, Golden Horde, North Africa.
    - Changes and additions to national modifiers.
    - Minor changes to rules, including wartime spending limit.
    - Tweaking to battles formulas. NB possible changes.
  • 16-April - Map provinces completely redrawn in Iberia & France regions. A few province name changes. Lithuania has fewer provinces now.

USE OF THIS THREAD -- TAKE NOTE

1. This proposal is just that - a proposal. There is no implication intended that the new map and stats I suggest will be implemented.

2. Mods, players, former players and even "outsiders" are welcome to post comments in this thread. However, I will be moderating this discussion closely, so please limit yourselves to useful comments. This is not the lounge.

3. This thread will be regularly cleared out to keep discussion concise and on subject. Serious suggestions, criticisms and corrections will be kept and summarised in this post, above. Every issue raised will be given due consideration and I am quite happy to yield to common sense and the voice of the majority.
-- Ladislav, with your permission I'll send all discussion in this thread to the vault, so people can still read through it all if they like.

4. At some point, a limit of the usefulness of discussion will be reached. From then, I will propose a vote on whether or not to accept the changes to the MRPG that I have proposed in this thread. I would ask you to vote yes or no on the proposal in its entirety. Minor sections should be dealt with by discussion prior to final overall decision.

5. Until I request that this proposal be considered for incorporation into our RPG, you should treat this as an academic exercise only. I repeat that there is no implication intended that my maps and stats will ever be implemented, nor is there any moderator agenda to do so.

6. Let the arguments begin!

--- cccino.
 
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