Tech penalty for not having institution that hasn't spawned yet

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Chagall

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Hey all,

I have a question about institutions. Is it WAI if you get a 15% tech penalty for not having printing press embraced when the institution hasn't spawned yet?
If it is not a bug what is the logic behind it?

Thanks in advance!

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Nostalgium

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Working as designed and intended. The new system is intended to make it harder to pull drastically ahead, only for it to then become magically harder for everyone to catch up once a certain institution spawns. This way, it's harder for everyone to research, say, Tech 13 before Printing Press, rather than it suddenly becoming harder for Indians to research Tech 11 when it hits.
 
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Chagall

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Working as designed and intended. The new system is intended to make it harder to pull drastically ahead, only for it to then become magically harder for everyone to catch up once a certain institution spawns. This way, it's harder for everyone to research, say, Tech 13 before Printing Press, rather than it suddenly becoming harder for Indians to research Tech 11 when it hits.

So their is a soft cap for every tech? As in from tech 13 onward Printing press will count even if it didn't spawn yet, tech 18.. (as example) next instituion etc?
 
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Nostalgium

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Yep! All in all, I prefer it to the old system. It never made sense to me that Standardized Pikes became harder to research in Mexico because Gutenberg printed a book in Europe.
 
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Vin55

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It is not working as intended because the malus appears before the institution is spawnend, sometimes this modifier comes ten Years too soon.
 
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Nostalgium

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It is not working as intended because the malus appears before the institution is spawnend, sometimes this modifier comes ten Years too soon.
But it is working as intended, because the techs now rely on the institutions inherently. If you removed that, you'd have the same situation where say tech 15 magically becomes much harder to obtain after printing press has spawned, when spawning and embracing that institution should logically make tech progression easier. The game is saying "This institution makes researching tech [X] and up easier". That is true whether you don't have it because it hasn't spawned, or don't have it because it hasn't spread to your area of the world yet.
 
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BoomKidneyShot

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It is not working as intended because the malus appears before the institution is spawnend, sometimes this modifier comes ten Years too soon.

What it means is that your country lacks the intellectual framework so the tech is harder to research.

Think of it like this. Figuring out general relativity was hard. Figuring it out when you don't know what Newtonian mechanics is would be even harder.
 
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FrogCrusher

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Old system = take tech asap, spawn institution later
New system = delay taking tech as much as possible, spawn institution when you can
The philosophy on tech strategy is reversed with the new system. While it's not that bad, it brings disadvantages to the AI that lost huge bulks of points in taking tech to ahead. And it's a little bit harder to stack inno.
 

Sidolowka

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Fun fact that you can now completely freeze the world's technological advancements by preventing Global Trade from spawning.

In previous patches you could use the 'no level 2 centre of trades in highest value node' trick, but the devs patched that out in the beta by allowing level 1 centres to spawn GT after 1630 as well iirc.

One caveat though is that there is ONE node in the game with no trade centres — Siberia — which only has a single river estuary in Mangazea. If you can manage to stuff enough cash into Siberia with Oirat for example, you can indefinitely postpone GT, meaning the entire world is now stuck in technological limbo.

Fun stuff.
 
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MatthewP

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Fun fact that you can now completely freeze the world's technological advancements by preventing Global Trade from spawning.

In previous patches you could use the 'no level 2 centre of trades in highest value node' trick, but the devs patched that out in the beta by allowing level 1 centres to spawn GT after 1630 as well iirc.

One caveat though is that there is ONE node in the game with no trade centres — Siberia — which only has a single river estuary in Mangazea. If you can manage to stuff enough cash into Siberia with Oirat for example, you can indefinitely postpone GT, meaning the entire world is now stuck in technological limbo.

Fun stuff.
Cool. Also seems like sort of a reasonable consequence of most sequences of events that end with Siberia as the trade capital of the world. Like, “What, all I did was turn half the planet into burning piles of skulls and you’re telling me technological progress is somehow gonna be slower?!”
 
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grotaclas

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In previous patches you could use the 'no level 2 centre of trades in highest value node' trick, but the devs patched that out in the beta by allowing level 1 centres to spawn GT after 1630 as well iirc.
The condition for level 1 centers of trade after 1630 has been in the game since patch 1.30. But you can still prevent global trade by just giving all centers of trade in the highest valued trade node to other countries while you maintain the highest trade power share in the node. You can for example give them to vassals and then use the subject interaction to get all their trade power.
 
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