• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

Dimitri Cosmos

Captain
51 Badges
Dec 7, 2018
357
61
dimitricosmos.artstation.com
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Magicka 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Surviving Mars
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • King Arthur II
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
It has been argued that hierocratic + ancestor veneration is better than temporal + ancestor veneration, because you can't become venerated yourself with temporal. While the latter is true, if you are alive, there's a workaround: shortly before your death, grant the religious title to your heir, and there's about 46% chance that you'll become venerated after your death, if your prestige is 20 000. (More details here).

However, it's not that important to get venerated yourself. It's just as beneficial to have a venerated ancestor of your dynasty, and even outside of it, if you get that bloodline into your dynasty through matrilineal marriages.

If you have been expanding and granting land and titles to your dynasty members, in a few generations there is going to be someone who is prestigious enough to get venerated.

It's quite ridiculous who is getting chosen as a candidate, because even kinslayers, lustful, craven (and I think even cannibals) become blessed.

Anyway, with my fifth ruler since the reformation, this is how many venerated ancestors I already have.

doLtvy.jpg

Two of them have no living descendants, because they didn't had any children at the moment of their death. One of them is from a converted kingdom outside my realm. One of them is from a dynasty that is related to mine. The rest are of my dynasty. One of the venerated ancestors even already had a venerated ancestor bloodline on him before he became venerated himself. So all his descendants are double-blessed. :D

Anyway, whenever you make someone a venerated ancestor, you get "Very Grateful" (+30?) opinion modifier with all members of that character's dynasty. As you can imagine, that is very useful, if that dynasty is yours and your dynasty is holding most or all of the titles. Quite often, I got even 2 or 3 venerated ancestors per ruler (all my rulers have lived beyond 60 years, some even beyond 70). That means +60 or even +90 opinion from your vassals, which has been extremely useful not only to me, but to my heirs as well.

Currently, I have a potential heir, who already has 3 blessed bloodlines on him in addition to the historic, forged and warrior lodge bloodlines. His PC was 54 already when he was a baby.:D
 
Last edited:

majdavlk

Emperor of the United Peoples Republic of Earth
24 Badges
Mar 26, 2014
1.448
25
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Surviving Mars
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
the only thing that hierocratic seems to br better than temporal is excommunication and that you do not have to grant the religious head title with a bishopric to make him theocracy
 

junassa

General
54 Badges
May 10, 2017
2.043
1.202
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
On one save I have about 20 venerated ancestors. One character had a 200+ grateful bonus. There may also be a bug such that non dynast also will be grateful for veneration but I'm not sure. So yeah I always run with temporal + veneration.

(As an aside my highest 0 year child's pc was 149 and she wasn't even in my mainline; this wasn't all due to veneration as I had a ton of historical + CoD bloodlines as well).

I'm going to take this opportunity to once again promote using mods so you can take more doctrines. Nine is probably overkill but 4 is a good number as it reserves variability.

edit: also I think there's a mod for allowing temporal to have excomm, if that's your jam. Never really felt the need to use it, until my current run. AI formed Kingdom of Mali on me, that rat bastard. I can always force vassalize and revoke but I don't want my HO getting mad and leaving, so I have to do it the old fashioned way and get claims (hopefully ducal level).
 

Dimitri Cosmos

Captain
51 Badges
Dec 7, 2018
357
61
dimitricosmos.artstation.com
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Magicka 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Surviving Mars
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • King Arthur II
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
On one save I have about 20 venerated ancestors. [..] (As an aside my highest 0 year child's pc was 149 and she wasn't even in my mainline; this wasn't all due to veneration as I had a ton of historical + CoD bloodlines as well)..

Cool. I'm working on that. Although, by this point, I have so many venerated ancestors that I'm starting to lose interest in ensuring they have living descendants. There already more of them than I can keep track of.
 

DPS

Field Marshal
22 Badges
Feb 4, 2002
4.243
622
Visit site
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Deus Vult
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
I don't know; I think it's actually a pretty tough call. In my current game, I reformed Slavic with temporal, and in several hundred years, I've only called 1 GHW; I think it can be argued that GHWs are over-rated, but OTOH, I would almost certainly have called more in difference circumstances in my game, and other players would likely have a different playstyle than I do anyway.
 

MateuszS

General
70 Badges
Mar 31, 2015
2.222
1.079
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury Pre-order
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma Pre-order
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Darkest Hour
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars Pre-Order
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
On the other hand puppet pagan pope gives eccomunication and title claims. Do you have prisoner who can't be executed without incurring tyranny or powerful vassal who can't be normally cut down to size? Excommunication. Your potential friend was excommunicated? "Persuade" the pope to lift excommunication and you have new ally. You can make OP character without stacking "blessed ancestor" bloodlines (although I'm fairly sure that religion reformer should be venerated no matter what).