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Chapter 128: Three Days in May (8 to 10 May 1941)
Chapter 128: Three Days in May (8 to 10 May 1941)

Prologue


The battered defenders of Timisoara attempt to recover from their recent exertions – they are too tired and busy to feel any real elation after their epic feat of arms. In Lipova, the badly worn 6 Inf Div hopes the Axis do not attack again any time soon, while the exhausted troops that have previously retreated to the next line of defence in Lugoj and Faget try to reorganise and dig in. The effort to defend Timisoara has left few fresh reserves for Inönü to draw upon: 1 Cav Div in Lugoj and the two divisions (3 Cav and the Soviet 156 SD - victors of Saudi Arabia) in trains heading north to the Balkan Front.

Before he headed to bed the night before, the President had left new orders for his military researchers in his War (Armament) Ministry. They would finish research, due to mature soon, on improved TAC and fighter pilot training, but on advice from the experts, Blitzkrieg research has been put on the back-burner, replaced by the more relevant Mass Assault, which should help improve morale in the infantry arm. Improved Infantry Support Weapons and Infantry Warfare Doctrine were also considered and may be pursued when the air doctrine effort is done – within the month.

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---xxx---

8 May 1941

Before the Milli Şef can even turn in, however, on the stroke of midnight he is briefed about a new threat by a staff officer.

“Gürler reports a strong attack by Italian armour in Lipova. He has counter-attacked their assault in true style but as you had feared, General, they have not had time either to fully re-establish their entrenchments nor to recover organisation after their recent counter-attack to save Timisoara.” The duty officer pauses in his report to allow his commander, who has subtly raised a finger in a gesture of pause, to ask a question.

“Does he believe he can hold?”

“General, alas no. Unfortunately, for some reason the provision of supplies to Lipova has broken down, severely hampering their defence. They are short of ammunition in particular. And despite 6 Inf Div’s brave and effective counter-attack, they have been caught in open country, not fully entrenched, by a fresh Axis tank division. Their organisation had barely recovered from last week’s exertions. They cannot hold out for long.”

“Very well, countermand 1 Cav Div’s previous order to move to Timisoara: they should head to Faget instead: the defenders there are badly underdone and will soon find themselves on the front line.”

“Ah, yes, of course General. But I must also advise you that the same supply shortage has affected 1 Cav Div. They have virtually run out of fuel and their advance has slowed to a crawl.”

Inönü’s face drains of colour but he maintains a stoic disposition.

“I see. Issue the order anyway. I will be at the CP shortly.”

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Not long after arriving, the land line from Timisoara rings. It is the famed MAJGEN Namut, who has assumed command in the beleaguered and almost levelled city, even though his 5 Inf Div has barely recovered from its recent ‘victory’.

“This is Namut. We have been attacked again, with a German infantry division leading from Arad, backed up by a Hungarian division attacking from Sânnicolau Mare. Both are fresh. We have their measure for now and I am delaying their assault to good effect. While the 14th is fresh, my men and 1 Motorlu are almost spent. Our entrenchments are still only rudimentary. Once day breaks things will get harder for us.”
“Hold them for as long as you can. The 5th and 1 Motorlu are only to retreat when forced to. We still need more time to solidify the line to the south-west. Keep me posted.”
“Vur ha!”

The remaining troops trying to consolidate in Timisoara will no longer be getting the hoped for 1 Cav Div reinforcement, delayed first by supply problems and then by the renewed armoured attack on Lipova. The green 14 Inf Div would have to try to bear the lion's share of the fight: all other bolts have been shot. This coordinated enemy attack is going to be hard to deflect.

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By 4am, Gürler’s 6 Inf Div was in big trouble, but still holding on. Given the as-yet paper thin defence in Faget, they were still ordered to hold on for a bit longer, but their odds were worsening by the hour.

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As Italian air strikes resume in Timisoara, by 10am, with daylight and no supplies coming in, the situation is becoming dire in Lipova [now 160.7% attack vs 97.7% defence] Inönü ordered them to retreat to Faget. With casualties still relatively light (though organisation precarious), 6 Inf Div had given the defenders behind them a little more time to prepare. But would it be enough?

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The rest of the day brought no significant changes in the front at Timisoara. But that evening, in Zurich, an important appointment had been made. Colonel Mike Ceylan, son of the late Ambassador Vatan ‘Vito’ Ceylan, had received a cable from Foreign Minister Aras in Ankara: he would follow his father as Ambassador – and head of both S.I.T.H. and conventional intelligence operations in Western Europe.

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“Ambassador.” The traditional S.I.T.H. acknowledgement of total loyalty. Polat ‘Fat Pete’ Cumali looks on as Mike’s bodyguard moves to close the door to his office. S.I.T.H. business must be discussed.

As the day ends, Namut’s superior tactics keep the enemy at bay in Timisoara, with their lead division taking significant casualties. Miraculously, this has kept both 5 Inf Div and 1 Mot Div in the line, though they are barely hanging on. The notional odds for the battle have improved a little for the defenders – though the troops on the ground may not be seeing it that way. Enemy numbers are significant in Senta – and what is the German 4th Leichte Division doing? While to the north-east, allied Soviet and Romanian formations seem to be back-pedalling: the situation in western Romania becoming more precarious.

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---xxx---

9 May 41

At midnight, a flash cable is received at the Foreign Ministry in Ankara – Aras is alerted with a hasty phone call: the Japanese have conquered Mongolia. Their government has gone into exile. Those units that were fighting on Soviet territory continue to do so (a cavalry division of two brigades, a militia division with three brigades and a couple of HQs). A black day for the Comintern.

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The line in the Far East has not dissolved and at least some free Mongolian units remain in the field, to continue the fight for freedom.

At 2am, word comes through from Kanatli that his division has broken – they are retreating to Faget. They have fought valiantly for days but can do so no more.

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An hour later, Namut is on the field telephone again with more bad news:

“The Axis have reinforced their attack – Panzer IVs from 11 Pz Division have been sighted attacking from Senta. They have not fully recovered from the previous attack, but apparently enough to rejoin the fight. The Italian 30th Infantry has also been spotted joining their reserve from Arad. My division cannot last much longer – the 14th remains fairly strong, but with no permanent commander will be at a further disadvantage when I am forced to leave. Milli Şef, I must be frank: without some miracle, Timisoara is lost.”

