You mean in the fourth? If yes, I agree then, but I was talking about the previous ones.
Tank pack dlcs: worth the upgrade price?
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You mean in the fourth? If yes, I agree then, but I was talking about the previous ones.
Great. I wasn't, because they aren't selling the third one again, and anything that was in those games isn't necessarily in the next ones, and certainly it doesn't start in the next ones.
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I think they should have been in the base game anyway. They are so minor it really feels petty of Paradox to use them as Pre-order incentives. (something alot of other developers get flack for, by the way)
I don;t think they are worth the extra €10, which is a 25% mark up from the base game. They really have no impact on the game. These are things I would buy at 0.99€ , per nation, at most, if they were sold as seperate DLC.
The base models do the job okay. I think I would spend exactly zero seconds admiring a unit model on the map. The cumulative variety of the packs and model types would probably be nice, but not worth 10€ extra. I will probably play with NATO symbols, anyway.
I don;t think they are worth the extra €10, which is a 25% mark up from the base game. They really have no impact on the game. These are things I would buy at 0.99€ , per nation, at most, if they were sold as seperate DLC.
The base models do the job okay. I think I would spend exactly zero seconds admiring a unit model on the map. The cumulative variety of the packs and model types would probably be nice, but not worth 10€ extra. I will probably play with NATO symbols, anyway.
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Like I said before, I am 100% supportive of their selling unit pack dlc for the map, that is nothng new and is expected, even embraced. Not sure how your point equates to the 2d drawings that they chose to replace all of the historical photos from previous games with.
When were they in HoI4? I don't think there were ever screenshots of historical photos in HoI4.
I wonder if part of the problem was that pdx axed Paradox South and got rid of a load of artists so the ones left are stretched over more projects. Not having 2d naval art for majors sucks but it's hardly a deal breaker as to whether you should get the game or not imo.
Now if they did it to sell more dlc then I can see a more legitimate complaint about company policy and understand withholding money. Still not sure it would stop me buying the game but there you go.
Now if they did it to sell more dlc then I can see a more legitimate complaint about company policy and understand withholding money. Still not sure it would stop me buying the game but there you go.
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Just incase people wanted to know where I heard about Paradox South.
Hey all, so glad to see you liking the art we put our hearts and souls into when making this game! I'm Mange, and I'm "Magnus Nyström" that Aerie mentions above!
It really makes me happy to see someone appreciating the art in this game, is was often overlooked, like with most Paradox Games and products that I had the pleasure of working on for 3,5 years!
I say had, because unfortunately it's over now! We didn't get to ship our game, out of the people that Aerie lists, only 6 people still work there! This is because Paradox decided to shut down our studio called "Paradox South" (some of you MIGHT have heard of us, we did like all of all the Paradox game's DLC for 3 years, but usually we weren't marketed, at all) in November 2015 due to lack of work (something that surpirsed us, seeing we were currently working very hard on Stellaris!)
This is all official information, so it's not news or anything and I'm not leaking stuff or whatever, it was hastily mentioned in the year end wrap up on the main site, this was also the first time ever that Paradox officially mentioned that they had closed down a studio that was part of the family and fired 12 people! I fail to see why they waited so long with that announcement...
Why do I even bring this up? Well, if you like the art, too bad the people who did a major part of it is no longer on the project or with the company! : (
It's all very unfortunate. It reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee[...]eeeally sucks not being able to ship the game you've toiled on for over a year, I can tell you that, but threads like this one makes it a bit better! If only one tiny, tiny, tiny bit!
Anyways, here's to Stellaris' sucess! A sucess that we that worked on the art unfortunately won't be able to take part in. At all.
Don't forget our intern Markus "Praktikant Persson" Persson!
Unfortunately, that team is no more!or at least 50% of it is no more.
I fail to see the reason for not mentioning this above, so I just wanted to point that out.
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The point you are stubbornly refusing to acknowledge here is that 2d images of most ships already existed, Paradox already had them and had been using them for years already; but this time, because they are obsessed with everything being pretty art now (which while pretty is a lot more work) not everything in HOI IV has a 2d image anymore. This is just a cock up: the images are there in Paradox's collection, but they are just not being used. Because they are photos, not art.
Art is all well and good (and what there is of it is very nicely done) but only if you can deliver on time - yet despite all the extra time they took in development, Paradox haven't. There was nothing wrong with the photos, they gave a nice period feel, and the game itself it's HOI unique aesthetics that stood out from other games; Paradox has an extensive stock of them and all they needed to do was cut paste, slight reformat perhaps and job done ready to go. Incredible amounts of time consuming labour by clever artists utterly sidestepped, in priority of real issues. If it ain't broke, don't fix it - yet Paradox have.
Instead of retaining their staple "brand image" that had always worked and would have saved them labour and time, Paradox went to a heap of trouble to make extra unnecessary work for themselves that they haven't even completed.
Sorry Paradox, I love you and all, but I do think you've got it wrong on this issue.
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To be precise, everything in new game does have 2D art; the issue is some of this art is generic, when older iteration of the game had more individual pieces, at least for major powers.
But it's perhaps worth noting that even in HOI3 some of that 2D art was generic and reused, and not accurate representations of military units. So having generic 2D art in HOI4 isn't exactly a new thing (just, granted, more widespread) And that the old pictures, while available, don't mesh well with the new side-view approach the game is using for the units -- the pictures used in HOI3 are all over the place when it comes to angle, size and even quality. Essentially, all that art would have to be redone from scratch in HOI4, or it'd stick out like a sore thumb.
