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    Real Strategy Requires Cunning

This thread is more than 5 months old.

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Alfredian

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So Andrei, the most successful Rurikovich in living memory, offs himself to get an express ticket to Harry's place?

Its not a bad plan. Mortal sin > straight to hell. No getting snarled up in paperwork like poor Ukko.
 

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Great stuff. I love the infighting with between Harry and Astarte, the constant suffering and curing of the plague on various people is simply superb. Truly both Harry and Astarte seem like an old married couple, although I fear for any kids that union would bring.

I recommend the end of Book II of Paradise Lost - I believe Milton suggests the outcome of their ... errm ... 'union' was sin (do have to remember this is NOT the mount and blade forum

Poor Andrei though, driven to death due to a lack of Marshal injuries, that is truly the main measure of a great Rurikovich ruler however.

sort of its all gone so well so far ... its only going to go downhill from now ... best I commit suicide to avoid all the hassle then?

Well, no, but I can see what Wikipedia has to say (and Wikipedia only talks about a river, not a forest. But a river of boiling blood - nice).

That bout of plague-fighting really ramps up the old-married-couple vibe ("I did it!" "Oh no you don't" "Oh yes I did" "Oh no you didn't" etc. etc.). :)

So Andrei, the most successful Rurikovich in living memory, offs himself to get an express ticket to Harry's place? Seems ill-thought-out. Of course, after the plague, all the deaths at court, the blindness... Perhaps it's understandable. Not to mention that his wife gives birth to a son named 'Bugger'. That can't be a good omen...

PS: Was it a slip of the keyboard (or overzealous auto-correct), or did Astarte insult Harry by calling him 'Harold'? :)

I think Astarte may be channelling some passive-agressive stuff there ... bit like starting a comment with 'all due respect', fortunately Bugger is removed from the line of succession fairly soon .., well maybe its a pity thinking about it?

Its not a bad plan. Mortal sin > straight to hell. No getting snarled up in paperwork like poor Ukko.

Exactly, you can imagine every little Rurikovich is told that whatever they do they must not end up like Ukko

Is Bukhara really on the map?
And the prince too?

The Prince is also the Count of N Dvina (next post), I grabbed that area briefly when bashing Mongols and unifying Russia was what your Rurikovich did.

Now as in the next post, the possibility of a leap to EU3 nears. I'm not sure if its a good idea though there is now enough characterisation to sustain this narrative. Any views?
 

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Boris III: 1356-1361, in which things happen while Boris grows up

Scene 1: Heaven The usual tumult from Harry's camp can be heard.
Raphael is having his half-millenia Performance Review


'thats good, you seem to have really sorted out those problems with France, no more Kingdoms of the Assassins. Byzantium, also very good, looks like its recapturing Asia Minor and driving back the Mongols'

Now, lets look at the Rurikovichs .... ummh, I thought I told you to make sure that the various rulers sort of made sense



its also helpful to ensure they are replaced when they are dead



Did you do anything right?

Well yes

and ...

Well I took a lead in sorting out their spiritual needs

ah yes, thats why I had to replace this idiot for you?



Well your replacement was not that much better



Well that only happened because you didn't resolve the infighting between Harry and Astarte

I mean first Harry gives poor little Ilgazi the plague



then has him exiled



then Yildiz is married off to MY bishop



and sends him nuts with a murder





Well that is a bit unfair and anyway I did improve the cultural values of the court

Did you?



Well I suppose even you can't be blamed for this



but this is a bit of a black mark



some of his classmates weren't that bad



pity about Boris himself though



and to be fair his court looks very good



Scene 2: Dis, Astate's chambers

So Harry thought he'd removed all my humans did he?

Hah, plenty more where they came from



especially when I can secure the throne when Boris dies



( Will Raphael miss out on his performance related pay for the next 500 years? Are the forces of evil marginally more sucessful divided than united? Does Boris realise how much help he's had so far from Harry?
 
Last edited:

Enewald

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That was a quite strange marriage.
Youngest sister of some random count?
 

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That was a quite strange marriage.
Youngest sister of some random count?