“I understand Namut. Keep fighting as long as you can and direct the 14th to do the same after you are forced to withdraw. I have now instructed 1 Cav Div to hold in Lugoj. We can only hope the Soviets actually help us to defend Faget, as we had previously requested. We need all the time we can get to try to stop their next assault after Timisoara is surrendered.”

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Two hours later, Italian armour occupies Lipova, while their 30th Division reinforces in Timisoara. The vice tightens inexorably.

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At 7am, 5 Inf Div have had enough and break, fleeing to Lugoj [AI selected, but I would have chosen the same]. 14 Inf Div are now alone in their defence.

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A German soldier captures a rear guard member from 5 Inf Div, caught in a shallow foxhole outside Timisoara as his exhausted comrades flee south to the next line of defence. German propaganda photo, 9 May 1941.

As if things weren’t already hard enough in Timisoara, the partly-recovered SS-Verf Division joins the Axis reserve for the attack from Senta at 1pm. 14 Inf Div still fights on bravely, but the pressure is starting to tell on them.

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---xxx---

London: 2pm, No 10 Downing Street. That afternoon, Churchill’s Head of Intelligence [Sir Robert Menzies, erstwhile Australian Prime Minister, according to the game] is briefing his leader.

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Churchill and Robert Menzies, London, early May 1941.

“Prime Minister, our 'asset' in Turkey has advised that our recent discovery in Cagliari will be of some interest to our Turkish ‘friends’.”

“You mean ‘the Thorn’, Menzies?”

“Yes, Prime Minister. Even I don’t know his name – only his MI6 handler does. Need to know basis.”

“Yes, very good. I would deem it an honour to meet him after all this is over. He has done great service to King and Country.”

“In the unlikely event he survives this war, we shall surely arrange it. But for now we will cable Ankara with this possible lead from Cagliari and will see whether they wish to follow it up, and if so how. And then observe their actions to see what we may learn ourselves.”

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Menzies has brought his own trusted detachment of Australian WRAAF telegraphers to London with him to handle his most sensitive cable communications at the Secret Intelligence Service (MI6).

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The game's Sir Robert Menzies should of course have been Colonel (later Major General Sir) Stewart Menzies (b. 30 January 1890), who took over from Hugh Sinclair as head of the British Secret Intelligence Service (SIS) when the latter died in November 1939. Colonel Stewart Menzies was a nephew of Robert Menzies. [Let’s imagine him in charge of actual British Intelligence operations from here on, rather than Robert Menzies.]

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The contradiction is made worse by the fact the game now has Robert Menzies (with a different photo and name representation) as Australian Foreign Minister. Can’t do both of these roles at once - not in different hemispheres! And I’ll complain again while I’m at it about the game’s constitutionally impermissible representation of the Governor General Sir Isaac Isaacs as both Head of State and Head of Government (ie Prime Minister).

Zurich: 6pm, Turkish Embassy. That evening, the information from MI6 has made it from Ögel in Ankara to Mike Ceylan in Zurich via a coded telegram. There is little specific information – just an offer that Turkey can send an agent to Cagliari in the British-occupied enclave in Sardinia if they wish, to follow up a potential lead that they have uncovered there. Mike has been instructed to do so.

“Cumali, send word to Cennet in Monte Carlo. We are not yet ready for our ‘cold dish’. She is to use one of her alternate identities to make the trip to Cagliari. She will fly to Lisbon, where she will rendezvous with a British escort officer. They will get her from there to Gibraltar and then via a submarine to Cagliari. We don’t know what she will find there – but can use her discretion as to what action to take. She will know if she needs to seek guidance from us or Ankara.”

“Sure, Boss. I’m on to it. No problems.”

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Ambassador Mike Ceylan ponders the cryptic message from their British co-belligerents. He trusts them no more or less than they would trust him. Which is not at all.

---xxx---

That night in Kraljevo, Inönü looks at the latest reports from 14 Inf Div in Timisoara and dispositions in Lugoj and Faget – where the Soviet 133 SD is headed (whether they will stay or pass through is unknown).

“The 14th has done everything they can and that honour demands. I hate to do it after the price we have paid to hold Timisoara for the Romanians, but enough is enough. Tell them to execute an orderly withdrawal to Lugoj while they still have the organisation to manage it and not be completely spent when they get there.”

“Yes, General,” replies the Chief of Staff, with a resigned look.

“Tell them: ‘I will return!’

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The enemy have again been made to pay dearly, but Inönü had no more rabbits to pull out of his hat. Soaked in the blood of Turkish heroes and now indelibly etched in the annals of Turkish military history, the cry ‘Remember Timisoara!’ would be used whenever a desperate defence against the odds was called for.

The President is brought a map showing the impact of the Mongolian surrender, with the remainder of the country being ceded to Japan – though some pockets of foreign troops (mainly Soviet and Romanian) are still retreating north from Mongolia.

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10 May 1941

As his units retreat from the abandoned front line in Timisoara and Lipova, Turkey formally removes them from the list of requested allied defensive objectives. In coming hours, other objectives in Romania would be rationalised to reflect recent retreats across the front.

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---xxx---
At the Grand Casino in Monte Carlo, Fredo is somewhat lackadaisically overseeing the construction and fit out of the new Turkish Consulate – which, somewhat quaintly, will be located within an annex at the Casino!

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The Turkish-owned Grand Casino (and Consulate-Designate) in Monte Carlo, 10 May 1941.

Late that morning, Cennet – who has been gracing the tables under cover in recent days – has finished packing and is heading out shortly on her mission. Fredo has not been told anything of it.

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“Seeya, Fredo. I’m off to Lisbon for some sightseeing.” Then, in a quieter voice and with a tight smile, “Give my regards to Kelebek, won’t you?” Fredo blanches and scurries away. He will be doing no such thing. Cennet just smiles to herself. It is not a soft smile. There is serious business to do in this war – and Fredo will never be capable of doing it. Especially not when he remains subserviently in Mo Green's pocket.

Cennet boards her Swissair flight to Lisbon, from nearby Nice. She is intrigued to find out what is going on in Cagliari – her last visit there was sad and desperate, ending with Luca Brasi's murder and a French invasion. Now it was the British. [Cagliari certainly seems to exert a fatal attraction in this ATL!]

