Technologically advanced minors in '36

[incognitus]

Hi guys!

Playing Germany seems like work to me, so I am more interested in playing minors. I have played a short Portugal campaign (ran out of steam, wanted something new) and Turkey campaign (still going, but I still want something new) so far and for obvious reasons authoritarian regimes make for the most interesting minors, as they get ready for war a lot faster than others. I'd still love to play an Ireland game, but the prospect of sitting here for years until my neutrality is worn down, is just not my idea of fun. Plus Ireland is super-backwards tech-wise...

Which are the most advanced minors in '36?

 

[Kovax]

Sorry, but other than Italy, which is a semi-major, and either Japan or Nat. China, which are also borderline or potential majors, just about all of the industrialized minor countries are handled similarly. In essence, they've got similar techs, similar leadership, and in a lot of cases, not too dissimilar IC.

In the original release (as horrendously buggy as it was), the various minors had some real flavor, with Cores that mattered, significant and realistic differences in Relations between neighbors, and a few tech differences to set them apart. After the game was completely overhauled to remove the major issues, it also removed 90% of the "flavor" from the minor countries. All Relations were set to 75 between non-aligned countries, and 0 between faction members and everyone else, with a few exceptions (Italy, for example, starting at an absurd 200 Relations with Germany), stripping away almost all pretenses of historical accuracy. In my opinion, the SF expansion was about the last time that it made any significant difference which minor you played.

As for options: Sweden, Brazil, Argentina, Romania, Hungary, Australia, or Canada make for decent games as a minor, and they're virtually interchangeable to a large degree, except for location (with Hungary being completely landlocked, and Argentina or Brazil's expansionism being heavily constrained by the US' Monroe Doctrine).

Problem is, while some of them can make for a great game for the first 4-6 years, if you don't play GER, they almost inevitably do something monumentally stupid and throw the game in 41-43, like pulling most of their combat units off the Soviet front, leading to the SU marching into Berlin almost unopposed. I've NEVER had a game where AI Germany won or even put up a credible defense beyond early '43, and most times they've failed miserably in some spectacularly stupid manner by '42. That sort of makes it pointless to play anyone else, because no matter which country you play or how well (or badly) you do, Germany is probably going to lose anyway.

 

[markkur]

Which are the most advanced minors in '36?

I don't think there is much difference in Regionals. Minors and Micros...I've not played. <imo> Infantry is the game and for me, every country's INF I've seen is to 36 and I've yet to see any variation. Going from there, because of INF Techs, INF Equipment, INF Support Brigades, INF Land Doctrines, Radios and base things likes MP and 3 Supply Techs, there is not much freedom in playing a non-major. I've tried Turkey, Romania, Hungary and now Canada and it always feels I must do the very same thing. Because, once I've knocked out a few non-majors I know I will face the Big-boys and I want to stand a chance.

So far, it has turned out that I can field a up-to-date Land-force with good support units, and fighting with Radios, good Doctrines and Supply but cannot do much else. I'm not expert but from what I can tell, that's about is good as it can get for me in this game. It is an historical game and intended.

 

[Palmerdale]

Some of the game design choices also limit the ability to play an enjoyable game. The decision to prohibit any combat in South America without invoking the US effectively limits playing any South American nation. I suppose this is supposed to be an implementation of the Monroe Doctrine (1823) (and Roosevelt Corollary (1898) and/or the Clarke Memorandum (1928)). These claimed America's right to intervene to protect New World countries from Old World powers. How this applies to Argentina attacking Uruguay or Brazil invading Bolivia, I don't quite understand, but South American countries can't attack their neighbors in this game without risking war with the US as well.

 

[marxianTJ]

Well, it's weird that *that* particular mechanism remains in the game (the US was *extremely interventionist throughout this period - particularly with Haiti, Cuba, and Nicaragua) - but all of the pacts and procedures regulating European wars aren't in place (for example, Hungary's pact of Eternal Friendship, or the USSR's Non-aggression pacts with *all* of its neighbors).

 

[SirArthur]

Some of the game design choices also limit the ability to play an enjoyable game. The decision to prohibit any combat in South America without invoking the US effectively limits playing any South American nation. I suppose this is supposed to be an implementation of the Monroe Doctrine (1823) (and Roosevelt Corollary (1898) and/or the Clarke Memorandum (1928)). These claimed America's right to intervene to protect New World countries from Old World powers. How this applies to Argentina attacking Uruguay or Brazil invading Bolivia, I don't quite understand, but South American countries can't attack their neighbors in this game without risking war with the US as well.

