Talented and Ambitious Daughter, and event spawned heirs in 1.25

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Sfan

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Never in my countless games of EU4 have I had the privilege of getting a 6/6/6 ruler/heir before this week.


But first, there was Anabella.
w7ntLlk.jpg


And then, Agnes.
aurMT3c.jpg

3 games in 1.25, two 6/6/6 through Talented and Ambitious Daughter.

Granted, I spam disinherit more and more because every time I theorycraft it I realise how insane it is, but still.

Paradox has a passive of getting a bit confused between 2d4 and 1d6 when they roll special heirs, which lead to several bugs last year giving more or less monarch points than intended to event-spawned or special government heirs.

On top of everything, I started 2 Hungary game, and Janos had 15 and 17 monarch points the two times iirc. He too is scripted to be above average, but once again, this is very lucky to have such high stats.
And my current ruler as Hungary is from Child in the Reeds. I would not be surprised to get 15 MP from that event if that only happened once, but that starts to make a lot of VERY good event-spawned heirs.

So I seriously wonder: Am I insanely lucky (even if it's a shame those are in games where I'm not trying anything besides testing new mission trees and getting easy achievements), or was something changed in the code for the event-spawned heirs, which makes a 6/6/6 way more likely than before, and probably more likely than intended?

Has someone else noticed a rising trend of 15+ event-spawned heirs, especially 6/6/6?
 
Last edited:

Badesumofu

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Talented and Ambitious Daughter is insane. The event adds 3 to each category so it rolls 2d4+1 rather than 2d4-2. It's crazy, and if you look at the way the MTTH for it works, it means being semi-old and heirless is actually a really good thing. That the heir it spawns will be 13 makes it even better because you aren't risking a long regency. Child in the reeds is pretty decent as well.

You can get several ambitious daughters per game. I don't recall exactly when it changed, but it tipped the scales further towards ultra-aggressive disinheriting being the best strategy.
 

Trin Tragula

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In 1.24 gnivom discovered a hidden extra -1 that had been applied to all event generated heirs and rulers. It was then removed, ever since people have been getting more of these.
This event in particular is pretty heavily weighted so you’ll often get real good people from it :)
 

Sfan

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So this is the intended result, and the previous one was the unintended one. Oh well, it does not feel right, but if you say it's right, good for us I guess. More edge to the player who can disinherit to demand perfection via events.
 

Brynjar

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Really good rulers from that event has been fairly common at least since 1.24 (I thought it was 1.23), I tend to get at least one stat at 'only' 5 though, so two 6/6/6 are still kinda lucky.
 

Rabid

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This made me check the event files for these missions and it seems like most or all of the 'gain a female heir' events now automatically disqualify Muslims. As many of these events are extremely powerful and consistently give fantastic rulers this is quite a nasty little penalty, and certainly was not the case several versions ago where I specifically recall having this event as a Muslim on multiple occasions.
 

durbal

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The current 'content design' team is messing with the metagame balance too much by creating overly frequent and/or overpowered events. It doesn't help that most of them are total no-brainers too.

This has been a problem since Third Rome and it's something I've mentioned many times (influenza, professionalism events, trade good events/changes, etc.). I hope people start realizing it because it makes the game very, very difficult to design and work effectively when core gameplay systems are dwarfed by random events in terms of their influence over fundamental concepts like MP, money, diplomacy, etc. For example, it's pretty difficult to balance government types and religions -- and I mean balance so that it offers actual decisions for the player rather than no-brainers -- when monarchies get frequent events that generate super-rulers. It also has silly side effects like making Chance of New Heir bonuses a bad thing.
 
Last edited:

gia257

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Never in my countless games of EU4 have I had the privilege of getting a 6/6/6 ruler/heir before this week.


But first, there was Anabella.
w7ntLlk.jpg


And then, Agnes.
aurMT3c.jpg

3 games in 1.25, two 6/6/6 through Talented and Ambitious Daughter.

Granted, I spam disinherit more and more because every time I theorycraft it I realise how insane it is, but still.

Paradox has a passive of getting a bit confused between 2d4 and 1d6 when they roll special heirs, which lead to several bugs last year giving more or less monarch points than intended to event-spawned or special government heirs.

On top of everything, I started 2 Hungary game, and Janos had 15 and 17 monarch points the two times iirc. He too is scripted to be above average, but once again, this is very lucky to have such high stats.
And my current ruler as Hungary is from Child in the Reeds. I would not be surprised to get 15 MP from that event if that only happened once, but that starts to make a lot of VERY good event-spawned heirs.

So I seriously wonder: Am I insanely lucky (even if it's a shame those are in games where I'm not trying anything besides testing new mission trees and getting easy achievements), or was something changed in the code for the event-spawned heirs, which makes a 6/6/6 way more likely than before, and probably more likely than intended?

Has someone else noticed a rising trend of 15+ event-spawned heirs, especially 6/6/6?
reeds can roll trash (just rolled something like 0/2/4, daughter rolls high)
 

Trin Tragula

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The current 'content design' team is messing with the metagame balance too much by creating overly frequent and/or overpowered events.

