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Urza1234

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I'm having trouble fitting Clone Vats into my strategic vision of the game.
Its a feature that takes up a building slot, doesnt employ anyone, doesnt contribute or interact with planet-specialization, and has an upkeep.
At the same time; "growth is king".

Its difficult for me to rationalize when and where to use them.
 

trojan1234

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The decision 'encourage planatary growth' cost 8.33 food per month for 25% growth while clone vats cost 2 energy and building slot for 33% growth. If you think EPG decision is worth to enact, clone vat is worth to build too.
 

Incompetent

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Each Clone Vat gives you about 1 more new pop every 100 months. For most playstyles, in the long run you'll be thankful for all those extra pops (unless you are going super-tall or playing an extremely long game, the game will already be over by the time you have 'too many' pops). Not employing anyone is a good thing (again, unless you've reached the point where you've really run out of things to do with your pops), because for the most part you'll be putting them on new colonies or half-empty Ecumenopolises, where there are plenty of jobs to do and not enough pops to do everything. The only building I'd give higher priority to on a new colony is a robot factory, as it gives about twice as much pop growth as a clone vat (albeit at a greater cost).

Incidentally, if you suddenly have an opportunity to conquer a bunch of planets, then clone armies are great: they're like regular armies except they cost a bit less and can be recruited three times as fast. With clone vats everywhere, there's no need for long sieges: during the war, you can just churn out armies all over the place and conquer planets WH40k-style, by sending more bodies than the enemy has dakka.

You can always replace the clone vat with something else later if you're approaching the carrying capacity of your planets.
 
Last edited:

CrowScape

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You build them in the first available building slot. You remove them when you have filled up the planet and are tired of constantly resettling the unemployed pops.
 

Piotrzeci

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Economy is fueled by population, so upkeep doesn't matter. As long as you can employ your people with a "wasted" building slot it is worth having. Some people will calculate how to best increase growth with edicts, policy, clone vats, but in fact you can just have everything on at the same time.
I never got into a situation when spending first or second free building on clone vats would be mean unemployment (the other building slot just goes to a gee clinic), so why not get more pops filling the planet?
 

beckermt

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Clone Vats are especially awesome if you're using any of the special slavery types, since they bring their own jobs with. You'll get more building slots than you have Pops that can actually work specialist jobs.

If you're not using special slavery, then Clone Vats are just awesome, not especially awesome.
 

Urza1234

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(unless you are going super-tall or playing an extremely long game
Yes, this may explain my, I suppose, unusual experience. I've been playing on 1/2 tech speed as a matter of course, and sometimes using a tall playstyle. Depending on what techs are thrown at me, by the time I can even research cloning vats I'll sometimes have 80-90% of my planets already at capacity, with as many building slots as they can support used, and sometimes upgraded.
 

Piotrzeci

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But it's a good thing.
That's why they are valuable and clinics aren't.
Clinics ask you to "sacrifice" a pop to get one more pop every 50 years. Cloning vats only ask you for a slot and resources.
Clinics give a very healthy amount of amenities. Pops working there don't go to waste on just pop-growth.
 

alexti

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The decision 'encourage planatary growth' cost 8.33 food per month for 25% growth while clone vats cost 2 energy and building slot for 33% growth. If you think EPG decision is worth to enact, clone vat is worth to build too.
I don't think that one follows from another. In the early game it's the building slots which is the most critical resource. Generally you have enough pops for all your buildings plus some more that are employed in some marginally useful districts. So those extra pops are producing food anyway which makes EPG no-brainer. But building clone vats takes away a slot which could have been alloy factory or research lab. So you can view it as 6 alloys vs 33% population growth. I think clone vats become a good choice only after you've researched advanced buildings and building slots are not that critical anymore.
 

evilcat

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Use them on planets with many mining, or some more advanced production buildings. Once you reach close to top remove clone vats for something else.
You can have building temporary, especially stuff like robots or pop growth.
 

