Targeting specific industries with Strat bombing?

[subnormalized]

Well, I assume we can target the refineries in-game just by finding the provinces with refineries and such, but what about specifically targeting a specific type of industry, too? The idea would be to bomb the German aircraft factories or V2 production/test facilities as ENG/USA, or maybe knocking out English shipyards as GER in long-range planning for Seelowe in a post-Barbarossa world.

Here's how it would work- somewhere there would be a menu for what specific industries you target with Strat bombing. You select the type of production you want to disrupt, and the game would track how much IC you destroy in your bombing campaign. When it gets high enough, it degrades the practical production values for your beleaguered enemy in that specific category. Suddenly the Luftwaffe is dealing with parts shortages, or England is running out of usable shipyards. It might also sometimes tie into the intelligence you have on the country, since in some cases (Peenemunde) finding the factories to bomb might be problematic without any agents in-country.

So, good idea/bad idea? Can this be fit into the game as it stands, or is it too unusual an idea to fit into the models/system already in place?

Jonathan Fisher

 

[grievous5226]

I was thinking the same, but it might get abstracted.

But it'd be fun. Say if the germans were bombing your cities, and BAM! You start bombing their air factories and they can't keep building.

 

[unmerged(12217)]

I think that would be an essential addition to make the game closer to history. I'm all for it and thanks for bringing up this great idea.

 

[WWIINERD]

Well, I assume we can target the refineries in-game just by finding the provinces with refineries and such

I must have missed this in the Dev Diaries. Where did you read that there would be specific refineries that could be targeted? This is awesome I am just now hearing about it thanks to your bringing it up. Someone please advise where I can find out more about it.

I have been thinking that in HOI4, ICs should be individually associated with a certain type of production so that you can target them with strategic bombing and special operations in their specific provinces once you are able to discover them via espionage. I also think that you should be forced to associate technology developments with a specific province so that they may be targeted for disruption. Of course shipyards should be required for shipbuilding in HOI4 and they would make fat targets. This would make strategic bombing a lot more fun, it would offer great new options for intelligence, and it would also offer the opportunity to create special operations attempts.

I like your idea. Your idea might be better than mine because it seems to mesh with the HOI3 and mine would require more of a redesign.

 

[unmerged(12217)]

I do recognize that the OP was mentioning refineries and there are none in the game AFAIK, however the point is well taken...if there were a way to specify strategic bombing targets in this fashion, the game could have a list of provinces to refer to for specific targets...they need not be visible on the map, just available to the computer for target setting and BDA. This could apply to specialized factories as well.

In the case of the "symbolic" refineries, there would be a corresponding hit upon the target nations' ability to refine & produce fuel and might even reduce national stocks.

It may be that this will have to wait for a mod, but I think it would be a really good addition to the historical accuracy of the game.

 

[Grohal]

That would really give the game a better way of taking the enemy out step by step.
Maybe even going a step further and connecting this with espionage. First you have to send your spies to find out where exactly stands the factory for his planes or tanks in the province, which could - for example - raise the %-chance you actually hit what you intended to with your bombers.

 

[King]

There are no specific industries to target so this is probably not going to happen.

 

[unmerged(12217)]

There are no specific industries to target so this is probably not going to happen.

OK, so we are talking about a possible mod later on down the road then, if we want to see this in some form or another.

Dang - all these good ideas and I can't program...

 

[unmerged(54763)]

There are no specific industries to target so this is probably not going to happen.

Will rebuilding of destroyed industries require manpower and resources?

 

[King]

Will rebuilding of destroyed industries require manpower and resources?

No it happens by itself.

 

[Lazy_Boy]

And how exactly do you propose that happen when there are no specific industries? Wish there was but that's totally impossible with IC as the only variable.

 

[WWIINERD]

King, I suspect that the last thing you guys want to hear about is HOI4 right about now. But the anticipation of this game and all of the cool things that you guys are doing with it has us dreaming. Maybe you can file some of these ideas away so that in 2, 3, or 4 years when you are ready to make HOI4, you have a ready file of ideas for redesign. We are way outside the box and we are inspired to dream about this stuff now. I suspect that these forums have given you a lot of your ideas for HOI2 and HOI3. I am kinda saying this for the benefit of some of the people who are presenting some really cool ideas right now. Until the release date, it is all we have. o

Just kidding, I have a life but these games are a lot of fun and I really enjoy dreaming of how it can be better in the future.