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A DH89 Dragon Rapide, operated by Swissair between Nice and Lisbon since 1937: Cennet’s transport for her latest mission.
[The airline apparently had a fleet of three of these aeroplanes which they flew on their routes into Austria. In this ATL, they also fly it to Lisbon from Vichy Nice.]

Something of an Axis build-up has occurred on the southern section of the Yeniçeri Line in recent days. The line there has long been thinned as far as it can. The gradual increase in Axis troop levels there mean a withdrawal to depth lines will be just that more difficult and dangerous if it is called for.

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1 Mot Div arrived in Faget at 4pm. They are very badly exhausted and it is uncertain how much they will be able to contribute to a defence of the new Lugoj-Faget defensive line, if it comes to it. But the defence there is so thin they are not sent further behind the lines to recover.

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The desperate race to stabilise the line south-east of Timisoara may eventually be aided by the arrival of the strategic reserve – 3 Cav Div and 156 SD – whose destination has just been changed from Beograd to Mehadia. From there, they could be sent to the front line (if it still exists) or to depth positions in the Romanian mountains should a general withdrawal eventuate.

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The dreaded moment arrives when German troops occupy Timisoara. Its importance is more symbolic than strategic, but nonetheless it pains the Turkish Army to see Nazi scum and their Axis lackeys treading its streets.

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Not that there are many streets left to tread freely in Timisoara, after so much fighting during the last months, culminating in the devasting, unrelenting street to street combat of the last few weeks. May the Germans choke on the brick dust!

OTL Event: Scotland. Deputy Führer Rudolf Hess flies a Messerschmitt Bf 110 to Scotland on a solo peace mission, parachuting into Eaglesham near his objective of Dungavel House after running out of fuel.

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British personnel inspect the wreckage of Rudolph Hess’s Me Bf 110 in Scotland on 10 May 1941 in OTL.

But in this ATL, Hess (for now, anyway) remains the much-derided (in Turkey) Deputy Fuhrer of Germany and supposed Head of Government. And von Neurath persists as Foreign Minister – that even worse toady and buffoon, Ribbentrop, has not (yet) risen to the top. Perhaps he will, as scum rises to the top of the sewage pit.

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News Report: Belgium. The Strike of the 100,000 begins in Nazi-occupied Belgium. It was led by Julien Lahaut, head of the Belgian Communist Party (Parti Communiste de Belgique or PCB), even though the Nazi—Soviet Pact was still in force. The object of the strike was to demand a wage increase though it was also an act of passive resistance to the German occupation. The strike originated at the Cockerill steel works (Cockerill Fonderie) in the industrial town of Seraing, in eastern Belgium. [The date marked the first anniversary of the German invasion of Belgium in OTL: we will take this event to have happened in-game and will see how it transpires. What will the occupiers make of it?]

---xxx---

A couple of quick updates, showing territorial changes since 1 May (green line) and (dashed arrows, as usual) any changes in the last three-day period.

The Patriotic Front has not changed much, with the Soviets in the Southern Sector largely holding or even pushing back, with the most ground lost in Romania.

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In the Far East, the fall of Mongolia (new front line in yellow as at 2300hr on 10 May 1941) is the only significant recent development.

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---xxx---

Coming Up: Can the Comintern recover from the hammer blows in Romania and Mongolia over the last three days? Will Inönü eventually have to enact one of the intermediate fall-back plans? Or can the Soviets maintain enough pressure in the South and Romania to offset the Axis switch of emphasis to the Balkans? Where the Turks have certainly drawn the lightning after their earlier Spring Offensive. As Mike Ceylan grows into his new role as Ambassador and S.I.T.H. ‘capo’ for Western Europe, will Sal Terzi go through with his treacherous plan to side with Marco Bianchi and assassinate him? What is the significance (if any) of the new Turkish Consulate in Monte Carlo? Will it figure in Mike's planned cold buffet revenge banquet? What mystery awaits Cennet in the haunted streets of Cagliari? Will Hess pull the same silly stunt in this ATL as he did in OTL? And WHO IS THE THORN!? :confused:o_O
 
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Fall of Mongolia, while a long way off, is a hammer blow to the Soviets in the Far East. :(

But I fear the Romania's problem the most. If the Germans cuts it in two....that's bad. :eek:

Any plans if Romania falls?
 
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Fall of Mongolia, while a long way off, is a hammer blow to the Soviets in the Far East. :(

But I fear the Romania's problem the most. If the Germans cuts it in two....that's bad. :eek:

Any plans if Romania falls?
Yes, if Romania starts to cave, we fall back to an intermediate line protecting Ploiesti-Bucharesti and Sofiya if we can. If that isn’t possible, or is overcome, then it’s back to the original fortified lines already prepared in southern Greece (the Iskandar Line) and the Bosporus (Calistar Line). Only four provinces to hold, heavily fortified and with provincial AI, and including (variously) cities, mountains and straits. If the Axis can crack those, then I’ll salute the AI! Of course, the decisive question will be whether all of this will have given the Soviets enough time to really start gearing their war machine up. A year of wartime production with almost all their population and industrial centres still controlled.

Of course, there’s the Far East Front, but Japan would have probably come in soon anyway (it being HOI3). And of course we’re hoping they might have the US to tangle with (as well as the rest of the Allies) by the end of the year. Without that, the Far East may erode much of the advantage gained by their early entry and German’s tough grind in France and now Russia (and not having Romania and Bulgaria in their pocket and fighting for them).
 
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Infantry Support Weapons
I'm not sure if defensivess and toughness are really the most useful stats. They are of course nice to have, but I never prioritized them (in HoI2). For example if there is a digital computing machine tech which is not ahead of time, we can think about that.

the same supply shortage
Is this the doing of Diken? We have to apprehend him/her/it/them and perform a blot.

1 Motorlu
Language nitpick: It should be 1. Motorize Tümen. Motorlu means "with engines" so 1 Motorlu Tümen is literally "a division with an engine".

The green 14 Inf Div would have to try to bear the lion's share of the fight: all other bolts have been shot.
Not having a leader is really a bad thing. I hope Tac Command 2 and 3, and then Sup Firepower is researched soon and we have 5 bde divs. That'll take at least like a year or so I guess?