The game is designed around "DOW Germany no matter what it does and ignore everything else". So naturally the options are limited.

Hi guys!
Which are the most advanced minors in '36?

I go for Spain, Brazil, Canada, Australia and Belgium, Netherlands, Poland and Czechoslovakia if you are in for the action.

 

[yamato2cz]

Some of the game design choices also limit the ability to play an enjoyable game. The decision to prohibit any combat in South America without invoking the US effectively limits playing any South American nation. I suppose this is supposed to be an implementation of the Monroe Doctrine (1823) (and Roosevelt Corollary (1898) and/or the Clarke Memorandum (1928)). These claimed America's right to intervene to protect New World countries from Old World powers. How this applies to Argentina attacking Uruguay or Brazil invading Bolivia, I don't quite understand, but South American countries can't attack their neighbors in this game without risking war with the US as well.

well, i sucessfully defeated US as brazil. it took some time, but after that i had americas. and it wasnt even that much work.

 

[Afganitia]

Czecoslovakia. Good techs including mot, 8 lsp points. Nice army, defeat germans for more ls. Plenty recommendable.

 

[markkur]

but South American countries can't attack their neighbors in this game without risking war with the US as well.

I did a test run as Argentina and it's even worse than that. Not only is it not possible to avoid the US in expanding, due to transport and even updated destroyers range-limitations, it is not possible to reach anywhere else; like island-hop to get in range of Portugal. I've seen a Brazil LP so must be possible with them...unless some mod was made.

 

[incognitus]

I did a test run as Argentina and it's even worse than that. Not only is it not possible to avoid the US in expanding, due to transport and even updated destroyers range-limitations, it is not possible to reach anywhere else; like island-hop to get in range of Portugal. I've seen a Brazil LP so must be possible with them...unless some mod was made.

One can definitely reach Cap Verde from Brazil and DOW Portugal, take the islands and rebase fleets there. From there you can reach Madeira (also Portugese) and rebase again. Next stop: Portugal. You can also hop from one Portugese colony in Africa to the next all the way down to South Africa.

 

[markkur]

One can definitely reach Cap Verde from Brazil and DOW Portugal, take the islands and rebase fleets there. From there you can reach Madeira (also Portugese) and rebase again. Next stop: Portugal. You can also hop from one Portugese colony in Africa to the next all the way down to South Africa.

Yes, that was the ticket. Thanks.

 

[Palmerdale]

So, that Cap Verde trick gives Brazil someplace to attack. But what about any of the other countries in South America?

 

[incognitus]

Not sure how many of them can reach Cap Verde... but I'd imagine you could reach Ecuador (not guaranteed by US), then Cuba, Haiti and Dom Rep (also not guaranteed) and from there you should be able to reach the Azores or Cap Verde... hopefully, didn't try it. In any case you should always buy a Landing Craft licence from Japan or the UK (depending who you're friendlier with), they have 3500km range.

 

[SirArthur]

Hmm. Just a stupid question. You can't get from Argentina to Ecuador (distance too large), but can you get military access through another country like Chile or Peru and then go for Ecuador ?

 

[incognitus]

I'm not sure if you can rebase in a harbour you only have transit rights for...

 

[yamato2cz]

Hmm. Just a stupid question. You can't get from Argentina to Ecuador (distance too large), but can you get military access through another country like Chile or Peru and then go for Ecuador ?

cant.must have some actuall acces to to desired country. border of your own country or puppet. or have naval range enough.

 

[Palmerdale]

cant.must have some actuall acces to to desired country. border of your own country or puppet. or have naval range enough.

Definitely can't attack from another countries territory. I spent a lot of time moving an army through Turkey towards Russia, but couldn't attack from terrirotry that wasn't mine. If I took a province (or an ally took a province, I can move from the transit access into the 'friendly' territory and attack from there. Naval and Air units are considered as attacking from where they are based.

 

[21oliver]

When the game begins the US does not guarentee Cuba, Haiti, the Dominican Republic and Ecuador. Those nations can be attacked in the first few years with no reprisal from the US. But as the US starts to fire events (gets closer to War) they do ultimately guarentee those nations.

If You want to have fun as Brazil, join the Axis this allows you to 1) Go to War with the Allies in 1939, 2) Get lend lease from 3 nations (Send troops and a fleet to Italy and take Gibraltar as soon as the war starts, it allows Italian LL to keep flowing) and PL's...