Look I have no problem with them leaving certain things generic when it comes to 2d art representations. My problem is when they start trending towards making EVERYTHING an a la carte experience, . IN HOI3, the a la carte consisted of 3 d sprites, leaving the rest of the game experience included as base game or limited numbers of expansions. Now we are talking about making 3d sprites, tech trees, leaders, 2d drawings, and who knows what else a part of the dlc for indivdual countries. If this trend continues to be justified by the community, what is the lowest level of base game that the community will accept, with the rest being paid or "free" dlc? Theoretically, someone could justify that every part of the game could be stripped off as dlc that we need to individually pay for to "better compensate the creators of the content for their hard work." I doubt we would be willing to do that, but seriously, where do people draw the line here?
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I can understand Paradox wanting to sell 3D models as DLC, as it's something they've done in previous games. We're still going to have basic generic light, medium and heavy models, as well as unique models for the majors. From what I understand, the DLC just fills in the gaps in the tech tree, so you have a greater variety of 3D light, medium & and heavy tank models, as well as super-heavy tank models.
Where I totally draw the line, however, is with basic 2D artwork. I am not convinced that it's okay to have tank and plane artwork in the vanilla game, but then sell naval artwork piecemeal as DLC. To me, that boils down to greed, and shows disrespect to long-term customers.
I'm not bothered about 3D models and so I won't buy them (at full price, anyway) but I sure as hell do not expect to have to pay extra for basic in-game visual content. If any of you want to argue about this then that's fine, and I know there are a few people who will defend any decision Paradox make regardless, but you tell me why you think it's acceptable to include 2D artwork for the Army and Air Force, but apparently not the Navy.
Where I totally draw the line, however, is with basic 2D artwork. I am not convinced that it's okay to have tank and plane artwork in the vanilla game, but then sell naval artwork piecemeal as DLC. To me, that boils down to greed, and shows disrespect to long-term customers.
I'm not bothered about 3D models and so I won't buy them (at full price, anyway) but I sure as hell do not expect to have to pay extra for basic in-game visual content. If any of you want to argue about this then that's fine, and I know there are a few people who will defend any decision Paradox make regardless, but you tell me why you think it's acceptable to include 2D artwork for the Army and Air Force, but apparently not the Navy.
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That is why I am buying games instead of pirating them.
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Even if they were in the collection (no evidence that this is the case), that is not in the game. They were never taken out: they just were never there in the first place. It would have taken effort to put them into the game, and it's impossible to say whether this effort was more or less than art for the units. Not only that, but it is certain that they would not have the same consistency, since many of the more minor tanks aren't going to have quality pictures associated with them, so you're going to have a silhouette with a question mark anyway. Ultimately, you are criticizing them for design decisions for which you have no idea what resources they had, how much time it would take to get more historical photos of sufficient quality to put in the game vs. how much time it would take to make artwork for them (the later might be less, since you don't have to find a perfect picture - you can find a "good enough" one and just use your imagination to rotate or flip it to fit with the rest of the art), how much time the art team had for this project, how much time the art team spent on this project... I could on for quite a long time listing a huge amount of things that we don't know about the situation they were in. The fact is, though, that pictures never were in HoI4, so they could never have been taken out.
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This is a good post.
Alot of people seem to accept anything from Paradox. Ofcourse paradox is going to push that line as far as they can.
I wouldn't be surprised if any minor nation focus trees will never be in a big expansions. I'd really not be surprised if they sell focus trees for every minor nation they possibly can, as separate DLC, raking in a nice few extra bucks, on top of the price for the expansions.
I would be so disappointed, but not surprised, if that happened. That's not cosmetic DLC, it will enhance the gameplay for the country that you play, and they will make you pay for it.
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I'm pretty sure it works like this. Somebody can correct me if I'm wrong. Say a nation designed and built a brand new one of a kind aircraft carrier and named it the HMS Paradox. Then decided to build another just like it. The second one they name the HMS Clausewitz. The two ships would be identical. The HMS Clausewitz might have slight differences from advancements in technology and shipbuilding etc. But they would both be of the same class of ship. The Paradox class aircraft carrier in this case.
I don't think anybody expected PDS to make 2D art for the minors outside of a DLC. But to not have them for the majors is bewildering. What is more astonishing is the fact that we can get some of them for the majors but only if we buy the corresponding 3D pack for an extra $10. And even then its only a few of the heavy cruisers. So if somebody wants the full content at launch they will need to pay $50. And yes cosmetics ARE part of the game and do effect the gameplay. If they didn't people would still be playing text adventure games like Zork. At $50, the game is pretty close to AAA title range. And I'm sorry but from what I can see the production value just isn't there.
I'm probably going to buy the colonel edition because I want the full experience and love the HOI series. But I also want to support the company because PDS has been the only perfect 10 in the gaming industry in my view. That is since Creative Assembly dropped off around '07 anyway. I just gotta say my confidence is shaken.
I'm actually starting to wonder if these issues have less to do with PDS and more to do with the publisher(PI).
I'm probably going to buy the colonel edition because I want the full experience and love the HOI series. But I also want to support the company because PDS has been the only perfect 10 in the gaming industry in my view. That is since Creative Assembly dropped off around '07 anyway. I just gotta say my confidence is shaken.
I'm actually starting to wonder if these issues have less to do with PDS and more to do with the publisher(PI).
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Are there any pictures of the 3D models? I dont exactly understand the 3D dlc. They change the models on the map?
I think that the rather abrupt move towards being like any other developer and publisher, (minor, petty things not in the base game, but offered as pre-order incentives, Season passes, the likeliness of them selling game changing focus trees for minor nations as seperate dlc, etc) is due to their upcoming IPO.
oh....no. They're going public? I knew nothing good would ever come from that Steve Jobs movie.- 1