This game has had the same content designer since art of war and that’s not really how game development works. ;) Balancing includes game design as well as QA and content design. Add to that post release feedback from you guys.
Event frequencies are actually set much rarer these days, back when I started a Mtth of 300 would be normal while today they are generally much higher and with extra stuff to prevent repetition. Still, random is random and we regularly tweak stuff long after adding it. We have a lot more events to go around these days.
As for the power of effects, there’s always a tricky line there between having events be inconsequential and too strong. Luckily continued patching allows us to keep on adjusting things.

This particular event was added in mid 2015. It has since been nerfed a few times (originally it was virtually guaranteed if you had an old king within days) and is now (along with all events that give heirs with extra stats) become better in the patch that accompanied CoC due to a code change.
It may well receive further tweaks in the future, much as the rest of the event corpus of this game. Among other things based on threads like these :)
 

Strangedane

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durbal

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This game has had the same content designer since art of war and that’s not really how game development works. ;) Balancing includes game design as well as QA and content design. Add to that post release feedback from you guys.
Event frequencies are actually set much rarer these days, back when I started a Mtth of 300 would be normal while today they are generally much higher and with extra stuff to prevent repetition. Still, random is random and we regularly tweak stuff long after adding it. We have a lot more events to go around these days.
As for the power of effects, there’s always a tricky line there between having events be inconsequential and too strong. Luckily continued patching allows us to keep on adjusting things.

This particular event was added in mid 2015. It has since been nerfed a few times (originally it was virtually guaranteed if you had an old king within days) and is now (along with all events that give heirs with extra stats) become better in the patch that accompanied CoC due to a code change.
It may well receive further tweaks in the future, much as the rest of the event corpus of this game. Among other things based on threads like these :)

Saying "that's not really how game development works" presupposes that all game development is the same and that the people you're talking to have never done any game development. I was referring to the whole content design team anyway, which has in fact changed.

I think you're being a bit disingenuous by referring to when this event was added when I'm referring to recent changes to existing events and the addition of some new ones (professionalism-related, trade goods, etc.). Maybe it's just a personal bias of mine, but I'd be willing to wager that events in EU4 now are significantly more powerful and influential than they were before, say, Third Rome -- regardless of whether that power and influence come from bug fixes, tweaks, or anything else. I think a lot of others would probably agree too.

Anyway, I appreciate the reply and continued efforts to improve the game. I just think in terms of design philosophy that content events should be more flavor than influence in aggregate and I see things swinging the opposite way.
 

Trin Tragula

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I was referring to the whole content design team anyway, which has in fact changed.

The content design team during the last 4 years have been me + people joining for limited time to help out with with extra content. Third Rome was just me, same for Cradle of Civilization. For Mandate of Heaven @Bratyn joined for the finishing part. @IsakMiller was also involved for a lot of Rights of Man.
Further back the story has been about the same (except for during Mare Nostrum, I was away for that one). Most recently for Rule Britannia in particular @Arheo and @neondt joined and the latter is likely going to stay on this project going forward.
The EU team is also in general one of the more consistent over time. Both our embedded QA @Imse Vimse and @StarNaN have been on for a long time, and DDRjake our new Game Director has been involved with the project first as QA and then Game Designer (a role that Groogy will fill going forward) before taking on his present role. I would go into programmers as well but it seems it is mostly design you're interested in the above cover all who are involved with that :)

So by all means give use feedback on whichever parts of the game you dislike but the differences you spot over time are not team changes. It is the same old people screwing up or, hopefully at least sometimes ( ;) ), doing stuff you enjoy.

As for it being disingenuous to follow the thread topic (and what you spent most of your post on) I am sorry if you feel that way please do let us know if there are any other events in particular you feel are in need of revision. The suggestions forum or bug forums are both great places for that :) It is through the feedback of its players that many of the things in this game get better over time :)
 

gia257

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roll a regular ruler, then clamp each value at [4,6] that way the minimum possible and most common daughter is 4 4 4, which is above average, but theres three shots at a stat higher than 4 and even the antichrist herself

now the lower the stats the higher the claim strenght id give her, (the antichrist with low, after all youll have the points to raise legitimacy) but thats up to you
 

Sfan

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This made me check the event files for these missions and it seems like most or all of the 'gain a female heir' events now automatically disqualify Muslims. As many of these events are extremely powerful and consistently give fantastic rulers this is quite a nasty little penalty, and certainly was not the case several versions ago where I specifically recall having this event as a Muslim on multiple occasions.
That may be why I only notice it now, I almost exclusively played as Muslim since CoC.
 

I_am_Nemo

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Spam disinherit being powerful is actually a good thing, imo, since it gives you something to actually spend prestige on when you're not spamming placate on vassals. Making prestige useful and sought after, rather than hitting 100 and staying there forever just by accident, is overall an improvement.

It might be good to look at how prestige is acquired, though, as currently the main source is via mass conquest. This means when you're on a roll eating everything in sight, you also have a ton of prestige, whereas when you're in a more difficult position - where being able to spam placate, disinherit for better heirs/PU chance, etc. would be the most impactful - you are least able to afford it.