Technology

[Zuckergußgebäck]

What do you mean? If it doesn´t work, we´ll simply keep fixing it until it does. That´s how TGW was made, and that is how 1914 will be done.

 

[StephenT]

Well, for the Naval tech tree I took the systematic approach of "taking the HoI2 naval tech tree and renaming the sub-techs without actually changing any of their categories."

 

[Zuckergußgebäck]

StephenT will now get a cookie

 

[Zanza]

What do you mean? If it doesn´t work, we´ll simply keep fixing it until it does. That´s how TGW was made, and that is how 1914 will be done.

That's just not the way I would do it. Then again, I don't do it, so why do I care.

 

[Allenby]

Combined_arms_focus - Newfangled ideas

Of course, newfangled ideas would be a doctrine component, only issued to a limited number of teams (such as von Hutier, for example).

Could you elaborate on what exactly this entails?

If it is simply a matter of coordination between artillery, infantry and aeroplanes into a single doctrine of fighting then I'd suggest that 'combined arms' is a perfectly suitable name.

 

[Zuckergußgebäck]

It is when a general goes against the stream of what all other generals in his country/the world thinks, in essence beeing (sucessfully) unconventional.

 

[Allenby]

That sounds like a very vague concept, almost akin with "the ability of a general to sense an opportunity in battle that might turn the course of events when senior staff officers advise a more cautious approach" or "the instinctive decision of a policymaker to authorise the establishment of some body that makes the running of the war more efficient"

I'm not sure that 'new' ideas need particular expression in a technology tree, when the rationale of the tree in the first place is the representation of new ideas and articles, whether they are conventional, somewhat unconventional or downright bizarre. My opinion is that combined arms is quite suitable.

 

[Zuckergußgebäck]

The problem is of course that there was no such thing as combined arms operations during the war, as the western front sadly showed. Surely, newfangled ideas is a better name?

 

[StephenT]

The problem is of course that there was no such thing as combined arms operations during the war, as the western front sadly showed. Surely, newfangled ideas is a better name?

So what would you call the use of aircraft to spot targets for the artillery, which lays down a creeping barrage to cover the advance of the tanks which break through the wire and clear a path for the infantry to advance, if not combined arms?

I think that skill in "newfangled ideas" or (blue sky thinking, to use a more modern term) might be better represented by a high research skill, not a speciality.

 

[Zuckergußgebäck]

The main problem was that these concentric attacks usually failed because of poor coordination.

 

[Allenby]

The main problem was that these concentric attacks usually failed because of poor coordination.

Tactical 'Failures' such as Arras, Vimy Ridge, Michael, Mars, Georgette and Amiens?

 

[Zuckergußgebäck]

Never heard of 'em (well, apart from Arras and Vimy ridge, but I don´t know who won them).

But if you are to ut it in as 'Combined arms focus', can you promise that it will only be issued to a limited number of teams, such as von Hutier?

 

[Gwalcmai]

The problem is of course that there was no such thing as combined arms operations during the war, as the western front sadly showed. Surely, newfangled ideas is a better name?

An extract of the account of the Battle of Cambrai, 1917, taken from http://www.firstworldwar.com/battles/cambrai.htm:

The attack was duly launched at dawn on the morning of 20 November 1917, with all available tanks advancing across a 10 km front. 476 tanks were accompanied by six infantry and two cavalry divisions (the latter to exploit any breakthrough), plus a further 1,000 guns. 14 newly formed squadrons of the Royal Flying Corps stood by - a forerunner of the blitzkrieg tactics employed to great effect by the German army during the Second World War. Notably the attack was not preceded by a preliminary bombardment, helping to ensure complete surprise.

Georg von der MarwitzFacing the British attack was the German Second Army led by Georg von der Marwitz. Within hours the lightly defended Germans were forced back some 6 km to Cambrai, the three trench systems of the Hindenburg Line pierced for the first time in the war.

The British achieved success all along the line, bar at Flesquieres (at the centre of the attack), where 51st Highland divisional commander Harper had determined not to work in tandem with tank commanders, suspicious of tank technology. Approximately 8,000 prisoners and 100 guns were captured on the first day alone.

Fuller and his "newfangled ideas", tsk, tsk.

Compared to Cambrai the tactics used in Michael, Georgette and 2nd Marne were rather unimaginative. Just a quick and dirty shelling and throwing infantry onto the lines.

 

[Allenby]

But if you are to ut it in as 'Combined arms focus', can you promise that it will only be issued to a limited number of teams, such as von Hutier?

You're the one writing the tech teams, Kenny, not me.