 

[potski]

King, I suspect that the last thing you guys want to hear about is HOI4 right about now. But the anticipation of this game and all of the cool things that you guys are doing with it has us dreaming. Maybe you can file some of these ideas away so that in 2, 3, or 4 years when you are ready to make HOI4, you have a ready file of ideas for redesign. We are way outside the box and we are inspired to dream about this stuff now. I suspect that these forums have given you a lot of your ideas for HOI2 and HOI3. I am kinda saying this for the benefit of some of the people who are presenting some really cool ideas right now. Until the release date, it is all we have. o

Just kidding, I have a life but these games are a lot of fun and I really enjoy dreaming of how it can be better in the future.

King might don his best robes, step forth with a large staff in hands and proclaim:

What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun. Is there anything of which one can say, "Look! This is something new"? It was here already, long ago; it was here before our time. There is no remembrance of men of old, and even those who are yet to come will not be remembered by those who follow.

I, King, was the Teacher over Israel in Jerusalem. I devoted myself to study and to explore by wisdom all that is done under heaven. What a heavy burden God has laid on men! I have seen all the things that are done under the sun, everything in the forum; all of these "really cool ideas" are meaningless, and proposals for HOI4 are chasing after the wind. [paraphrasing Ecclesiastes 1:9-14]

 

[Premu]

Dang - all these good ideas and I can't program...

Well, special industries my fit to Victoria, but it simply doesn't fit to HOI. In HOI, you only have abstract factories in general, no aircraft, tank or luxury cloths factories. If you could take out the whole fuel production with a few raids, you must also be able to prevent this, for example by many small refineries all over the country, or by building it out of the enemy bombers range. But this would be more like Victoria. And combining the complex economical system of Victoria and the complex fighting system of HOI will lead to mircomanaging nightmare, at least for average players.

HOI should still be playable for players who don't want to micromanage every little tiny bit.

 

[warchlak]

No it happens by itself.

Thanks. We would suffer from micromanagment if something like this would be in teh game...

 

[Talquin]

if the economy was more like victoria i could see this happening. however seeing as factories are represented abstractly it wouldn't work.

 

[WWIINERD]

HOI should still be playable for players who don't want to micromanage every little tiny bit.

One of the great things that we see in the new UI and architecture for HOI3 is that they are doing an excellent job of providing options for the user to micromanage some things or to leave them to the AI.

I don’t think that it should be beyond the scope of this game to represent refining capacity since it played a crucial part in a nation’s ability to wage war and as such represented a strategic vulnerability that had to be accounted for both defensively and offensively. I think that in the future, to help with micromanagement, PI could allow you to allocate resources to defending installations through a consolidated user interface similar to what they have done with allocation of resources for intelligence. Actually there are a lot of things that could be done using that concept so that you would not be stuck micromanaging every province while these important aspects of WWII are accounted for. Major kudos to whoever designed that approach to intel management.

King might don his best robes, step forth with a large staff in hands and proclaim:

Pretty clever.

I understand that as a practical matter, PI has to draw the line somewhere on what they can feasibly accomplish in this version, but that doesn’t mean that these elements are not valid for the scope of this game. I appreciate King providing information on what is available in this version of the game. This information helps to shape the threads into discussions that might be more applicable to HOI3. But, I think that we just need to take the royal decrees with a grain of salt since he is probably really tired of hearing everything that should be in this game and maybe not enough appreciation for what is in the game. I plan to continue making of nuisance of myself thinking of what can/should be. I am rather enjoying the exercise even if it is an exercise in futility for HOI3.

 

[King]

To be honest I lot of what I do is to try and tell you what is definately not in the game. The last thing we want is threads like these to get a life of their own. They start out with "wouldn't it be great if...." move on to "well I see no reason why if shouldn't" until finally they become "Well it must be....". Then when people buy the game the game they end up a bit disapointed, because it isn't how it looked according to the forum.

 

[WWIINERD]

To be honest I lot of what I do is to try and tell you what is definately not in the game. The last thing we want is threads like these to get a life of their own. They start out with "wouldn't it be great if...." move on to "well I see no reason why if shouldn't" until finally they become "Well it must be....". Then when people buy the game the game they end up a bit disapointed, because it isn't how it looked according to the forum.

Fair enough. I expect it is a big job having to police all these threads - especially while trying not to squelch the creative genius that doth abound.

 

[Markusw7]

To be honest I lot of what I do is to try and tell you what is definately not in the game. The last thing we want is threads like these to get a life of their own. They start out with "wouldn't it be great if...." move on to "well I see no reason why if shouldn't" until finally they become "Well it must be....". Then when people buy the game the game they end up a bit disapointed, because it isn't how it looked according to the forum.

i've been trying to do this myself, i often see threads where someone is asking for/about something that you or Johan have already been clear on. I try to reiterate what you have said especially when it is a main feature of the dev diaries. Often i think people ignore you because they believe that if they(and others) post enough it will get the game changed.