Tank Variant Models ?

[DiegoVaz]

we have seen the models of tanks ships and aircraft so far
according to the dev's we can create vehicle variants ( So, for example, once you have unlocked the Panzer III tank you can research the tank destroyer variant, StuG III.- dev diary 2 TOOLS OF WAR)
so do we have different models for the variants too ?

 

[Vidkjaer]

we have seen the models of tanks ships and aircraft so far
according to the dev's we can create vehicle variants ( So, for example, once you have unlocked the Panzer III tank you can research the tank destroyer variant, StuG III.- dev diary 2 TOOLS OF WAR)
so do we have different models for the variants too ?

Either I or you have the mechanics mixed up? I dont think that you in game terms can call the AA version of the Panzer II a variant? It would call it a new design model. The variant is when you take you designmodel and increase the stats on it spending experience points.

Calling the AA version of the Panzer II a variant would be misleading in my opinion, because you are not spending experience points on it.

 

[Victor Cortez]

There have been some discussions on the forum on what is a variant, a model, a version... apparently the game doesn't give them a name.

Anyway, what happens in the game is:

-> Panzer III "A", fight a few battles, earn exp, design and build Panzer III "B", with better gun or whatever.
-> Panzer III (base model) researched, gives you the ability to research the AA version (StuG III). Fight a few battles, earn exp, design and build StuG III "B".

 

[Vidkjaer]

There have been some discussions on the forum on what is a variant, a model, a version... apparently the game doesn't give them a name.

Anyway, what happens in the game is:

-> Panzer III "A", fight a few battles, earn exp, design and build Panzer III "B", with better gun or whatever.
-> Panzer III (base model) researched, gives you the ability to research the AA version (StuG III). Fight a few battles, earn exp, design and build StuG III "B".

Isnt that what i wrote?

 

[teamgene]

Either I or you have the mechanics mixed up? I dont think that you in game terms can call the AA version of the Panzer II a variant? It would call it a new design model. The variant is when you take you designmodel and increase the stats on it spending experience points.

Calling the AA version of the Panzer II a variant would be misleading in my opinion, because you are not spending experience points on it.

From what I could see in the Wednesday game, the AA was a variant under the Panzer II that could be researched, so assume after researching could use experience to add it to a division. My question would be is it a support company or part of a battalion? Same with the Wespe?

My favorite variant to see is the Pz IIIJ1

 

[Victor Cortez]

Isnt that what i wrote?

I suppose it is, but for someone who has not been following development very closely it might be confusing.

 

[Jmland]

-> Panzer III (base model) researched, gives you the ability to research the AA version (StuG III). Fight a few battles, earn exp, design and build StuG III "B".

I hope by "AA" you are not referring to "Ant-Aircraft (Artillery)" in ref to the StuGIII. The Stug was an Assault Gun (Sturm Geschutze= StuG). There was an AAA variant of the Pzr3 which I "think" was called Whipperwill or something like that (or maybe it was Ostwind, can't remember....)

 

[bruebottom]

Using the HOI IV wiki as a guide...

There are three main family of chassis for tanks: light, medium, and heavy. Using German tanks as an example – the Pz I and II are from the same family of light chassis. The Pz III, IV, and Panther are from the same family of medium chassis. The Tiger I and II are from the same family of heavy chassis.

Chassis are then broken down into variants. The Pz III has the Stug III as a variant, and possibly the Hummel and Nashorn (modified Pz III/IV chassis).

Variants are then broken down into the models. The Pz III Ausf F is followed by the Pz III Ausf G. The Stug III Ausf A is followed by the Stug III Ausf B.

we have seen the models of tanks ships and aircraft so far
according to the dev's we can create vehicle variants ( So, for example, once you have unlocked the Panzer III tank you can research the tank destroyer variant, StuG III.- dev diary 2 TOOLS OF WAR)
so do we have different models for the variants too ?

Yes, we should be able to make different models for the variants.

 

[Victor Cortez]

I hope by "AA" you are not referring to "Ant-Aircraft (Artillery)" in ref to the StuGIII. The Stug was an Assault Gun (Sturm Geschutze= StuG). There was an AAA variant of the Pzr3 which I "think" was called Whipperwill or something like that (or maybe it was Ostwind, can't remember....)

Of course

 

[weaselflonk]

The self-propelled anti aircraft vehicles Möbelwagen, Wirbelwind and Ostwind where all based on the Panzerkampfwagen IV. Could not find one based on the Panzer III.

