Tank Names (German)

[Rulan]

I love tanks, I care deeply about tanks and things similar to tanks, and one of the most important parts of playing Hearts of Iron has for me always been researching new tanks. I'm starting with the German tree because it's the country I most recently played, but it is a dream to provide real-world equipment for every frequently played major and minor power (eg. Argentina, Sweden, China).

I've noticed a few instances of poor choice of real-world units, in particular tanks, tank destroyers and self-propelled guns in the German tech tree, and would like to provide my input and suggestions for replacements to the current titles.

Heavy Tanks

The most obvious to me are the use of the Dicker Max (1941), used as the title of the Basic Heavy Tank '39, and the Sturer Emil (1943) as the Improved Heavy Tank '41, as these vehicles are not tanks but self-propelled guns. Allow me to suggest a replacement tree;

Basic Heavy Tank '39 - PzKpfw NbFz V or VK3001(H)
Improved Heavy Tank '41 - VK3601H(H)
Advanced Heavy Tank '43 - PzKpfw VI Tiger I
Semi-Modern Heavy Tank '45 - PzKpfw VI Tiger II
Modern Heavy Tank '55 - PzKpfw E-90 Tiger III

Though it was designed to fill the heavy tank role, as the Neubaufahrzeug is already used as the Medium Tank '34 I would recommend the VK3001(H) instead for the '39 slot unless a different Medium Tank '34 can be used.

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Medium Tanks > Main Battle Tanks

The medium tank line is good until it progresses into the MBT stage in 1948, where it includes the E-75 and E-90 (both heavy tanks). I would suggest the following tree as a replacement;

Early Main Battle Tank '48 - PzKpfw V Panther II
Basic Main Battle Tank '52 - PzKpfw E-50
Heavy Main Battle Tank '56 - PzKpfw E-75
Modern Main Battle Tank '62 - PzKpfw Leopard 1

The PzKpfw E-90 Tiger III has been removed from this tree as it is a heavy tank, and represents a seperate line of tank thought to the MBT (which grew from developments in medium tanks). Note that the E-75 is also a heavy tank, but is probably the best available to fill the Heavy Main Battle Tank '56 slot.

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Light Tanks

I also question the suitability of the PzKpfw III Ausf. N as the Advanced Light Tank, as this is not a light tank but an up-armoured and rearmed medium tank. Given the progression from the PzKpfw 38(t) as the Light Tank '39, I would suggest instead;

Advanced Light Tank '44 - PzKpfw II Ausf. L Luchs or SdKfz.140/1 Aufklärungspanzer 38(t)

The Luchs was an advanced light/recon tank, produced in 1944 - this fits both the class, role and time. The SdKfz.140/1 Aufklärungspanzer 38(t) is a dedicated scout based upon the chassis of the PzKpfw 38(t), and represents a logical progression into the scout role from the previous vehicle.

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Tank Destroyers

Visible problems with the tank destroyer tree is the absence of a designation for both the Semi Modern Tank Destroyer '53 & Improved Modern Tank Destroyer '60, as well as two minor errors in existing designations - the Basic Tank Destroyer '42 (SdKfz.139 Marder III) requires Basic Light Tank '38 (PzKpfw Panzer II Ausf. D) in order to be researched, though as the Marder III was built upon the chassis of the PzKpfw 38(t) Basic Tank Destroyer '42 should actually be the SdKfz.131 Marder II, which was built on the chassis of the Panzer II. Also, the Jagdpanther lacks a Sonderkraftfahrzeug number - it should be SdKfz.173.

Suggestion for the tree;

Early Tank Destroyer '40 - Panzerjäger I
Basic Tank Destroyer '42 - SdKfz.131 Marder II
Heavy Tank Destroyer '44 - SdKfz.162 Jagdpanzer IV
Improved Tank Destroyer '45 - SdKfz.173 Jagdpanther
Advanced Tank Destroyer '49 - Jagdpanzer E-50
Semi-Modern Tank Destroyer '53 - Jagdpanzer E-75
Modern Tank Destroyer '56 - Kanonenjagdpanzer 4-5
Improved Modern Tank Destroyer '60 - Rakatenjagdpanzer 1

This list includes the change of the Marder III to the Marder II, and the inclusion of the Sonderkraftfahrzeug number for the Jagdpanther. In order to remove the blank Semi-Modern Tank Destroyer '53, the Advanced Tank Destroyer '49 (previously Jagdpanzer E-75) was replaced by the Jagdpanzer E-50, and the E-75 was moved up to fill the Semi-Modern Tank Destroyer '53 position. I saw that the Kanonenjagdpanzer 4 had been included as the model for Modern Tank Destroyer '56, the logical progression from this point is to the Rakatenjagdpanzer 1, the vehicle that historically replaced it (filling the blank Improved Modern Tank Destroyer '60).

