Tax collect...AAARGH

[WaltherModel]

I voted for "Nearby allied heroes will get the gold. If no heroes are nearby the gold is lost (MFKS1)."

However, the last option of the monster getting the gold is intriguing, also the tombstone to be looted by the rogues is another good twist. Basically anything that pro-actively deals with the gold in a realistic way (it's not like once the tax collector dies, that bag of money will just vanish in thin air...nearby heroes of course take it, or the monster will (I assume they like shiny objects). Splitting it between nearby monsters or heroes works too...just if they make any change, it should be with a sound argument to sell the point, then I can buy into it as long as there is some believability, not just "it disappears" which makes no sense.

 

[Elder Fogcrow]

Originally posted by Analad
If that (detail) needs to be changed then a hero death should be changed too. I wonder why it's focused on Tax Collector as the current rule isn't. I don't remember how it worked in M1.

this ''detail'' has huge impact on gameplay and game atmosphere

by the way, a heroes death is already handled differently: they leave tombstones, which can be looted, and, if resurrected by the agrela spell, they get to keep their gold.

 

[Analad]

Lol that has a huge impact?

In case of hero death I don't see where is the realism, where goes the gold when the hero go to cemetery??? I wonder how you can find this "realist" and not the tax collector thing.

 

[DorthLous]

Analad, ENOUGH!

Your point is not worth more than anyone else. It was different in M1. People don't like it in M2 (6.45% at this moment). People are pretty much in agreement they'd rather have it go to the killing monster / nearby monster (58.06%). That's what the people, aka, the ones that took the time to register an account and vote seems to think for now. You are ONE voice. It'd be nice if in every single thread, you wouldn't come close to 1/3 of the posts, sometime multi-posting to answer 3-4 posts in a row. I'm pretty certain everyone agrees here, not that we don't care about your opinion, but that we care just as much about yours as everyone else who hasn't contributed to the community, any other non-paradox/ino-co member or any non-mods. Those people hold greater sway, but that's it and even them, if they flooded topic, might even get on people's nerve. So just back off a bit, ok? Stop going after ChienAboyeur or whatever, stop countering everyone who disagrees with you post by post on principle, stop acting as if your opinion mattered most (It's not important. Oh? Who said so? You?) and stop flooding.

Thank you.

 

[ItsEggrollTime]

Giving the gold to the monster doesn't feel right...where does a bear or wolf keep gold anyway? I like the tombstone idea, it accomplishes the same thing but isn't as over the top.

 

[Hassat Hunter]

They generally don't kill Tax Collectors anyway.

But in case they do, where do they keep the 25/10 gold they currently have? Or is that profit from teeth/fur sells and stuff?

 

[ItsEggrollTime]

From a gameplay standpoint giving monsters gold works. I was just being picky over an unimportant detail It just always seemed weird to me.

 

[unmerged(169231)]

I agree that the monster getting the gold is the most logical alternative, but if that monster is a simple one - like a rat - is a simple rat smart enough to search the tax collector for gold? Unless the simple rats got a new level of sentience... There are a lot of mindless creatures in the game that shouldn't care about gold

This is why I vote for the MFKS1 style, or at least a style based on the enemy that killed the tax collector.

 

[Hassat Hunter]

Well, they ARE spies for the Ratman (according to MFKS1 that is)...

 

[unmerged(169164)]

Wow. I guess there's always been something to hit on my maps... I usually don't "experiment" like that to see what happens

I am a bit lost. I tested on Majesty to check for this feature.

Now I am unsure if people speak about ratmen in Majesty or in Majesty 2 when it comes to retreat.

It seems to me that ratmen are not spawned by lairs in Majesty 2, only by sewers.

To add, ratmen run back to a lair even when there is something to hit on the map (this in Majesty of course)

They can pop out of a lair and return to it immediately.

/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

As to rat kind behaviours, it seems to me that they are explained by the magic waters in Ardania or something.

 

[unmerged(171578)]

there was no lair for ratmen in majesty 1 untill the northern expansion

 

[unmerged(169164)]

And?

 

[Hassat Hunter]

Now I am unsure if people speak about ratmen in Majesty or in Majesty 2 when it comes to retreat.

MFKS1. Although it would be nice for MFKS2 as well.

Now they are just in zerg-mode like all the other monsters, with the difference that they (as well as Dragons for some reason) prioritize tax collectors and marketplaces to attack.

 

[Spiderman]

Yeah, I do. But not always are they (Ratman) dead before fleeing the scene.

Weird. Like I said, I've never seen my Ratmen flee.

You've got "The Mighty Dragon" and "Tomb of the Dragon King" mixed up . It's just a regular ordinary dragon in the Tomb.

