Tank tech tree limits choices late game.

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rafan

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Right now tank tree have only one 1945 tank designe the medium ( MBT) tank.
Heavy and super heavy ends in 1943 and light tank in 1941.

I know that at times of cold war MBT ruled but even then there was some project of heavy tanks (even now from time to time there are voices to create tank with 155mm cannon), and light tanks still existed in limited numeber also LT evolved into things like Striker or BMP-1.
Even if we go by historical time frame there is whole German E series.

I beliave that Paradox wants players to chose how they want to play game and gives them choices, but tank tree will make a lot of players limit they choices to medium tanks.

My resoning:

1.When you are limiting whole tank tree in 1945 to one tank it will make a lot of players feeal that from the beging of the game they need to go into medium tanks or they will be left behind in late years especialy in multi.

2. I belive that there will be two filozofies about producing tanks in the game
First- change tank production with evry new model
Second - to skip on design and keep produciing until you research next one.

And here is the problem for heavy tanks we have three models 1934,1941,1943, that means i cant mass produce model 1941 and skip 1943 to produce 1945 but im musted to jump as fast as i can into 1943 so i can fully upgrade it and use small window before medium from 1945 will start coming in big numbers.

In this situation production strategy becomes limited.

3. Light tanks end in 1941 that means they are completly obsolete in 1945 it practiicaly makes model 1941 much less worth it becouse why resarch and produce light tanks part of the tree when it will be completly obsolete in 1945.

In hoi4 we wont have armored cars that were suporting motorisated and mecanisaited divisions in hoi3 (and world war 2 German divisions) that means if we will want to reinforce MOT and MECH div we will most likly use tank batalion, in this situation there is big chance that player will use LT that will be retired from armored div.
It means that MOT and MECH divs will surfer most in 1945 becouse of lack of cheap modern fire suprt vechicle (LT, TD, SPA) that will be able to not slow them down.

Its long but it all comes to one thing Parradox i ask you ad to game at least 1945 Light tanks and heavy tanks so we will have choices in late game, becouse i believe your filosofy in HOI4 is to give players choises.

Ps: I also belive that we need 1944 Battelcruisers (Alaska) to be couter for carries in the late game.
 
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Denkt

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Hard to say how the MBT will be and it also hard to say if light tanks will be obsolete in 1945 as it fill a complete different role then other tanks. Heavy tanks and medium tanks are not the same either and can not really replace each other.

MBT need both medium and heavy tank at 1943 before you can research it.

1944 Battlecruiser will not add much to the game, battleships and its like are never a counter to carriers no matter if it is 1936 or 1948.
 

Dalwin

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I disagree about light tanks being entirely obsolete by 1945.

First, just that very notion assumes the tank-centric viewpoint of tanks primary role being to fight other tanks. This just is not so.

I may not be building armored divisions that feature light tanks as a center piece in '45, but I might well have one battalion of them attached either to an armored or even to an infantry division.

Second, the model 1941 light tanks that you have in '45 will be better than the ones that first rolled off the assembly line in '41. you will have gradually upgraded them over time without creating an entirely new model.
 
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Amur_Tiger

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Hard to say how the MBT will be and it also hard to say if light tanks will be obsolete in 1945 as it fill a complete different role then other tanks. Heavy tanks and medium tanks are not the same either and can not really replace each other.

MBT need both medium and heavy tank at 1943 before you can research it.

1944 Battlecruiser will not add much to the game, battleships and its like are never a counter to carriers no matter if it is 1936 or 1948.

Even moreso I'm not sure anyone has a real answer as to what a 1944 battlecruiser is other then a poorly armored battleship, the battlecruiser line should probably be merged back into the main battleship line by 1940.

I do think that there should be light and heavy tank chassis right through until the end of the war, particularly given their role in the variants system. Even if you think that light tanks themselves are obsolete by war's end they're certainly more efficient carriers of light AA guns for example.
 

rafan

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From what was told fully upgraded model will be bearly better thant next model after being resarched so that means
light tank 1941 even with full upgrades will become mostly obsolete in 1945 especialy i we take in consideration that
invantry anty tank wepons (1942 and 1943 tech) and AT guns will still get new levels in 1945.