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The only problem with CV for me that they require 4 perks and luck in getting proper techs early on. More often than not I can build them 100+ after game start, and at that point core worlds are set and solid, and 1 pop every 10 years is not worth it there. But in some cases, like L-cluster or Thrall Worlds, they fit right in. Not that they are useless, no, but come too late to become astonishing.
 

trojan1234

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I don't think that one follows from another. In the early game it's the building slots which is the most critical resource. Generally you have enough pops for all your buildings plus some more that are employed in some marginally useful districts. So those extra pops are producing food anyway which makes EPG no-brainer. But building clone vats takes away a slot which could have been alloy factory or research lab. So you can view it as 6 alloys vs 33% population growth. I think clone vats become a good choice only after you've researched advanced buildings and building slots are not that critical anymore.

Clone vats become available after Engineered evolution perk, which is gated by tier 3 tech gene tailoring. You can unlock tier2 buildings which requires tier2 techs of strategic resources before clone bats.
 

trojan1234

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The only problem with CV for me that they require 4 perks and luck in getting proper techs early on. More often than not I can build them 100+ after game start, and at that point core worlds are set and solid, and 1 pop every 10 years is not worth it there. But in some cases, like L-cluster or Thrall Worlds, they fit right in. Not that they are useless, no, but come too late to become astonishing.

Requirement for clone vat is Engineered Evolution, only requires 2nd slot. Main bottleneck is tier 3 tech gene tailoring. Players who understand tech tiers can unlock in 2250-60s.
 

alexti

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Clone vats become available after Engineered evolution perk, which is gated by tier 3 tech gene tailoring. You can unlock tier2 buildings which requires tier2 techs of strategic resources before clone bats.
There is more society research and engineering (where important building upgrades are) has a lot of important technologies. So it's common to get Engineered evolution before all (or any) tier 2 buildings.
 

trojan1234

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Ops, stay corrected. Gene tailoring can be evasive tho', even with bio specialist.

If you unlock 3tier social tech with proper sets of tier 2, it isn't that hard to roll.
 

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Ops, stay corrected. Gene tailoring can be evasive tho', even with bio specialist.

Preach. Not to mention trying to draw it when I can't find a bio expert either... I'm frequently hitting tech level 4 before it pops up, even if I try to minimise big branches.

Edit: Another issue is Colonial Centralization. I always run robots so I really need Droid tech sooner than later which forces me to research it even if it uncovers 6 competing tier 3 techs, further delaying gene tailoring from showing up.
 

trojan1234

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There is more society research and engineering (where important building upgrades are) has a lot of important technologies. So it's common to get Engineered evolution before all (or any) tier 2 buildings.

That neglects how many social special projects (especially those investigate aliens) there exist in game. Generally social teir 3 comes way later than engineering tier 3.
 

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Uh, really? Lol.

Cloning Vats are one of the best buildings in the game. You build them as your second building on a planet and remove it once the planet has reached it's peak population
doesnt employ anyone
This alone leads me to believe that you don't understand how planets work. I think there are a few tutorials online that might be worth checking out for you.

No, it doesn't employ anyone, but there are other jobs on a planet people can take. You use it to have pops grow faster to fill up jobs that aren't being worked faster. You should always keep at least 2 jobs(and housing available for people to work at(live at) and once you cannot add more and there is a balance, you remove the cloning vat for something else.

Seriously, you ever use a ecumenopolis? It has a buttload of specialist jobs and housing.
  1. Find a good planet to turn into ecumenopolis
  2. Colonize it and spam city districts
  3. Once the total jobs reaches 5, resettle pops onto the planet to reach 5 total pops
  4. Build cloning vat
  5. Once the total jobs reaches 10, resettle pops onto the planet to reach 10 total pops
  6. Build gene clinic
  7. Once you have all city districts build, start with the astrology project
  8. During it's building time, fill up empty building slots on the planet with what you want to specialize the planet to be, consumer goods or alloys
  9. Once the project finishes, start working on either alloy or consumer goods districts(foundry/industrial)
  10. You should have hundreds of available specialist jobs and housing for the pops, and cloning vats will help you reach that amount of pops much faster.
There, now you can literally beat Grand Admiral AI in the late game.