 

[Zuckergußgebäck]

Yes, I know that.
After all, it doesn´t matter what you call a speciality. After all, we can rename electronics to 'fluffy pink bunny shoes construction', and it wouldn´t be any real difference

 

[KingMississippi]

OK ... I am back to work on the brigade/cavalry/armor techs ... I have placed Gendarmerie (Police) back into the Infantry techs. Additionnally I have lowered the AAA brigades from 4 to 3 units with dates of 1916, 1918, 1920. Also I have moved the tank detachments back 1 year apiece to 1917, 1918, 1919, and 1920. They will all require high skill level teams as I plan on making the subtechs in the range of 8 to 9 with a final double time tech for the prototype.

Additionally I liked the idea of having different final techs for different areas. I know in vanilla HOI2 that all vehicles are better researched by teams with technical efficiency so that even aircraft companies can research tanks. I think we need to revisit the names of all skills or decide that the final tech needs to be what the unit is not a generic tech eff.
For example say you are researching infantry ... instead of having training as the final tech category make it Infantry training this way you cant use an aircraft tech team to research infantry or so on and so forth.

 

[Allenby]

Good to hear. I've still not taken receipt of the first set of technology work that you have done - are you sure you sent them to the right email address?

 

[KingMississippi]

I sent you a zip file and this time i didnt get a message sent back as undeliverable. DSW6000(a)hotmail.com right?

 

[KingMississippi]

To further elaborate on tech abilities here is my 2-cents worth.
Artillery (Artillery)
Automotive Mechanics (Mechanics)

changed to automotive mechanics instead of mechanics to further specialize the field. Automotive mechanics will only be used for land based units and thus make the tech team that has that specialty more specialized​

Electronics (Electronics)
Chemistry (Chemistry)
Training (Training)
General Equipment (General Equipment)
Chemical Warfare (Rocketry)

we are not using rockets in TGW but we need something to simulate gas research.​

Naval Engineering (Naval Engineering)
Aircraft Mechanics (Aeronautics)

Renaming aeronautics to aircraft mechanics actually expands the usage of this tech specialty as aeronautics is more the design and aircraft mechanics is a combination of the vanilla mechanics and aeronautics specialties. again this is to further specialize tech teams.​

Tank Research (Nuclear Physics)

this specialty replace nuclear physics and will be used to further increase the difficulty of researching armor ahead of schedule as VERY few tech teams will actually have this specialty.​

Anti-submarine Research (Nuclear Engineering)

anti-submarine warfare will replace nuclear engineering. this is actually a doctrinal specialty to symbolize the "new-fangled" submarine warfare that had to be dealt with during TGW timeline.​

Industrial Management (Management)

Industrial Management is another specialty that has been further defined. It is now a solely industrial tech instead of being involved in almost every tech.​

Industrial Engineering (Industrial Engineering)
Mathematics (Mathematics)
Small Unit Tactics (Small Unit Tactics)
Large Unit Tactics (Large Unit Tactics)
Centralized Execution (Centralized Execution)
Decentralized Execution (Decentralized Execution)
Technical Efficiency (Technical Efficiency)
Individual Courage (Individual Courage)
Infantry Focus (Infantry Focus)
Combined Arms Focus (Combined Arms Focus)
Large Unit Focus (Large Unit Focus)
Naval Artillery (Naval Artillery)
Naval Training (Naval Training)
Aircraft Testing (Aircraft Testing)
Pilot Training (Fighter Tactics)

Pilot Training will replace fighter tactics as the methods of training were undefined and unsystemized during TGW and I think that determining training methods for pilots is more realistic than splitting between specialized bomber and fighter tactics.​

Pilot Tactics (Bomber Tactics)

Pilot tactics is a combination of bomber and fighter tactics specialization​

Taskforce Tactics (Large Taskforce Tactics)

Taskforce tactics is the specialization for all tactics for fleet warfare from squadron up to Jutland size battles.​

Raider Tactics (Small Taskforce Tactics)

Raider Tactics are tactics developed for individual raiding warships​

Seamanship (Seamanship)
Piloting (Piloting)
Submarine Tactics (Submarine Tactics)
Convoy Tactics (Carrier Tactics)

Convoy Tactics are tactics developed for protection against submarines and individual raiders developed during TGW timeline.​

The red names are the vanilla HOI2 tech specialties ... the regular words are what I think they should be.

 

[Shadow Knight]

Since we already have chemistry perhaps we do not necessarily need 'Chemical Warfare'. It sounds doctrine like. I'd imagine chemical techs (that are not soley industrial related) would be a kind of mix between chemistry, industrial engineering (to simulate mass production of the highly toxic chemicals), industrial management (maybe?), and general equipment (for the counter items such as the gas mask and the distribution items such as the early gas release mechanisms...this tech might be replaced by the artillery tech for the advanced shells that released chemicals).

[edit] Unless this would be the tech that would be augmented by building 'rocket facilities' (which will be replaced by chemical plants). In which case that's fine.