 

[77Hawk77]

The self-propelled anti aircraft vehicles Möbelwagen, Wirbelwind and Ostwind where all based on the Panzerkampfwagen IV. Could not find one based on the Panzer III.

In reality german SP-AA is more or less a video game fantasy. More King Tiger tanks were made than Wirbelwinds, Ostwinds and Möbelwagens put together. Or atleast very close.

 

[jamesd]

In reality german SP-AA is more or less a video game fantasy. More King Tiger tanks were made than Wirbelwinds, Ostwinds and Möbelwagens put together. Or atleast very close.

Yep - most SP AA was on half tracks and not tank chassis, just as most mobile artillery was towed and not SP, but I think in the game we'll have to produce SP Art to accompany mobile divisions, or limit them to just 24 support guns and use up a slot that should be for logistics, signals or hospitals.

 

[Oakfan]

we have seen the models of tanks ships and aircraft so far
according to the dev's we can create vehicle variants ( So, for example, once you have unlocked the Panzer III tank you can research the tank destroyer variant, StuG III.- dev diary 2 TOOLS OF WAR)
so do we have different models for the variants too ?

This is the way I interpret it. You research PzIII chasis, you can research the TD version that uses that chasis. From there you can modify stats, and name the new variant. Podcat spoke about it in DD8.

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...ence-and-variants.794277/page-4#post-17844346

 

[Lither]

In reality german SP-AA is more or less a video game fantasy. More King Tiger tanks were made than Wirbelwinds, Ostwinds and Möbelwagens put together. Or atleast very close.

Bear in mind that the Möbelwagen was a stopgap vehicle and the Wirbelwind and Ostwind both went into production in 1944, when German tank production had to compete with said Königstigers and other idiotic, resource intensive wastes of factory production.
I could definitely see most of the Flakpanzer IV concepts going into mass-production if times were different, and that's a big part of HoI IV.

 

[77Hawk77]

But they didn't, actually i am not sure any armored AA vehicles were mass produced at al, for any nationl.

 

[jamesd]

Bear in mind that the Möbelwagen was a stopgap vehicle and the Wirbelwind and Ostwind both went into production in 1944, when German tank production had to compete with said Königstigers and other idiotic, resource intensive wastes of factory production.
I could definitely see most of the Flakpanzer IV concepts going into mass-production if times were different, and that's a big part of HoI IV.

Flakpanzer 38t (1 x 2cm Flak) - 141 constructed
Mobelwagon (1 x 3.7cm Flak) - 240 constructed
Wirbelwind (4 x 2cm Flak) - max 105 constructed
Ostwind (1 x 3.7cm Flak) - 44 constructed
Kugelblitz (2 x 3cm Flak) - 5 constructed

SdKfz 6/2 (1 x 3.7cm Flak) - ?
SdKfz 7/1 (4 x 2cm Flak) - 750+ constructed
SdKfz 7/2 (1 x 3.7cm Flak) - 1000+ constructed
SdKfz 10/4 & 10/5 (1 x 2cm Flak) - ?
SdKfz 251/17 (1 x 2cm Flak) - 200+ constructed
sWS (1 x 3.7cm Flak) - ?

That's less than 550 German SP AA on tank chassis compared to at the very least 2000 on half track chassis. Then there's many thousands more AA guns towed by half tracks. As the options in game look to be horse towed or SP, those thousands of vehicle towed AA guns would also need to be constructed as AA on tank chassis by players.

Looking at the SP AA of other nations, I'm seeing many guns mounted on half tracks and trucks. For tank chassis, there's the Soviet T-90 (2 x 12.7mm) prototype, Japanese Type 98 (2 x 20mm) cancelled in development, British Centaur AA (2 x 20mm) 95 produced, British Crusader AA (1 x 40mm or 2 x 20mm) limited use, Soviet ZSU-37 (1 x 37mm) 75 built after the war, Hungarian Nimrod (1 x 40mm) 141 produced, US M19 (2 x 40mm) 285 constructed by war end. All up I'd say there were less than 1000 non-German SP AA constructed on tank chassis. In comparison there were around 4000 US M13 & M16 (2 or 4 x 12.7mm on half track) constructed, as well as British and Soviet truck mounted SPAA outnumbering their SPAA on tank chassis.

At best SP AA on tank chassis comes to around 15% of total SPAA production, and when factoring in the many additional thousands of vehicle towed AA guns that do not seem to be represented in the game at all, they would be lucky to come to 5% of total mobile AA production during the war.