But look at those... stats! (Yes, I know, stale joke done several thousand times already)

Poor bishop Elisey - somehow, he got into the sights of Astarte and he never knew what hit him. Not sure how tormenting the replacement bishop is bringing her closer to claiming the soul of King Boris, but hey, whatever floats her boat. ;)

As far as continuing the AAR into EU3 goes, I'm a little hesitant. Doesn't help that Alfred Packer just binned his Crovan AAR because he didn't like the EU3 game. While (obviously) the rivalry between Harry, Astarte and Raphael has been well established, I think it'll be a lot harder to flesh out the incompetent Rurikovichs without the help of all the helpful CK events.

Just my two cents, of course. :)
 

Alfredian

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I have really enjoyed this AAR, but I think that Stuyvesant is right that EU3 does not generate interesting characters in the same way CK does. The division between gameplay and narrative AARs seems much more stark in EU3.

Why has Boris been saddled with a wife who (although Greek) is not even vengeful, suspicious, hostile....... I am sure this will hold him back.
 

morningSIDEr

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Being labelled a mischievious blackguard at a relatively young age, I have high hopes for Boris, he looks a very promising Rurikovich ruler! Plus he has been saddled with a Greek wife, things look better and better.

As for continuing this AAR into EU3, I hope you do! It is very true that EU3 does not have the same events which drive characters as happens in CK, but I still think the format of this AAR would play out well in EU3. There are enough events which trigger in EU3, which can be portrayed as showing any Rurikovich in a good or bad light or could be used as proof of Harry or Astarte's interference. Plus with Divine Wind coming out soon, I'm rather hoping there will be even more character driven events added. The main question however is whether or not you enjoy EU3 enough to continue the AAR there. If so, please do, I'd love to see this continue!

I would also be very interested to see an overview of the world in your current game so as to see how Europe is looking at present. As if it is a true mix of states, that would make any EU3 game all the more interesting!
 

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The other option, of course, is a prequel Rome game.
 

Alfredian

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The other option, of course, is a prequel Rome game.

I like that idea. The ancient Greeks/Romans knew a thing or two about vengeful deities getting involved with things. Their gods also got away with implausible stunts (like seducing people while disguised as a swan), that would make Harry sick with jealousy
 

loki100

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That was a quite strange marriage.
Youngest sister of some random count?

Well as Stuyvesant says ... look at the stats! Also I want to become an Emperor and it costs 8000+ prestige just to get a claim in, which is not easy given that my kings are tending to die fairly early and I'm a bit stuck with high BB score at the moment (so its costing a lot to keep the vassals in line). So my plan is to generate a number of potential lines to a claim through setting up marriages in and around the Empire.

But look at those... stats! (Yes, I know, stale joke done several thousand times already)

Poor bishop Elisey - somehow, he got into the sights of Astarte and he never knew what hit him. Not sure how tormenting the replacement bishop is bringing her closer to claiming the soul of King Boris, but hey, whatever floats her boat. ;)

well if you've been as unsuccessful as the forces of evil have been for the last 3 centuries (or not - see the upcoming post), you'll take what you can get.

Being labelled a mischievious blackguard at a relatively young age, I have high hopes for Boris, he looks a very promising Rurikovich ruler! Plus he has been saddled with a Greek wife, things look better and better.

As for continuing this AAR into EU3, I hope you do! It is very true that EU3 does not have the same events which drive characters as happens in CK, but I still think the format of this AAR would play out well in EU3. There are enough events which trigger in EU3, which can be portrayed as showing any Rurikovich in a good or bad light or could be used as proof of Harry or Astarte's interference. Plus with Divine Wind coming out soon, I'm rather hoping there will be even more character driven events added. The main question however is whether or not you enjoy EU3 enough to continue the AAR there. If so, please do, I'd love to see this continue!

I would also be very interested to see an overview of the world in your current game so as to see how Europe is looking at present. As if it is a true mix of states, that would make any EU3 game all the more interesting!

The last bit is important if I do make the leap and to be honest its not that interesting. Italy is pretty united and very powerful, the Ilkhanid empire covers all the Near East and reaches up into Anatolia, Byzantium is doing ok, Spain a bit wierd, France and Germany split between a few powerful factions. None of this really warrants an exciting alternate start to EU3.

