Taking land from the HRE

[unmerged(228984)]

I have yet to play a game where I do any fighting against the HRE, mainly due to their size and I'd rather not start anything that I probably wouldn't win. In my current game as Sicily I'm getting to the point where it's either expand in Spain and France, invade Africa, or fight the Byzantines or HRE. I currently have around 6000-7000 personal levies and 16K vassal and can afford around 6000-8000 mercs per month.

What is the best way to go about taking land from the HRE first? I know that fabricating claims in Italy and then taking dutchy titles is a good way, or getting claims through marriage and sons, but how do I go about fighting an army more than double my size? Is it best to wait until there is a succession war and then grab as many claims as I've been able to get before the war ends?

 

[unmerged(608717)]

Kill the Emperor, get easy pickings during the civil war that most likely will follow. You can of course fight the HRE army by just saving loads of money for mercenaries.

 

[Casiru]

HRE is elective so its rare for any of the German vassals to revolt. You can take some holdings in Italy fairly easily using that method.
The easiest way would have been to swear fealty when you were a duke and eat Italy from the inside, have had many successful games in the Italy region by fabricating claims until I can form the kingdom then Dejure claiming the rest, followed by declaring independence using the faction system so you get some Frank/Dutch/Bohemian guys helping you out (Read: creating road bumps for the HRE death stack.)

 

[unmerged(599111)]

Or you could swear fealty to the Byzantines, since Sicily is a de jure of the ERE. Plus it'll be much easier to get out of later on, since the Byzantine Empire is in a constant state of independence wars. Jump in, grab some land, and jump on the next bandwagon out.

 

[nyah]

Or you could swear fealty to the Byzantines, since Sicily is a de jure of the ERE. Plus it'll be much easier to get out of later on, since the Byzantine Empire is in a constant state of independence wars. Jump in, grab some land, and jump on the next bandwagon out.

With the ERE bumping up CA as soon as they can you might find yourself impotent as a byzzie vassal.

If you wait until the HRE is at civil war, which will happen at some point, then you'll stand a good chance of beating them. You just need to be quick. An alternative is to pick on the HRE's revolting vassals whenever you can. They'll be distracted by the war with their liege and you won't necessarily have to face the doomstacks. Again, speed is important as you need to win the war before the rebellion is crushed.

 

[Arcvalons]

create your own empire, Britannia or Hispania, to match the HRE

 

[Mauer]

It's also good to get alliances with France or any other big power nearby, and yes, wait for a huge civil war, save money for mercenaries. Personally I don't go for it until I'm big enough to hold on my own or until there's a huge independence revolt, since those tend to last longer due to slower warscore gain and you won't end up suddenly fighting a reunited HRE.

 

[unmerged(126586)]

I got lucky once and HRE went heritic, Pope declared a crusade for Italy and I (Denmark) nibbled away at the north as fast as I could. Ah, that was a great game.