tactical combat

[Diefledermas]

On thing I've noticed is there is a lot of discussion about overall national and alliance strategies but a lack of tactical discussions.

I was playing as Germany in a pick-up game last night against Russia.

I'm not going to name names because that's a little crude BUT the point is the player's tactics were rather bad. It got me to thinking this might be a good topic to improve overall community gameplay.

Rather than list ALL my ideas I'll start with some air unit ones

1. don't leave air forces undefended
2. don't move air forces closer to the front than neccesary
3. set fighters to intercept in strategic areas
4. have tac bombers attack 1 hour before land battle (and if no night tech, have the bombers hit at dawn and the land 1 hr later)

there's a lot more but that's a start

 

[Diefledermas]

here is my list of tactical suggestions:

LAND

1. exploit the mobility of armor and mechanized to outflank enemy positions. Avoid strong points such as entrenched infantry and built up fortress territories.

2. attempt to encircle enemy forces (especially slow moving divisions) leaving "tripwire" forces in newly occupied territories. Once the divisions are cut off from supply, attack from all sides.

3. be mindfull of attacking during daylight (unless you have superior night fighting technology and then attack at night)

4. never, ever - allow your forces to be cut off from supply. if you see a spearhead is going to be cut off, pull back

5. if attacking province from multiple entry points - coordinate the attack so all divisions arrive at the same time (note: this excludes having armor attack an hour before the main strike in some cases)

6. when creating armored army groups, having a few mechanized infantry divisions is usefull if the army group when fighting across rivers and non-plains province

AIR

1. set fighters to intercept missions 1 province behind the front (or on your coast). Intercept missions are critical for fighters or their effectiveness is really inconcequential

2. For appropraite nations, exploit strategic bombing. It really does hurt (as a German player and can attest to this). If you set bombers to "repeat" it will eliminate the micromanagement nightmare.

3. have tactical bombers attack 1 hour before the main land assualt. This softens up the defense nicely. It doesn't hurt to have a few fighters attached as "escorts" incase the enemy has fighters to intercept.

NAVY

My knowledge on naval tactic is limited since I tend to play Germany and my (repeated) failures at Sea Lion attest to my need to learn. However, I do have some experience in the U-boat department and coordinating with Italy in the Mediterranean, so...

1. (Germany) - don't look to your wolfpacks to confront the Royal Navy, you'll get massacred. Send your u-boats out in the atlantic and work on allied convoys. Try and find the heavily travelled routes that are outside of normal Allied fleet patrol areas. Keep your capital ships sheltered in the Baltic and/or eastern North Sea ports.

2. (Italy) - concentrate on the Mediterranean. If you can control the Strait of Gibraltar and close the Suez canal it help you immensely with Africa, the Middle East, and the Balkans.

Ok, I guess my naval suggestions are more strategy than tactics, like I said, I'm no naval expert.

 

[Minodrin]

Nice. Can we get some defensive suggestions too. If you have enough units, leaving a group (Preferably Mot/Mech Inf) behind the front line can be useful, as you can appear weaker then you are, and as he attacks, you reinforce and cause him a defeat. If you have tanks you might even try to use their speed to attack the province the attack originated from, before the defeated troops arrive/have low org.

Too bad I haven't been able to join a long term game yet (Longest some 2 years so far... ). Would this multi-layered defence be practical on other than a computer screen? In text that is...

 

[Prince Eugene]

Originally posted by Minodrin
Nice. Can we get some defensive suggestions too. If you have enough units, leaving a group (Preferably Mot/Mech Inf) behind the front line can be useful, as you can appear weaker then you are, and as he attacks, you reinforce and cause him a defeat. If you have tanks you might even try to use their speed to attack the province the attack originated from, before the defeated troops arrive/have low org.

Too bad I haven't been able to join a long term game yet (Longest some 2 years so far... ). Would this multi-layered defence be practical on other than a computer screen? In text that is...

If affordable it is nice to have a whole line of divisions a province or two back from your offensive line. Light tanks are nice for defense as they can saw up fast divisions in counterattacks (especially as Germany vs. USSR).

 

[unmerged(2833)]

Well, i think elastic defense is superior to static one

Although i don't really have that much experience with land warfare.

If i can say something about naval.

Save your ships. Especially Battleships and Cruisers to an extent. Repairing them costs nothing, and they take long time to build.

Naval warfare is very dependent on reconnaisance. If you don't know where enemy is, you won't be able to respond, if he doesn't know where you are, you can do operations which he could prevent otherwise.

So, use aircrafts, submarines, destroyers, etc, for reconnaisance duty. Even if they are sunk its no big loss, as they are cheap.

When you know where enemy is, and thus what he plans, you can gather your allies, concentrate your fleet and airforce (if you have any, heh) strike. Or, you can prepare land defenses in case he is going to attack, bring in reinforcements, or evacuate the area if odds are too high.

Either way, knowledge is paramount. On land, you pretty much know the enemy. On sea, its different.

Carriers rock, btw

 

[Diefledermas]

actually Maur, I'm going to agree/disagree with you. Know your enemy, but its the same on land

Ok, more tactics (I tried to get Big to contribute but he made some vague Bolshevik comments about trade secrets)

Recon

air - if you set aircraft to patrol mission you can fly out into sea zones adjacent to land and get a "blip" of what's out there. Obviously this can be done with ships as well but if you are outgunned on the high sea this a nice trick

Note to Mindorin : I tend to keep the bullk of my offensive forces behind the lines so that the enemy doesn't know where they are.

Hmm, defensive tactics...