The rest of the day brought no significant changes in the front at Timisoara. But that evening, in Zurich, an important appointment had been made. Colonel Mike Ceylan, son of the late Ambassador Vatan ‘Vito’ Ceylan, had received a cable from Foreign Minister Aras in Ankara: he would follow his father as Ambassador – and head of both S.I.T.H. and conventional intelligence operations in Western Europe.
I like it better when the different aspects of the AAR are intertwined like this instead of separate sections :)

Those units that were fighting on Soviet territory continue to do so (a cavalry division of two brigades, a militia division with three brigades and a couple of HQs). A black day for the Comintern.
A black day indeed, but at least now we know the divisions do not disappear. A worst case study for Romania.

“Prime Minister, our 'asset' in Turkey has advised that our recent discovery in Cagliari will be of some interest to our Turkish ‘friends’.”
I'm puzzled...

Of course, there’s the Far East Front
How the hell are the Japanese still in supply?
 
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In light of recent developments, you can't research Mass Assault quickly enough...

The fact that several Mongolian units remain in the field is better news than I had expected. Pravda is still celebrating the heroes of Urumqi, where there is 'heavy fighting', but those who know are glad for those few divisions.

How the hell are the Japanese still in supply?
Red Army Logisticiens are still trying to figure that one out... one theory being that the Japanese troops there are using the national Mongolian supply pile they captured when they took Ulaanbaatar to supplement the many gaps in their own supply network. If that is the case, the Japanese supply situation should deteriorate eventually...

Cagliari is surely full of mystery, danger, and excitement... I'm sure Cennet will find something interesting there.

The front in Romania isn't looking to good. I will try once more to weigh on STAVKA to get you a couple more units, but of course, with the whole Mongolia thing, I can't promise anything. It would surely be a shame to see the Germans break through the front in Romania, putting both the Southern Soviet front, and the Yeniceri line in danger of encirclement.

We will always remember Timisoara.

SkitalecS3
 
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Well, as the line falls back upon our more developed works, the line shortens, freeing up divisions which can be called upon to take the fight to the enemy! At the very least, to make the fight harder for the enemy.
 
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I told you all this would happen dammit! ;)Right, so it looks like the Germans are serious about smashing through us and the Romanians at the same time (or at least pinning us down so we dare not send anything to romania to make a new front or line there). Basically, we are in serious trouble. From the looks of what was captured everywhere else, the axis may hace even stripped back on somr other fronts to supply more troops here (at best, it seems italy has awoken and is throwing it all at us).

...we have plans for this but none of them leave us much wiggle room to manouver. If we go back to the next line or the final ones, we can't pull that raider stuff again. We've bought all the time possible for russia. Time for them to step up. All we can do now is occupy the axis for as long as possible till they either suffer a setback elsewhere and react or they take romania down and we have to run.

The best we can hope for is a solidifed Y line holding them off and wasting troops they cold be usong making the push into romania relativly painless for tbem. As it stands, they shouldnt chsnge this strstefy of pinning us down and smashing romania because I think its the most efdective one they cpuld have picked. So...we should prepare a foghting retreat acriss Yuguslavia. Hold out for now but of course with us pinned to that line, romania might fall unexpectedly and then we risk being cut off.

This is not a good situation to be in. We better pray that tbe Brits found an Enigma in Caligari and already have B Park up and running. And that they are going to win in africa because if not, they have a hard fight ahead of them. In the east, the axis are winning now.
 
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How the hell are the Japanese still in supply?

Red Army Logisticiens are still trying to figure that one out... one theory being that the Japanese troops there are using the national Mongolian supply pile they captured when they took Ulaanbaatar to supplement the many gaps in their own supply network. If that is the case, the Japanese supply situation should deteriorate eventually...

Having recently played partway through a Japanese invasion of Siberia and Mongolia myself, I can offer some insights from the Japanese side, with the caveat of being from the HPP modded perspective (which makes the supply situation actually even harder). Essentially, the Japanese supply situation in the Outer Manchuria region is the worst, since not only is the infrastructure poor in most of that region but this is the part of the campaign when Japan has the most divisions along the front which makes the logistics simply nightmarish. Once they have taken the area north of Manchukuo, Japan can consolidate its forces along one shorter front and the supply situation becomes much easier.

Additionally, the supply situation in Mongolia despite its infrastructure is usually fairly tolerable because of the Trans-Siberian Railway that runs along the northern border, which Japan can direct its advance along and in this campaign they have done so to a good extent, but their advance is likely to become limited due to how much expansion they have done in the north. IMO it's better in the north to advance just enough to take all the air bases, and then hold that front while pushing along the Railway to keep the supply trains running and strike at Soviet VPs.

Looking at the maps of that region, I would guess that the Japanese will probably be able to advance into Irkutsk and Tannu Tuva, but not much farther before they overextend both their front line and supply trains. They've done about as much damage as they can with that AI-led strategy, and shouldn't be much more of a worry as long as we can hold back the nasty Germans along the Patriotic Front. If the Germans break through, then those extra VPs could end up making a difference.
 
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Having recently played partway through a Japanese invasion of Siberia and Mongolia myself, I can offer some insights from the Japanese side, with the caveat of being from the HPP modded perspective (which makes the supply situation actually even harder). Essentially, the Japanese supply situation in the Outer Manchuria region is the worst, since not only is the infrastructure poor in most of that region but this is the part of the campaign when Japan has the most divisions along the front which makes the logistics simply nightmarish. Once they have taken the area north of Manchukuo, Japan can consolidate its forces along one shorter front and the supply situation becomes much easier.

Additionally, the supply situation in Mongolia despite its infrastructure is usually fairly tolerable because of the Trans-Siberian Railway that runs along the northern border, which Japan can direct its advance along and in this campaign they have done so to a good extent, but their advance is likely to become limited due to how much expansion they have done in the north. IMO it's better in the north to advance just enough to take all the air bases, and then hold that front while pushing along the Railway to keep the supply trains running and strike at Soviet VPs.

Looking at the maps of that region, I would guess that the Japanese will probably be able to advance into Irkutsk and Tannu Tuva, but not much farther before they overextend both their front line and supply trains. They've done about as much damage as they can with that AI-led strategy, and shouldn't be much more of a worry as long as we can hold back the nasty Germans along the Patriotic Front. If the Germans break through, then those extra VPs could end up making a difference.

Well that is good news and fortunetly enough, something thst in-game Russian intelligence could probably figure out. So they can concentrate on the germans and/or smash them in a good operation.

Still, would only be a light in a quite serious situation...we need a re-think of the situation here.
 
