Hello guys, I have some suggestions to improve the current tech groups system.
I think there are two problems with the way the current system works.
1)It's not dynamic at all. A tech groups is kind of a property your country has, or hasn't. It doesn't matter if you are a province in Ireland's countryside or if you are Milan. Since both of you are western, you'll pay the same for technology.
2)Westernization kind that makes no sense. You spend some monarch points, kill some rebels, and boom! Now you are western. And you still are technologically backwards after westernization. The system is so odd, that for eastern nations it is not even worth to westernize, because if you wait to be 8 tech levels behind a neighbor, and spend monarch points on the process, you'll end up WORSE in terms of tech than if you did not. I think this is sound evidence that the current westernization system do not work well.
Don't get me wrong, I do think that westernization should be hard. Way harder than it is right now. But I also think that it should be worth the effort, and sometimes it just isn't. So, I have two suggestions that would add complexity to the tech system, and give way more options to the player.
A) Take out tech groups, and replace it with a variable value, like prestige or legitimacy.
Yeah that is right, you could replace the tech groups with a variable value affecting tech cost, that would change slowly with time, like prestige (but slower). For now, let's call it "innovation" points. This value would represent how open your country is to new ideas, and to modernizing. And, of course, would dictate how much you pay for your tech.
That way, instead of just putting nations in static tech groups, that spontaneously make them better or worse at teching up, you could just give a high innovation rating to countries in places like Italy or Britain (equivalent to +0% tech cost) and a lower one to, let's say Marrocco (equivalent to a +50% tech cost, for example).
I thought about 3 ways by which the number of "innovation points" of a nation could change over time.
-First, by ideas and policies. This would give backward nations such as the Asian ones incentive to actively put effort to try to slowly bring their tech cost to better levels. It would be a way more realistic way of trying to stay or get modern than just jumping into the western tech group. And it would take (a long) time instead of being a abrupt change, as it is right now.
-Second, a standard deterioration per year of the "innovation points", like it is for military tradition for example.
-A yearly change based in the innovation level of you neighbors and your relations with them (and this is the coolest one). Lets say you are Granada, and you manage to survive and have friendly relations with Spain and Portugal. You should receive a bit of innovation per year, to represent the inflow of ideas from the more modern countries to yours. It would make easier for nations close to more developed nations to modernize. Also, if your nations is an enclave of enlightenment surrounded by barbarians, you should get an extra small deterioration, to represent the influence of your primitive neighbors on you (at the same time they get a bonus to represent how much they improve by having contact with your modern ideas!). This could make easier for an Asian nation with friendly relations to an European colony to modernize, than to a nation with hostile relations to the same colonies. It would be cool if protectorates get a bonus as well.
It would just be a matter of "calibrating" (or balancing) how much a nation improves its innovation level from a neighbor, with how much it deteriorates per year, to avoid modernity to spread quickly trough the world.
B)Make westernization be like reform is for native Americans, but way, way harder.
Ok, so lets say you are an Indian minor, and that you get friends with a European power who put some colonies right by your side. Them you decide that with their help, you will westernize. The way it is right now, you will have some small trouble, nothing to hard, but will end up just as technologically backward as you were before, or even more, since you will not be able to tech up as you westernize. If you change the tech groups to the variable points I suggested, it would be cool to make westernizing being about trying to compensate the technological backwardness of your country in a small period of time (as it was in real life).
Let me explain. You get friendly relations with a more developed guy, and click westernize. After that, you start to get MASSIVE unrest, and spend LOTS of money. If you manage to survive the process, your tech levels get to 80% of the country from which you westernized. It would make westernization worth, but as I said it should be extremely hard, even for good players. Like an "all or nothing" thing.
What do you guys think? For sure this is not a perfect system, but maybe it is a good first iteration. How do you guys think it could be improved? Do you have another ideas to improve the tech system? I think this is one of the aspects of the game everybody fells should improve, but don't actually know how (the other being naval warfare). Give you opinions folks, let's brainstorm!