Ok, here is one I employed in the last game

1. pick natural barriers such as mountains and rivers as choke points to "hold the line" - make the enemy fight where you want

2. if the enemy breaks thru your lines and you don't have a reserve force to "plug the hole", fall back. Leave a rear guard to allow the bulk of your forces to retreat or you're going to be run down. If you allow the enemy into you're soft core, you're dead

3. as stated before, set up fighters on intercept missions in high value zones.

4. use anti-tank brigade infantry in place of tanks for anti-armor defense. don't waste the mobility of tanks in static defense

 

[unmerged(2833)]

Originally posted by Diefledermas
actually Maur, I'm going to agree/disagree with you. Know your enemy, but its the same on land

Ok, more tactics (I tried to get Big to contribute but he made some vague Bolshevik comments about trade secrets)

No deals with the Bolsheviks, lol

I know recon is important on land too. Especially if one uses moblie reserve tactics

But on land you at least have a frontline. You see automatically enemy troops in adjacent provinces.

On sea, there is no such thing. If you leave things as they are, you can be surprised by amphibious landing in Scapa Flow or Kagoshima.

 

[Diefledermas]

ok Maur, I'll concede that.

One I will say is moving wolfpacks around in the Atlantic trying to find the prime convoy routes is a bizarre form of sonar.

move sub into sea zone
hang out
ping
no convoys
move sub to another sea zone
hang out
ping
"8 transports and 1 escort sunk"
eurika!
call in your u-boat brothers and watch the carnage

 

[cfeedback]

Speaking of Subs...

I'll add my $0.02 in tactical advice, which is to build subs, and lots of them. They are insanely cheap for the power they provide. Unless you're the UK, US, or Japan you can get by quite nicely with a navy consisting solely of your starting surface ships + a lot of advanced subs.

 

[unmerged(2833)]

Re: Speaking of Subs...

Originally posted by cfeedback
I'll add my $0.02 in tactical advice, which is to build subs, and lots of them. They are insanely cheap for the power they provide. Unless you're the UK, US, or Japan you can get by quite nicely with a navy consisting solely of your starting surface ships + a lot of advanced subs.

Well, subs indeed eat starting capital ships for a breakfast.

I hope (as i wasn't able to check it in mp) that ASW research will allow you to build destroyers, which are as cheap as subs. And that they fare well against them.

 

[unmerged(14101)]

Originally posted by Minodrin
Nice. Can we get some defensive suggestions too. If you have enough units, leaving a group (Preferably Mot/Mech Inf) behind the front line can be useful, as you can appear weaker then you are, and as he attacks, you reinforce and cause him a defeat. If you have tanks you might even try to use their speed to attack the province the attack originated from, before the defeated troops arrive/have low org.

Too bad I haven't been able to join a long term game yet (Longest some 2 years so far... ). Would this multi-layered defence be practical on other than a computer screen? In text that is...

Not for the faint of heart, but it is a great idea to go after the country of origin. You don't contain an armored breakthrough by trying to blunt the spearhead; rather you pinch it off at the neck.

 

[Mr.Bigglesworth]

Originally posted by Diefledermas
I tried to get Big to contribute but he made some vague Bolshevik comments about trade secrets

"Hence the skillful fighter puts himself into a position that makes defeat impossible and does not miss the moment for defeating the enemy. Thus it is that in war the victorious strategist only seeks battle after the victory has been won, whereas he who is destined to defeat first fights and afterwards looks for victory...So much for tactics."

~ Sun Tzu, The Art of War, Section IV: Tactics

 

[L G]

On defense
i like to hold the front lines with mostly infantry and mech infantry mixed in areas of high importance or just areas that could lead to a breakthrough. I tend to leave armored forces behind the line in about groups of 12 with a field marshal, so that when i identify a major attack i swoop in with him and it is usually devestating and ends quickly, but this is mostly just my experience as germany against the USSR hammering me down in Poland

 

[Diefledermas]

"Then, achieving victory in every battle is not absolute perfection: neutralizing an adversary's forces without battle is absolute perfection."

- Sun Tzu, Book 3 - Planning the Offensive

 

[WhiteHojo]

"With 6 you get Egg Roll"

~ Sun Tzu, The Waky Wok Drive Thru, Summer Job at 16

 

[Diefledermas]

"When the situation is obscure, attack"

Colonel General Henz Guderian

Combined Arms

I've noticed a lot of players seem to think airpower is the poor cousin in this game. Probably due to v1.02. Next, those who do use airpower tend to use med. tac bombers (I'm guessing because of their range)

Try using a combination of armor and dive bombers, even outnumbered, this is a devastating combination that will win battles that just panzers would lose. As always, I think a few mechanized infantry help balance out the attack.

 

[GLENN]

Secrets

We Germans never will reveal our tactics.
JA, was ist los um der Koph?

 

[cfeedback]

Originally posted by Diefledermas
"Then, achieving victory in every battle is not absolute perfection: neutralizing an adversary's forces without battle is absolute perfection."

- Sun Tzu, Book 3 - Planning the Offensive

While we're quoting Chinese tactics I'll toss this in...(think Mussolini in our current game)

Though fierce as tigers soldiers be,
Battles are won by strategy.
A hero comes; he gains renown,
Already destined for a crown.

-Romance of the Three Kingdoms

 

[Mr.Bigglesworth]

One thing you should always do is when you are attacking, leave some units in the province you are attacking from to defend from being encircled.

 

[Diefledermas]

A new tactical question

Which defense tactic is better?

Massing large groups of forces along a front but leaving "holes" in the front.

OR

occupying the entire front but with smaller forces

NOTE: This assumes you only have enough troops to do one or the other.