Fully upgraded 1943 Heavy tank would be barely beter than basic 1945 heavy tank. Of courst it will be stronger that fully upgraded 1943 medium tank but against fully upgraded 1945 tank will be most likely weaker ( at most will be even ) overall and lose on speed of production (being heavy and all).
 

jamesd

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Right now tank tree have only one 1945 tank designe the medium ( MBT) tank.
Heavy and super heavy ends in 1943 and light tank in 1941.

I know that at times of cold war MBT ruled but even then there was some project of heavy tanks (even now from time to time there are voices to create tank with 155mm cannon), and light tanks still existed in limited numeber also LT evolved into things like Striker or BMP-1.
Even if we go by historical time frame there is whole German E series.

I beliave that Paradox wants players to chose how they want to play game and gives them choices, but tank tree will make a lot of players limit they choices to medium tanks.

My resoning:

1.When you are limiting whole tank tree in 1945 to one tank it will make a lot of players feeal that from the beging of the game they need to go into medium tanks or they will be left behind in late years especialy in multi.

2. I belive that there will be two filozofies about producing tanks in the game
First- change tank production with evry new model
Second - to skip on design and keep produciing until you research next one.

And here is the problem for heavy tanks we have three models 1934,1941,1943, that means i cant mass produce model 1941 and skip 1943 to produce 1945 but im musted to jump as fast as i can into 1943 so i can fully upgrade it and use small window before medium from 1945 will start coming in big numbers.

In this situation production strategy becomes limited.

3. Light tanks end in 1941 that means they are completly obsolete in 1945 it practiicaly makes model 1941 much less worth it becouse why resarch and produce light tanks part of the tree when it will be completly obsolete in 1945.

In hoi4 we wont have armored cars that were suporting motorisated and mecanisaited divisions in hoi3 (and world war 2 German divisions) that means if we will want to reinforce MOT and MECH div we will most likly use tank batalion, in this situation there is big chance that player will use LT that will be retired from armored div.
It means that MOT and MECH divs will surfer most in 1945 becouse of lack of cheap modern fire suprt vechicle (LT, TD, SPA) that will be able to not slow them down.

Its long but it all comes to one thing Parradox i ask you ad to game at least 1945 Light tanks and heavy tanks so we will have choices in late game, becouse i believe your filosofy in HOI4 is to give players choises.

Ps: I also belive that we need 1944 Battelcruisers (Alaska) to be couter for carries in the late game.

The whole tank tech tree is flawed as it is solely based around the tanks that Germany actually produced and forces other countries to fit their tank models into the German tree. I think it would be much better as follows (using German models):

1916: Great war tanks
1924: Inter war light, medium & heavy tanks (Pz I, Leichttraktor, Grosstraktor)
1935: Basic light tanks (Pz II)
1936: Basic medium tanks (Pz III)
1937: Basic heavy tanks (VK3001)
1938: Improved light tanks (Pz 38t)
1939: Improved medium tanks (Pz IV)
1940: Improved heavy tanks (Tiger I)
1941: Advanced light tanks (Leopard)
1942: Advanced medium tanks (Panther)
1943: Advanced heavy tanks (Tiger II)
1944: Semi-modern light tanks (E-25)
1945: Semi-modern medium tanks (E-50)
1946: Super heavy tanks (Maus)

This way the variety of tanks actually produced in other countries can be catered for, as well as giving Germany alternative choices. A player wanting to keep his tank tech fully up to date needs to research a new model every year and the variant system would allow further refinement. Just as in the current tech tree there could be multiple ways to unlock the ability to research a model. For example the Germans not having research the Leopard, could research the E-25 because they had researched the Panther and they could research the Tiger I because they had researched Pz IV even though they hadn't researched VK3001.

As an example re extra depth from variants, the German 1940 improved heavy could be a VK3601 with the upgraded version being the Tiger I. Not having previously researched the VK3601 the German player is confronted with a choice upon encountering the KV in 1941. Does he just get some VK3601's in production as quickly as possible, or does he wait a bit longer to create the stronger variant and call it the Tiger I?

This type of tree would also allow us to get away from the ridiculous things in the British tank tree where Matildas & Valentines are light tanks. They were basic heavy tanks with thick armour that was impervious to German AT weapons, aside from the 88, up until 1941.
 
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