I think there are two problems with the way the current system works.
1)It's not dynamic at all. A tech groups is kind of a property your country has, or hasn't. It doesn't matter if you are a province in Ireland's countryside or if you are Milan. Since both of you are western, you'll pay the same for technology.
2)Westernization kind that makes no sense. You spend some monarch points, kill some rebels, and boom! Now you are western. And you still are technologically backwards after westernization. The system is so odd, that for eastern nations it is not even worth to westernize, because if you wait to be 8 tech levels behind a neighbor, and spend monarch points on the process, you'll end up WORSE in terms of tech than if you did not. I think this is sound evidence that the current westernization system do not work well.
Don't get me wrong, I do think that westernization should be hard. Way harder than it is right now. But I also think that it should be worth the effort, and sometimes it just isn't. So, I have two suggestions that would add complexity to the tech system, and give way more options to the player.
A) Take out tech groups, and replace it with a variable value, like prestige or legitimacy.
Yeah that is right, you could replace the tech groups with a variable value affecting tech cost, that would change slowly with time, like prestige (but slower). For now, let's call it "innovation" points. This value would represent how open your country is to new ideas, and to modernizing. And, of course, would dictate how much you pay for your tech.
That way, instead of just putting nations in static tech groups, that spontaneously make them better or worse at teching up, you could just give a high innovation rating to countries in places like Italy or Britain (equivalent to +0% tech cost) and a lower one to, let's say Marrocco (equivalent to a +50% tech cost, for example).
I thought about 3 ways by which the number of "innovation points" of a nation could change over time.
-First, by ideas and policies. This would give backward nations such as the Asian ones incentive to actively put effort to try to slowly bring their tech cost to better levels. It would be a way more realistic way of trying to stay or get modern than just jumping into the western tech group. And it would take (a long) time instead of being a abrupt change, as it is right now.
-Second, a standard deterioration per year of the "innovation points", like it is for military tradition for example.
-A yearly change based in the innovation level of you neighbors and your relations with them (and this is the coolest one). Lets say you are Granada, and you manage to survive and have friendly relations with Spain and Portugal. You should receive a bit of innovation per year, to represent the inflow of ideas from the more modern countries to yours. It would make easier for nations close to more developed nations to modernize. Also, if your nations is an enclave of enlightenment surrounded by barbarians, you should get an extra small deterioration, to represent the influence of your primitive neighbors on you (at the same time they get a bonus to represent how much they improve by having contact with your modern ideas!). This could make easier for an Asian nation with friendly relations to an European colony to modernize, than to a nation with hostile relations to the same colonies. It would be cool if protectorates get a bonus as well.
It would just be a matter of "calibrating" (or balancing) how much a nation improves its innovation level from a neighbor, with how much it deteriorates per year, to avoid modernity to spread quickly trough the world.
B)Make westernization be like reform is for native Americans, but way, way harder.
Ok, so lets say you are an Indian minor, and that you get friends with a European power who put some colonies right by your side. Them you decide that with their help, you will westernize. The way it is right now, you will have some small trouble, nothing to hard, but will end up just as technologically backward as you were before, or even more, since you will not be able to tech up as you westernize. If you change the tech groups to the variable points I suggested, it would be cool to make westernizing being about trying to compensate the technological backwardness of your country in a small period of time (as it was in real life).
Let me explain. You get friendly relations with a more developed guy, and click westernize. After that, you start to get MASSIVE unrest, and spend LOTS of money. If you manage to survive the process, your tech levels get to 80% of the country from which you westernized. It would make westernization worth, but as I said it should be extremely hard, even for good players. Like an "all or nothing" thing.
What do you guys think? For sure this is not a perfect system, but maybe it is a good first iteration. How do you guys think it could be improved? Do you have another ideas to improve the tech system? I think this is one of the aspects of the game everybody fells should improve, but don't actually know how (the other being naval warfare). Give you opinions folks, let's brainstorm!
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