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I'm not sure if defensivess and toughness are really the most useful stats. They are of course nice to have, but I never prioritized them (in HoI2). For example if there is a digital computing machine tech which is not ahead of time, we can think about that.
Maybe, but I like to keep the core of the army - the inf divs - up to current 'state of the art' standards and the next level of inf equipment research is all available now without penalty (1942 horizon for L6). And I can never research them all at once, so need to get going on them. And (without ever having done the science/maths on it) with what looks like it is store, I may as well go for something defensive first. I will check on the computing machine option when the time comes next, but IIRC I'd already researched that up to the present - but could be wrong - or maybe that was back in 1940. As I say, I'll have a look.
Is this the doing of Diken? We have to apprehend him/her/it/them and perform a blot.
No, the Thorn/Diken is more about gaining 'friendly competitor' non-game intel out of the UGNR and probably trying to influence Turkey in Britain's favour - or give Turkey reasons to be grateful for/support Britain more. Especially with their interests in the Middle east and concerns now that Turkey has taken Saudi Arabia. Hence the idea from the Thorn of maybe doing something in the espionage space that might earn some kudos/gratitude from the Turks. ;) But Kaya, Ogel & co don't know any of that. They just want to capture and interrogate Diken.
Language nitpick: It should be 1. Motorize Tümen. Motorlu means "with engines" so 1 Motorlu Tümen is literally "a division with an engine".
Ah, thanks, when I get the chance I'll edit the save file and previous updates for authenticity! Must have it accurate. :) At least Google translate didn't deliver up something that meant "oven-broiled tractor" or some other amusing nonsense! :D
Not having a leader is really a bad thing. I hope Tac Command 2 and 3, and then Sup Firepower is researched soon and we have 5 bde divs. That'll take at least like a year or so I guess?
Indeed - and there was no time to transfer a new leader in, because you take a big organisation penalty if you do. :oops: It is going to take some time with the Neolithic Turkish research capacity. Which will be eroded further if we start losing major centres of research in the Balkans. :(
I like it better when the different aspects of the AAR are intertwined like this instead of separate sections :)
Good to know. In this episode, I had deliberately shortened it (time span covered, screenies and words), first to make it a little quicker to produce (those epic chapters take a lot of horsepower and time) and easier to digest. It also gave more space for stand-alone illustrations and narrative diversions. Sometimes though, the Secret War events need a dedicated slab of text/sub-section to get across. I vary it according to need - and author's whim! I also like to tinker with things so the format stays familiar but doesn't get too stale. I don't keep a checklist of "must have one of these, one of those, and then another of them" in every episode, whether they are songs, narrative pieces, newspapers, characters, videos etc. :)
A black day indeed, but at least now we know the divisions do not disappear. A worst case study for Romania.
Yes, more on the strategic situation below. But my general rule is (allowing for some occasional dramatic license in the writing ;) ) that things are not usually as bad as you fear they may be, no as good as you hope they are. With the occasional exception. That has been the case so far in this game, which has had a satisfying mix of "swings and roundabouts", as we would say, or "snakes and ladders". It makes it easier for me to remain uncertain about the in-game future and developments (as has been discussed before) by not only playing and writing (so not knowing what happens next), but doing it in a strategic situation which is pretty unusual and has no common 'it always goes this way' blueprint to follow. :cool:
I'm puzzled...
Good! :p Also, see above re British motives: in that game, it's all about what you can do for others that either makes them owe you one, or that you yourself can learn something new from. And if it all helps to fight the mutual enemy, then that's good too. As for what Cagliari may hold for Cennet ... stay tuned, as they say! :)
How the hell are the Japanese still in supply?
Looks like the hive mind has helped us try to understand that a bit better in subsequent discussion. My 'no tag for unreasonable knowledge' rule applies here, so I won't be doing that to check out Japanese logistics, even though that may help confirm the question. I will though see what I can from the supply screens, including of any Mongolian supply stockpiles and infra from old saves when they were still in the game. 'Records passed across from Soviet sources'.
 
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Thanks as always for your efforts SkitalecS3. Please say hello to 'Odin' for me! ;)
In light of recent developments, you can't research Mass Assault quickly enough...
Agreed. Though with this very low leadership, I can never research anything quickly enough. :( But that was part of the deliberate handicap I granted the enemy AI in picking a minor to play, so I shouldn't complain too much. :rolleyes: Just a bit.
The fact that several Mongolian units remain in the field is better news than I had expected. Pravda is still celebrating the heroes of Urumqi, where there is 'heavy fighting', but those who know are glad for those few divisions.
I knew any on Soviet territory should keep in the fight (as a few Belgian units did when they caved in 1940) - and at least some did.
@diskoerekto said: How the hell are the Japanese still in supply?
Red Army Logisticiens are still trying to figure that one out... one theory being that the Japanese troops there are using the national Mongolian supply pile they captured when they took Ulaanbaatar to supplement the many gaps in their own supply network. If that is the case, the Japanese supply situation should deteriorate eventually...
As above in reply to @diskoerekto and more discussion below, will find out what I can on that front, but basically (other than trying to gauge the effect on Soviet staying power in the west) it is not something I can change - just observe and hope it abates and the Japanese pay for their aggression by becoming overextended if/when the US (in particular) hits them.
Cagliari is surely full of mystery, danger, and excitement... I'm sure Cennet will find something interesting there.
I think she will. The British wouldn't go to these ends if it was nothing. And of course they hope to get something out of it too (info, access and influence and perhaps a careful working partnership between MI6 and S.I.T.H. against the Axis, etc).
The front in Romania isn't looking to good. I will try once more to weigh on STAVKA to get you a couple more units, but of course, with the whole Mongolia thing, I can't promise anything. It would surely be a shame to see the Germans break through the front in Romania, putting both the Southern Soviet front, and the Yeniceri line in danger of encirclement.
Romania is looking difficult, but then again it has for most of the last year and the Axis are only now just past Cluj after a year of trying. You may recall the main objective of the Wolf Pack attack was to divert the Germans, prevent a collapse on the Southern Sector in the Ukraine and try to keep Romania afloat for as long as possible. Despite drawing the ire of the Axis onto the Turkish-Romanian sector intersection at Timisoara, on balance I think it's mainly worked.