My problem is, as with the response to Enewald, I'm stuck in game play terms. I've run up a really bad reputation, mainly in the period of Civil Wars so can't be very agressive or I'll end up loosing my current vassals (I'm now very rich so can buy them back to loyalty most of the time), so its rather undynamic. If it wasn't for the AAR, and a determination to actually finish one, I'd have abandoned the game a while back.

As it is, generating the AAR makes it interesting to play.


As far as continuing the AAR into EU3 goes, I'm a little hesitant. Doesn't help that Alfred Packer just binned his Crovan AAR because he didn't like the EU3 game. While (obviously) the rivalry between Harry, Astarte and Raphael has been well established, I think it'll be a lot harder to flesh out the incompetent Rurikovichs without the help of all the helpful CK events.

Just my two cents, of course. :)

I think you're right, in EU3 the Rurikovich bit will tend to be lost. Also I'm aware that I may already be on thin ice with some potential reader's sensibilities & the only way I can think to make this work in EU3 is to sort of make Harry some sort of behind the scenes manipulator (with Astarte his rival and so on). I think that wanders off into terrain that'd be hard to do with any restraint.

The other option, of course, is a prequel Rome game.
I like that idea. The ancient Greeks/Romans knew a thing or two about vengeful deities getting involved with things.

ummhh ... will give this a think. There was a brief Macedonian AAR that tried this which I liked but didn't know enough of how Rome was working to make much sense of - another advantage to CK is the relatively simple game mechanics+rich character system makes for such a good set of narrative/historical AARs all over the place. I do hope that CK2 doesn't succumb to too much realism.

Their gods also got away with implausible stunts (like seducing people while disguised as a swan), that would make Harry sick with jealousy

bah ... this sort of stuff is already covered on the Mount & Blade forum :D

Ok, update later today. I've been a wee bit tardy for various reasons. One is paid work (in this case revisions, oh how I hate revisions and preparing reports for publication), the other is I am rather enjoying the game play behind my current HOI3 aar, another is I'm a bit stuck with this.

However, here's an alternative take on the last 3 centuries .... :cool:
 

loki100

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Raphael rewrites history ... or stumbles on the truth?

Raphael is feeling rather aggrieved after his latest performance review. He does not accept that all the problems with the Rurikovich dynasty are his fault. As he considers his appeal, he becomes more bitter, despite the nice breezes and gambolling animals and polite hum of conversation. Not least all is overshadowed by the tumult from Harry's refugee camp.

As he rereads the court records, he starts to develop a line of reasoning:

a) Harry is in fact besieging Heaven, having escaped from Hell

b) Harry has skillfully manipulated things so that he has infiltrated the legal system and has spies all over Heaven and Purgatory.

As he muses, he starts to fit together evidence [1]

as to the siege, well what more evidence is needed

And of course there is clear evidence that he has taken over the judicial system. In particular he has control over the preparation of the court papers.

Even though, Harry kept on claiming he was undermining the Rurikovichs but they seemed to do quite well as a result.

At least one skilled assassin got straight into heaven with no real checks. As did another who seemed to spend all his life falling out with his family and killing Mongols. Thinking about it, Harry did so much to convince us he really wanted this one and we fell for it.

He recently grabbed hold of the most competent king in 300 years

leaving us with all sorts of idiots who will be no use in a war.

And of course, just before Gabriel defected[2], a crazed killer was let loose across eternity.

Finally, just how true is it that Harry and Astarte have fallen out? Even Rapheal accepts this may be the weak spot in his argument but since they supposedly split they have been a lot more successful, especially with this sort of thing.

So is Raphael correct? Is Harry not the total incompetent who can't even light a barbecue in hell, but in fact very cunning and highly successful? Will all be revealed in the coming century of Rurikovich rule?


[1] Social constructionist psychology of course makes this form of behaviour exactly what is to be expected.
[2] this is the sort of fundamental error that arises from trying to fit outcomes to a preset argument
 

Enewald

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What if you give everything you can to your heir, play as him, kill your father and start fresh without BB?
 

Alfredian

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What if you give everything you can to your heir, play as him, kill your father and start fresh without BB?

This would normally seem a bit gamey, but killing your father to get the throne earlier is the sort of thing any Rurikovich could be proud of.
 

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This would normally seem a bit gamey, but killing your father to get the throne earlier is the sort of thing any Rurikovich could be proud of.

