Taking Mecca(Yeah Right!)

[Alexandre]

Originally posted by Demetrios


True, but Mecca could still be in even if they aren't, as Mecca is further north than all but the northernmost part of the northernmost of the Nubian kingdoms.

Agreed. I just ment that, if they include Nubia, then Mecca is in. If they don't include any of Nubia, then we don't know.

However, I sure hope that Mecca is in the game. What a wonderful target for a Crusade, and what a wonderful reason for a massive Muslim counter-jihad. It should just be damn difficult for a Christian dynasty to hold onto Mecca.

Alexandre

 

[unmerged(9384)]

Both Mecca and Medina were holy did the crusaders reach Medina???

 

[jacob-Lundgren]

can someone please answer my question already?
is there anywhere in here i can see a list of playable nations/countries or whatever you want them refered to as?

 

[Havard]

Originally posted by jacob-Lundgren
can someone please answer my question already?
is there anywhere in here i can see a list of playable nations/countries or whatever you want them refered to as?

We do not know for sure. It is supposed to be sovereign Christian dynasties in Europe. What definition "sovereign" cover is still not sure (if e.g. the large German Duchies will be playable).

For an attemt on compiling a list of these see this thread.

 

[unmerged(9384)]

Most of those are so standard nothing really new though I am looking foward to the Isle of Man . Most are large or uncertain

 

[unmerged(5605)]

Originally posted by Demetrios


Not in the least

I don't know what maps you are looking at, but by drawing a line just barely to the south of (in your words "roughly") the Egyptian border, you can get Mecca in. And when I say "just barely", I mean just that, it's something like 20 miles...

And by drawing the eastern boundary in the middle of the Urals, at 60 degrees east, you get not just a "sliver of Persia", but all but the easternmost section of present-day Iran. By going along the eastern edge of the Urals, you can get even more in...

I was using the EU2 map...that's where I was wrong

No, seriously, I was mostly working from memory, but I checked the southern border with a historical atlas of Africa. I knew Mecca was close to the line, but it still wasn't quite in.
As to the east, I admit I flubbed it. I didn't have any good maps of Russia to work on in my apartment, and I was making the (admittedly improper) assumption that the urals were only slightly to the east of the Caspian. As Russians are on the design team though, I should know that they will make the geography correct. Which means that, like in EU1, we will probably get a few provinces on the far side of the Caspian.

Anyway...I stand corrected, and I should have double checked with a geographic map online.

 

[Idiotboy]

Originally posted by Demetrios


The County of Portucale did definitely exist in 1066, and could be renamed the County of Portugal with little difficulty. Whether or not it will be playable is a different matter...

Perhaps not in the GC or equivalent in CK but it should be in later starting dates. From when was it considered to be a state of its own anyway?

 

[HVC]

Portugal became a country in 1128.

 

[Idiotboy]

Originally posted by HVC
Portugal became a country in 1128.

Thank you. Then it definately shouldn´t be in as the game starts 60 years or so earlier. I wonder if the game will support different starting dates and which ones it would be in that case.

 

[unmerged(10591)]

If this is a game about Crusading ...then Mecca must be in! I mean dear lord wouldnt the ultimate goal of the Crusaders be to sack the Holy Land of Islam? If the game is about Crusading the the big prize got to be there....for no endless stretch of sand shall stop Gods men from the Infidels!

 

[HVC]

Since Portugal had a major role in the conquest of Iberia I think the first scenario (released scenario) should start in 1128, or close thereafter (I admit it, my view is prejudiced , but bringing it up always increases the chance it could come true )

 

[Demetrios]

Originally posted by Idiotboy


Thank you. Then it definately shouldn´t be in as the game starts 60 years or so earlier. I wonder if the game will support different starting dates and which ones it would be in that case.

The Countly of Portugal was founded in 1093, by Raimundo of Burgundy, the son-in-law of Alfonso VI of Leon. Two years later it got its widely-recognized "official" start under Henriques of Burgundy and his wife Princess Taraisa of Leon. 1128 was only when their son Alfonso I came to the throne , not when the county was founded.

And before the final foundation of the County of Portugal, there had long been in existance (long before 1066) the Counties of Portucale and Coimbra. In 1093, the King of Leon basically combined the vacant County of Portucale and dethroned the Count of Coimbra to form the new county. There is no reason why they cannot be in the game, and as Portucale for all intents equals Portugal it doesn't seem unreasonable to have it playable at the beginning of the game...

 

[HVC]

True Portugal was a county before 1128, but not a true Sovereign nation until 1128. But hey anyway that Portugal become playable in the Grand Campaign without severely altering history is fine with me .

 

[Idiotboy]

Is that so? Well if one would like to start out as under another someones thumb and with small power perhaps so. However if the rules are to be interpreted a la EU I would say no. The starting positions are not to be influenced by what happens 20 years down the line. It could still be a geographic region of course and very likely to break of due to dynastic matters that are set but I would leave it at that.

 

[HVC]

Maybe there could be a event in which Leon (or whoever owns the land through the course of the game) on 1128 could grant sovereignty to Portucale making it Portugal. Upon Portugal being made a country you could get the choice of staying as the dynasty of Leon or becoming the dynasty of Portugal.

Just throwing out ideas

 

[Demetrios]

It all comes down to what "soverign dynasties" comes down to meaning. Should it mean only those dynasties that were fully independent, then, yes, Portugal will be unplayable at the start and the selection of playable countries will then be fairly limited. Should the game allow the player to choose some of the larger vassal states, such as the great German and French Duchies (as has been rumored), then Portugal, being a sizable vassal state, may indeed be playable.

 

[unmerged(485)]

Originally posted by Ivan the Mad
If this is a game about Crusading ...then Mecca must be in! I mean dear lord wouldnt the ultimate goal of the Crusaders be to sack the Holy Land of Islam? If the game is about Crusading the the big prize got to be there....for no endless stretch of sand shall stop Gods men from the Infidels!

The original objective was to re-take Jerusalem. Except for Reynald de Chatillon and his attempt on Mecca there were no serious plans to capture the city. Might have just been because it was not operationally feasable to do so, or maybe the Christians just didn't care. As long as only Christian states are playable there should be no great reason to have Mecca on the map.

However, after saying all that, it would be nice if it were on the map - especially if Muslim states can become playable.

 

[unmerged(530)]

Originally posted by BarristerBoy
Not to mention that the Hagia Sophia has nowhere near the same significane as Mecca does...

iwould disagree with that...

 

[unmerged(255)]

Originally posted by yannelis69


iwould disagree with that...

Care to explain why? Sure enough, Hagia Sophia was of immense symbolic importance to Orthodox Christianity but it doesn't really have any connection to Christ himself (nor the birth of Christianity) like Mecca does to Mohammad and Islam.

 

[unmerged(6160)]

I think the only thing like it in Christanity is Jerusalem, and in Judism is the ruins of the old temple of Jerusalem.