The Soviets are now looking fairly good for now in the Ukraine and eastern Romania - even taking back a few provinces in places - when before it was their weakest front and a panzer breakout into the open plains was a real danger. The Axis have had to pay a heavy price - in men, supplies, time and opportunity cost - for what they've got in the Balkans. When they should have been breaking through in Russia, doing mass encirclements and seizing their productive capacity. If we can keep them entangled here until the winter, then that should go a long way to contributing to the greater good.

Everything we've been able to retain control of in the Balkans this last year has been a bonus: remember the original plan was to fall back to the two fortified lines. OK, British inaction in support of France and the Soviet AI's relative timidity in attacking the Germans while they were still occupied in France both contributed to France's fall (an ironic outcome given what they themselves had helped do to Poland). So we didn't manage to keep them in the war beyond 1940. But got something out of it. And if Romania finally falls (and it will still take some doing, as most of the VPs are way down south in Bucharesti & Ploiesti) then that will be a pity, but they have already lasted a lot longer than I thought they would. And we may have cursed the sidelining of so many Romanian units in the Far East and en- route there across the vast steppe when they would have been better used defending their homeland. But that probably meant fewer Soviet units diverted there - and there should be a large Romanian army-in-exile if the Bucharesti does finally fall.
We will always remember Timisoara.
Amen.
 
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Well, as the line falls back upon our more developed works, the line shortens, freeing up divisions which can be called upon to take the fight to the enemy! At the very least, to make the fight harder for the enemy.
Quite right. The presence of those final lines, and some decent intermediate ones on the way back, played a large part in emboldening the Turkish High Command to defend so far forward in the Balkans in the first place. And if the Axis are eventually held and we can maintain our bridgeheads in Europe, they will need to be careful to garrison properly themselves, lest we strike them and launch our own breakout when the tide turns in Russia. "Inonu will return!". Vur ha! ;)
 
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I told you all this would happen dammit! ;)Right, so it looks like the Germans are serious about smashing through us and the Romanians at the same time (or at least pinning us down so we dare not send anything to romania to make a new front or line there). Basically, we are in serious trouble. From the looks of what was captured everywhere else, the axis may hace even stripped back on somr other fronts to supply more troops here (at best, it seems italy has awoken and is throwing it all at us).
Inonu has always been sceptical of the longer-term forward defensive sustainability, but has (I think correctly so far) judged that it was worth it in the long run, even if we must fall all the way back to the fixed defensive lines. And the more they send against us, the less they have to bring the Soviets down, where the war will be won or lost. As long as Turkey can prevent any major encirclements and sustain depth defences, then the broad war aims are served. Of course, things could really turn to custard, but that will just make for even more tense story-telling! A win-lose-win situation. ;)
...we have plans for this but none of them leave us much wiggle room to manouver. If we go back to the next line or the final ones, we can't pull that raider stuff again. We've bought all the time possible for russia. Time for them to step up. All we can do now is occupy the axis for as long as possible till they either suffer a setback elsewhere and react or they take romania down and we have to run.
Yes, definitely agreed. But first, the Axis has to sustain its assault in Romania long enough to really crack the whole thing wide open, rather than just force a gradual fall-back. And, with the Yeniçeri Line, there's no infra investment being lost - just the good defensive terrain and the major cities being shielded by it. Beograd being the most vulnerable - it will hurt if lost. :(
The best we can hope for is a solidifed Y line holding them off and wasting troops they cold be usong making the push into romania relativly painless for tbem. As it stands, they shouldnt chsnge this strstefy of pinning us down and smashing romania because I think its the most efdective one they cpuld have picked. So...we should prepare a foghting retreat acriss Yuguslavia. Hold out for now but of course with us pinned to that line, romania might fall unexpectedly and then we risk being cut off.
Yes, that's the plan.
This is not a good situation to be in. We better pray that tbe Brits found an Enigma in Caligari and already have B Park up and running. And that they are going to win in africa because if not, they have a hard fight ahead of them. In the east, the axis are winning now.
We shouldn't be cut-off completely, even if we tarry a little too long in western Yugoslavia: if necessary, they can head south to Greece and the Iskandar Line (which will need some substantial forces to hold it anyway), with any excess troops being ferried out by sea (where the Med is now a far safer place and we had previously built up our transport fleet for just such an eventuality). This means at least a corps or two of troops can make use of the terrain as they withdraw south to Greece while the remainder of the troops fall back via a Salonika-Sofiya-Bucharesti axis to the Calistar Line on the Bosporus. That's the general concept if required, anyway, depending on how things unfold.
 
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Having recently played partway through a Japanese invasion of Siberia and Mongolia myself, I can offer some insights from the Japanese side, with the caveat of being from the HPP modded perspective (which makes the supply situation actually even harder). Essentially, the Japanese supply situation in the Outer Manchuria region is the worst, since not only is the infrastructure poor in most of that region but this is the part of the campaign when Japan has the most divisions along the front which makes the logistics simply nightmarish. Once they have taken the area north of Manchukuo, Japan can consolidate its forces along one shorter front and the supply situation becomes much easier.
This is really useful analysis, Nukeluru Slorepee - I think you will have to be conferred an honorary in-game doctorate from the Ataturk Institute of Strategic Studies! I haven't played a proper Japan game (in HOI3, anyway) - my main Far East experience being beating them as Nationalist China way back - and leading Australia to victory against them about 10 years ago in HOI1!
Additionally, the supply situation in Mongolia despite its infrastructure is usually fairly tolerable because of the Trans-Siberian Railway that runs along the northern border, which Japan can direct its advance along and in this campaign they have done so to a good extent, but their advance is likely to become limited due to how much expansion they have done in the north. IMO it's better in the north to advance just enough to take all the air bases, and then hold that front while pushing along the Railway to keep the supply trains running and strike at Soviet VPs.
As mentioned in other responses above, I'll see what I can of the supply situation via our Soviet allies next time.
Looking at the maps of that region, I would guess that the Japanese will probably be able to advance into Irkutsk and Tannu Tuva, but not much farther before they overextend both their front line and supply trains. They've done about as much damage as they can with that AI-led strategy, and shouldn't be much more of a worry as long as we can hold back the nasty Germans along the Patriotic Front. If the Germans break through, then those extra VPs could end up making a difference.
Yes, Tannu Tuva looks vulnerable now - just hope they're forced to fight for it. And re the Patriotic Front: very much so, and why (while it makes things more difficult for me as Turkey in the short term) I'm not displeased the Germans have thrown so much my way when they should have been striking east. With the timings now catching up with OTL, this is the equivalent of their delay to Barbarossa when taking down Yugoslavia and Greece: and this is a far nastier fight that will take far longer than the two walk-overs they had there. Even if they win most of the Balkans, they will still need guard against a Turkish counter-attack. And they are not hitting an unprepared Soviet Union either. As we keep saying, the counter-balance in this ATL is the two-font war (with Japan), but again that may have come with Barbarossa anyway. The real test will be where things stand by around December 1941 compared to OTL. Another seven long months of fighting away! :eek:
Well that is good news and fortunetly enough, something thst in-game Russian intelligence could probably figure out. So they can concentrate on the germans and/or smash them in a good operation.