This AAR needs more patricide!
 

loki100

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What if you give everything you can to your heir, play as him, kill your father and start fresh without BB?

This would normally seem a bit gamey, but killing your father to get the throne earlier is the sort of thing any Rurikovich could be proud of.

This AAR needs more patricide!

well who am I to argue ... ok the deed is done and hopefully the update is done tomorrow. But, as ever with the Rurikovich's its not that straightforward:

a) to really please Stuvvesant, the new ruler is indeed King Bugra (or 'king bugger as he became known)
b) Boris' children were a 3 year old and 1 year old daughter so weren't eligible
c) that means the actual deed was the killing of your step-brother, so I guess if this was ancient rome Buggra escapes the sack in the Tiber?
d) this maybe the first Turkish Orthodox ruler of Russia

The good news I've restored King of the Rus to being the primary title.
 

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Please let Raphael know that I have some tin foil hats, if he needs them, to block out the government mind control rays. :p

All hail King Bugger! That is indeed a pleasing development... And he's a Turk sitting on the throne of Mother Russia... Even better. :)
 

loki100

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Please let Raphael know that I have some tin foil hats, if he needs them, to block out the government mind control rays. :p

All hail King Bugger! That is indeed a pleasing development... And he's a Turk sitting on the throne of Mother Russia... Even better. :)

Raphael gets somewhat more paranoid in the next episode ... and yes I'm looking for to King Bugra, if Naggy can make Bavaria into a model Turkish colony I can have a Turkish-Rus-Orthodox ruler.
 

loki100

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Boris III: 1361-1365 in which more things happen to and around Boris

Scene 1: Heaven, Raphael's apartment, with tinkling chimes, gingham curtains and all sorts of nice fiddly small bits of food.

He remains, for some reason, unhappy. Now he has uncovered Harry's cunning plot he is unsure whether to insist that no more Rurikovichs come to heaven or take them all. One option risks letting in even more spies, the other means building up Harry's collection of geniuses.

To make it worse, no one else believes him.

With a sigh he picks up the court papers and starts leafing through very unhappily. Even this is unclear ....



does it mean that Harry and Astarte are still feuding and killing off each others supporters or are they united to eliminate all the better influences on Boris?

He walks off towards the court muttering "infamy, infamy, they've all got in for me[1]"

Scene 2: The Court

Raphael is sat staring suspiciously at Harry and the two clerks, he has brought his very nicest flaming sword along for reassurance.

Boris is led in after the traditional pre-trial chat with Ukko.

Raphael starts. So Boris you weren't very popular were you?





Harry perks up at this. Oh I don't think thats fair, I mean he was only 16 when he came to throne



and he had some very good friends



This of course, worries Raphael deeply – does Harry want Boris for Hell or to lodge him in Heaven?

Well he fell out with Ioanno and was unfaithful





And his court were worried as all he did was to produce daughters



and he was known to have certain problems



Harry is looking at Raphael with growing interest

Yes but that ignores just how able he was when he had to go to war







Which of course does nothing to help Raphael's peace of mind

Boris tries to speak

Is this my trial?

Yes

Can I say something?

Harry, Raphael and all the clerks look at each other and shrug

Ok then

Why am I here? I mean I know I'm dead but it seems a bit unfair

Do you mean you really didn't know about the plot?

Plot?

Yes the famous Bugra-plot?



You mean that little b*gger was behind this.



Yes?

And if I'm dead is there some rule that says I can't carry on ruling my kingdom?

Raphael is feeling very tetchy by now.

Of course, we can't have dead people running kingdoms on earth

Boris looks triumphant

Hasn't stopped this bloke



Raphael is not impressed. Well we're here to decide where you go for eternity and I think ... I think ... I think

Harry looks very closely at Raphael and starts worrying about the size of the sword he's brought with him

I think ... Second circle of Hell, sins of lust.

Harry leaves musing to himself. Not had one of them for a while, lust heh, if thats the case it'll be easier to restock Hell than I ever expected.

(Will Raphael convince anyone else? If a mere affair is enough to be sent to Hell does Harry need to recruit some more demons? Bugra - now there's a name to reflect on)

[1] Not of course a line in the less well known Shakespeare version of Julius Ceaser