In addition, the SdKfz.186 Jagdtiger has been removed from the Improved Tank Destroyer '45 slot, and replaced by the SdKfz.173 Jagdpanther. The Jagdpanther has in turn been replaced by the SdKfz.162 Jagdpanzer IV. This has been performed in order to provide a more logical series of development through the TD tree, as the Jagdtiger was one of the heaviest armoured vehicles ever built, but was also mechanically unreliable enough to make it unsuitable widespread use.

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Self-Propelled Artillery

Self-Propelled Artillery is a confused section, bordering the line between self-propelled artillery and assault guns - two very different roles. Notably the section begins with two assault guns, the StuG III and StuH 42, before progressing onto actual Self-Propelled Artillery. Because of this error already having been established since the original HoI2 game and expansions, I am inclined to submit two possible trees for this section;

#1 - Assault Guns included

Early Self-Propelled Artillery '40 - StuG III Ausf. A
Basic Self-Propelled Artillery '42 - Sturmhaubitze 42
Improved Self-Propelled Artillery '43 - SdKfz.124 Wespe
Advanced Self-Propelled Artillery '45 - SdKfz.165 Hummel
Semi-Modern Self-Propelled Artillery '49 - Sd.Kfz.165/1 Heuschrecke
Modern Self-Propelled Artillery '53 - No Suggestion
Improved Modern Self-Propelled Artillery '56 - No Suggestion
Advanced Modern Self-Propelled Artillery '60 - No Suggestion

#1 - Assault Guns removed

Early Self-Propelled Artillery '40 - Sturmpanzer I Bison
Basic Self-Propelled Artillery '42 - Sturmpanzer II Bison
Improved Self-Propelled Artillery '43 - SdKfz.124 Wespe
Advanced Self-Propelled Artillery '45 - SdKfz.165 Hummel
Semi-Modern Self-Propelled Artillery '49 - Sd.Kfz.165/1 Heuschrecke
Modern Self-Propelled Artillery '53 - No Suggestion
Improved Modern Self-Propelled Artillery '56 - No Suggestion
Advanced Modern Self-Propelled Artillery '60 - No Suggestion

I have attempted to find German-made artillery pieces between the period 1945-1960, to no success.

Tired of typing now, please give feedback.

 

[Hopit]

I'd change the E-90 tiger 3 with E-100, because the hull for the E-100 was actually made.
and 44 light tank to vk.1602 Leopard that was supposed to enter production in 43 and had a better armament than the Luchs you currently have.

 

[Rulan]

So the E-90 Tiger III should be removed because it never left the drawing board, in favour of the E-100, of which only the hull was constructed? I understand the E-100 having seniority due to at least one component being manufactured, but I would still choose the E-90 Tiger III as it is a development of the Tiger series. The degree of real-world completion between the E-90 and E-100 is so small as to bear little relevance, and of the choice between two 'paper panzers' I think that the continuation of the Tiger series lends greater weight. Additionally, the E-100 was a super-heavy rather than a mere heavy tank, and would be more suited to a second level super-heavy.

Of the argument to use the VK1602 Leopard, the project didn't even reach prototype stage. I think the fact that both the PzKpfw II Ausf. L Luchs and SdKfz.140/1 Aufklärungspanzer 38(t) entered production makes them a far more realistic choice. My personal preference is the SdKfz.140/1, as it is a development of the PzKpfw 38(t) and the production numbers of the Luchs and SdKfz.140/1 are similar enough that neither has a great advantage.

 

[Hopit]

The E-100 hull was rather large actually
And luchs wouldn't have done that well in a combat situation with its tiny over sized machine gun. Comparing to the vk.1602 5cm gun it was supposed to have in the end.

 

[Hessler]

Ähm ...
dear Sirs,
The "E" tanks were never planned to build. They were pure "designs" which were updated every now and then.
Theoretical studies, so to say.
So it is not a good idea to use those concept names for buildable models.

 

[Rulan]

The E-100 hull was rather large actually
And luchs wouldn't have done that well in a combat situation with its tiny over sized machine gun. Comparing to the vk.1602 5cm gun it was supposed to have in the end.

I certainly agree that the VK1602 Leopard was superior to both the Luchs and SdKfz.140/1 in armour, armament and (if World of Tanks were a reliable source) speed and maneuverability, but the fact remains that it was not produced in 1944, while the other two were. Perhaps if another level of light tank were added to the tech tree, say a Semi-Modern Light Tank '50, then the Leopard could be added.

 

[Rulan]

Ähm ...
dear Sirs,
The "E" tanks were never planned to build. They were pure "designs" which were updated every now and then.
Theoretical studies, so to say.
So it is not a good idea to use those concept names for buildable models.

For some reason there was a distinct drop in German tank production beginning in 1945, making it necessary to use the Entwicklung series should one want any named tanks at all.