Still, would only be a light in a quite serious situation...we need a re-think of the situation here.
Oh, the consequences of this possible German breakout have been long-considered and thought through. It is the specific operation details that will be improvised, within the range of contingency plans available. But first, the Germans need to take the Yeniçeri Line (and/or Romania) out of the respective defenders' cold dead hands! :D
 
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No, the Thorn/Diken is more about gaining 'friendly competitor' non-game intel out of the UGNR and probably trying to influence Turkey in Britain's favour - or give Turkey reasons to be grateful for/support Britain more. Especially with their interests in the Middle east and concerns now that Turkey has taken Saudi Arabia. Hence the idea from the Thorn of maybe doing something in the espionage space that might earn some kudos/gratitude from the Turks. ;) But Kaya, Ogel & co don't know any of that. They just want to capture and interrogate Diken.
Good to know the situation now. I was starting to see Diken under every stone :D

Ah, thanks, when I get the chance I'll edit the save file and previous updates for authenticity! Must have it accurate. :) At least Google translate didn't deliver up something that meant "oven-broiled tractor" or some other amusing nonsense! :D
You're welcome, and if any propaganda source needs it, "Remember Timisoara!" is "Temeşvar'ı Hatırla!"

Indeed - and there was no time to transfer a new leader in, because you take a big organisation penalty if you do. :oops: It is going to take some time with the Neolithic Turkish research capacity. Which will be eroded further if we start losing major centres of research in the Balkans. :(
Oh that would be such a big loss, we already lack a lot of leadership points. I hope we don't lose more ground. Speaking of tech, in HoI2 there was this thing called blueprints which you can buy (most of the time for free from one's allies and in exchange for some resources etc from 3d parties) that was making the research of that tech 50% easier. I take that is not a thing in the game? Do we get to influence what our puppet is researching? If Romania stays alive maybe we can instruct them to go in a direction that we didn't and ask for blueprints/license builds?

Of course all this assumes we will keep our ground against that fascist scum.

Good to know. In this episode, I had deliberately shortened it (time span covered, screenies and words), first to make it a little quicker to produce (those epic chapters take a lot of horsepower and time) and easier to digest. It also gave more space for stand-alone illustrations and narrative diversions. Sometimes though, the Secret War events need a dedicated slab of text/sub-section to get across. I vary it according to need - and author's whim! I also like to tinker with things so the format stays familiar but doesn't get too stale. I don't keep a checklist of "must have one of these, one of those, and then another of them" in every episode, whether they are songs, narrative pieces, newspapers, characters, videos etc. :)
I don't want to affect how the AAR is presented because I really like how it is, just wanted to say I liked the back and forth to the secret war in the middle of the actual war.

stay tuned, as they say! :)
I'm anxiously waiting :D

"Inonu will return!". Vur ha! ;)
This will become a quote in history like Atatürk's famous one.

As they came, so will they go! (Turkish: Geldikleri gibi giderler!)
  • (13th November 1918 - Bosphorus - When he sees that The Allied Fleet in Bosphorus)
 
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Quite right. The presence of those final lines, and some decent intermediate ones on the way back, played a large part in emboldening the Turkish High Command to defend so far forward in the Balkans in the first place. And if the Axis are eventually held and we can maintain our bridgeheads in Europe, they will need to be careful to garrison properly themselves, lest we strike them and launch our own breakout when the tide turns in Russia. "Inonu will return!". Vur ha! ;)

Given that--IIRC--the Regina Marina is at the bottom of the Med (or at least the majority of its major fleet units are, sufficient that our lone battlecruiser could stop enemy forces), one of the two points of the Yenciri line wouldn't even need to be held, because we would hold the maritime areas between them, allowing us time to build strength and pull an Inchon-style landing in their rear!
 
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It is going to take some time with the Neolithic Turkish research capacity. Which will be eroded further if we start losing major centres of research in the Balkans. :(

Not to jump off-topic, but this is one of the (many) aspects HPP got right, by making all LP tied to laws and modifiers rather than provinces. In real life, if you have top scientists at a lab in Munich, and the Brits start advancing in that direction, you don't let them go down with the ship - you load 'em on a train and ship 'em off to Dresden or somewhere else with as many top-secret research files as they can carry! But, alas, we must play the game we have begun, here.

This is really useful analysis, Nukeluru Slorepee - I think you will have to be conferred an honorary in-game doctorate from the Ataturk Institute of Strategic Studies!

I shall frame it over my desk in the war correspondent's room at whatever journalistic institution it is I work for, anyway! :D

I haven't played a proper Japan game (in HOI3, anyway) - my main Far East experience being beating them as Nationalist China way back - and leading Australia to victory against them about 10 years ago in HOI1!

I'd say either Japan or Italy are my favorites to play, and I highly recommend both (along with China, of course, but you've done that already). Plenty to do on both land and sea, lots of options for early wars or different directions of conquest, but at the same time you're not the overwhelming force of nature that is Germany or the USSR, you still have to work for your rewards. I actually find Germany the most boring nation to play as, personally.
 
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No, the Thorn/Diken is more about gaining 'friendly competitor' non-game intel out of the UGNR and probably trying to influence Turkey in Britain's favour - or give Turkey reasons to be grateful for/support Britain more. Especially with their interests in the Middle east and concerns now that Turkey has taken Saudi Arabia. Hence the idea from the Thorn of maybe doing something in the espionage space that might earn some kudos/gratitude from the Turks. ;) But Kaya, Ogel & co don't know any of that. They just want to capture and interrogate Diken.