Oops. But I still thought it was a scripted behavior designed for the mission.

Those from lairs can. Obviously the ones spawned from the sides of the map not. Maybe you should play more maps with Dragon Lairs and study them .

Maybe. Like I said, in my experience, the dragons fight until they die, I haven't seen any fleeing. But I'll try some dragon maps.

Wooo yes master I obey.... Don't you feel ridiculous? I don't care be in minority and that's not like that you'll gt anything.

Like I said in the other thread, count me in agreeing with DorthLous. You aren't doing anything to help your cause, if there's any.

It seems to me that ratmen are not spawned by lairs in Majesty 2, only by sewers.

To add, ratmen run back to a lair even when there is something to hit on the map (this in Majesty of course)

They can pop out of a lair and return to it immediately.

Broken Sewer Mains were introduced in NE, but like I said to Hassat I've never seen them flee either back to the Main or a regular Sewer. The Ratmen either try to head immediately to the Marketplace to steal and then get caught up in fighting, or they attack a building outside the sewer (most commonly a house). Or they get attacked by a Guardhouse, since I build one right outside the Sewer if I can.

If they successfully steal from the Marketplace, they usually hit my Palace (since I build it right utside) or some other building. I haven't seen them trying to flee back to their lair, but I haven't really been paying attention.

 

[Spiderman]

Okay, I've done some testing myself.

Created a freestyle map with New Settlement, Ruins of Esterhausen, and no Wandering Monsters or Special Events. Winning condition was Gathering 160,000 gold.

First try: I created Rangers to explore the map. They found the Rat's Nest and I watched it for a LONG time (like 10 days). Initially there was a Shaman and a Ratman and all they did was mill around the lair. When the Rangers found them, there was a little battle; I think a Ranger died and another fled back to the Guild. The Shaman and Ratman followed for a bit, about halfway across the map, and then milled around some more. The Nest eventually popped out a Ratapult, another Shaman and Ratman, and they started moving towards the first group. After 10 days, I figured that if anyone would have gone back, they would have done so and quit.

Second try: This time I created a Marketplace to see if they would steal and a Rangers to explore. Pretty much the same deal, only they attacked the Marketplace and then my Palace. Quit after 15 days because no one went back to their lair.

Third try: I wanted to see what would happen with a Sewer. So I built a Marketplace, Rangers Guild, flagged and they destroyed the Rat's Nest, dismissed the Guild, and then built Inns to get a Sewer. I then destroyed everything so that all that was left was the Marketplace and took that off the Repair queue. A Ratman popped out of the Sewers, headed towards the Marketplace and stole everything, then attacked and destroyed the Marketplace and attacked the Palace, killing the Peasants that popped out to try to repair it. So I quit, figuring that he wasn't going to flee either.

Now interestedly, I started Rise of the Ratman mission and there I did see a Ratman return to his Broken Sewer Main after destroying all of the houses around it. So that and combined with the dragon mission example that Hassat mentioned earlier, I am definitely leaning towards this whole "return to lair thing" being a scripted behavior for particular missions. But I haven't tried a freestyle dragon lair yet.

Any freestyle conditions where it IS observed would be helpful to know so I can try to recreate it myself.

 

[Hassat Hunter]

Well, if you don't believe me you can always ask Grash and his Prima Guide .

 

[unmerged(169164)]

I used the same map to test the stuff.

I started with wizard hold, 30 000 gold, no events, no wandering monsters and eliminate enemies as a victory condition. I built nothing but wizard towers to use the explore spell until I found out several lairs.

Onto this, I observed several times ratmen entering lairs (evil keeps)

 

[Spiderman]

So maybe it's a certain type of lair they can return to? Not the sewer or Rat's Nest, but Broken Sewer Mains and Evil Keeps?

How long did you play for, ChienAboyeur?

 

[Spiderman]

Oh, and what was the enemy forces? You said same map so I assume the Ruins of Esterhausen but when I tried it, hordes of Ratfolk attacked the Towers. When I did manage to find Rat's Nests, no one re-entered them; they were too busy going after the Towers.

Hassat: Isn't the Prima Guide for regular and not NE? Perhaps the Ratfolk behavior was changed in NE... I tried to Google for an NE Prima Guide but nothing came up.

 

[unmerged(169164)]

Very short. I edited my message just after testing the stuff.

Ratmen went to the keeps as soon as I started to observe them.
I tried to repeat the same experiment but I did not get keeps.

Still trying.


/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

I got ruined keeps with the rat scouts setting.

Once again, I observed ratmen entering the ruined keeps.

First was around four days (not long after I discovered the keep)