Well at least someone in the British government is thinking about what will happen after the war. It's pretty clear at this point that either the Turks take over everything or a bunch of really messy colony lines take control of random parts of a soon to be very valuable desert and trade region. So on the whole, getting the favour of the Union is probably a good idea, especially if they want to keep that Persian oil company and the rights to the Suez Canal (cos I bet the French will sell as soon as they have a table back to sign on).

I think she will. The British wouldn't go to these ends if it was nothing. And of course they hope to get something out of it too (info, access and influence and perhaps a careful working partnership between MI6 and S.I.T.H. against the Axis, etc).

True. If C is still running French intelligence, he'll win the day a lot but absolutely no one will be capable of working with him or his agents so if the Brits want anything done they have to either do it themselves or talk to us (or their meat shields but they must be scrapping the barre; by now).

Romania is looking difficult, but then again it has for most of the last year and the Axis are only now just past Cluj after a year of trying. You may recall the main objective of the Wolf Pack attack was to divert the Germans, prevent a collapse on the Southern Sector in the Ukraine and try to keep Romania afloat for as long as possible. Despite drawing the ire of the Axis onto the Turkish-Romanian sector intersection at Timisoara, on balance I think it's mainly worked.
The Axis have had to pay a heavy price - in men, supplies, time and opportunity cost - for what they've got in the Balkans. When they should have been breaking through in Russia, doing mass encirclements and seizing their productive capacity. If we can keep them entangled here until the winter, then that should go a long way to contributing to the greater good.
Everything we've been able to retain control of in the Balkans this last year has been a bonus: remember the original plan was to fall back to the two fortified lines.
And if Romania finally falls (and it will still take some doing, as most of the VPs are way down south in Bucharesti & Ploiesti) then that will be a pity, but they have already lasted a lot longer than I thought they would.
Inonu has always been sceptical of the longer-term forward defensive sustainability, but has (I think correctly so far) judged that it was worth it in the long run, even if we must fall all the way back to the fixed defensive lines. And the more they send against us, the less they have to bring the Soviets down, where the war will be won or lost. As long as Turkey can prevent any major encirclements and sustain depth defences, then the broad war aims are served. Of course, things could really turn to custard, but that will just make for even more tense story-telling! A win-lose-win situation. ;)
And, with the Yeniçeri Line, there's no infra investment being lost - just the good defensive terrain and the major cities being shielded by it.

This is all true. In that respect, we did all actually want this situation to come about and have the Axis focus on our huge and well thought out defensive line (basically the entire Balkans) rather than going after valuable Russian lands. However, here will be a steep price paid. Not only will the Union morale fall low having lost a third of the country but the people in those bits will not be happy. After all, the Nazis have given a pretty good indication of exactly what they're going to do to the Slavs when they get their hands on them. Unless you want an entirely depopulated region after the war and mass immigration and refugees coming over the Turkish heartlands, we need to defend this region really, really well. A generation hangs in the balance.

Also, can we have some projections for what the planned for 'last stand' line of defences will leave us in terms of manpower, population, tech, production etc? I know we'll still have all of turkey and Persia (big plus, glad we went for that) as well as Arabia but what are we going to lose in exchange for easier defence?

Given that--IIRC--the Regina Marina is at the bottom of the Med (or at least the majority of its major fleet units are, sufficient that our lone battlecruiser could stop enemy forces), one of the two points of the Yenciri line wouldn't even need to be held, because we would hold the maritime areas between them, allowing us time to build strength and pull an Inchon-style landing in their rear!

Hmm...it seems to me that what we are all hoping for, as Bulfliter confirmed above, is the Y line to hold and stand strong for as long as possible and for the Germans to slow down but not halt their assault on Romania. So...could we do something navally to distract or freak out the Italians and Germans like the wolf-pack thing did (yes, recognise the irony of me suggesting this but since we committed to it...)?

Maybe we could find a way to help out the British in Sardinia and Corsica so they might either land more troops in Africa or (and I really hope they're mad enough to try this) smash into the Italian homeland itself? That would do the trick! If nothing else, securing the islands means the Brits AI has to reset and think about doing something else, and pretty much doing anything else would be good for us. Doomed landing in Norway, doomed landing in Amsterdam (seen that a few times), doomed landing in France...

In short, is there something that our limited fleet and reserve forces can do that will either freak out the Axis AI into moving units around again (time is precious here) or provoking the British into doing something the Axis really won't like?
 
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Knock off Malta? Perhaps Sicily? With limited forces, it's unfortunate, but we'd have to go to them to do anything terribly disconcerting. I like the Malta route (pretty sure that Italy already took it) because we can then base planes out of there and start hammering their convoys (something that the British might not be doing), which might make life on the Brits easier in Libya.
 
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Knock off Malta? Perhaps Sicily? With limited forces, it's unfortunate, but we'd have to go to them to do anything terribly disconcerting. I like the Malta route (pretty sure that Italy already took it) because we can then base planes out of there and start hammering their convoys (something that the British might not be doing), which might make life on the Brits easier in Libya.

I should qualify, doing ANYTHING that would move anyone away from the Axis attack on Romania or the Balkans would be great right now, even if it's temporary. Moving some Italian fighters away to defend their bases in the Med, great! Moving some of their troops away to defend something elsewhere, great!

All we need to do is make sure that the reserves we take to do the job are made up for by the losses on the other side, right? So if Malta can get taken or seriously threatened by what we have, great! Especially because I assume the Brits are either going there or Sicily next anyway, based off of their apathy towards Africa and their total domination of the seas. Basically, we're trying to recreate the wolfpack idea again: wreak havoc with the AI to the point that they rearrange a significant portion of their battle plan/units to go somewhere else. If we can get them to lean off our defence to give us time to rebuild and then get them to attack us again (wasting even more of their time and resources, and buying time for Russia) that would be excellent.

In-universe, the Axis have probably decided (correctly) that whilst Russia is the big target, Romania is a far easier one and Turkey is waaaay too dangerous and aggressive to just leave till later. If the Italians weren't stuck in Africa, they'd probably get stuck with the job of fighting us with some German help. As it stands, it's rather the other way around. So we should aim to either get rid of their support (the Italians, which makes their own assault more wasteful for them personally) or get everyone to go slower and give us time to rebuild defences.

Essentially, whilst I still think this has the potential to go really badly for us, that's only if we let them keep smashing us as they are doing now. We need to come up with some operation to leave the Axis in a quagmire to save our bacon. But anything would help really. Something to get rid of the planes or the troops.
 
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