Syphilis should not be in the game

[GermanEmperor]

As stated the great pox, syphilis, should not be in the game (or at least in the way it currently is), and here is why:
(and this isn't only due to having multiple great kings die from it)

1. the First account of syphilis occurred in the late 15th century (1494 - 1495) when the French besieged Naples

2. there is evidence that Syphilis originated in the Americas. Because of this, it could not have been a disease in Europe for the span of CK2.

Now there is also some evidence found on skeletons in Europe before 1492 that shows signs of Syphilis like damage, but this evidence is fairly weak (laking peer review or showing other differences (such as transmission patterns) compared to Syphilis). Meanwhile there is evidence of skeletons in the Americas having Syphilis before Columbus arrived.

Because of these two points, Syphilis should not be in the game.

Now if we really want to keep it in the game, it could be a disease that only starts popping up after the Aztec invasion (or mid viking age if you really want it earlier). This could be in addition to or replacing the current Aztec disease.

It really isn't that big of a problem though. Even if nothing changes, I will still be playing CK2.

 

[hagagaga]

This thread again. Yes, they should convert "The Great Pox" to some other disease and only have syphilis upon the Sunset Invasion.

 

[thevmag]

I just think of it as the game's STD and leave it as that. You could rename it to any number of venereal diseases that existed in the era and be satisfied with it.

 

[nicochrish]

I just think of it as the game's STD and leave it as that. You could rename it to any number of venereal diseases that existed in the era and be satisfied with it.

No, you couldn't, really.
The symptoms and development (increased chance of lunatic etc) are quite specific of syphilis...
You could rewrite it completely, of course, but then there'd be fewer crazy people, and who would want that?

 

[Chairman Noob]

Yeah, it's ahistorical, but I think since 2012 it's kind of become part of the game and grown on people as the one tolerable ahistorical thing.

 

[thevmag]

No, you couldn't, really.
The symptoms and development (increased chance of lunatic etc) are quite specific of syphilis...
You could rewrite it completely, of course, but then there'd be fewer crazy people, and who would want that?

Lunacy is really the only thing that stands out. "Sexually transmitted disease that lowers health, fertility and attraction; can be cured by removing an eye" can broadly apply to so many things.

Though, depending on the severity of the symptoms of whatever generic STD we can pretend this is... having cauliflower crotch would drive me insane too

 

[nicochrish]

can be cured by removing an eye" can broadly apply to so many things.

True, true.

To be honest though, I wouldn't mind if they changed great pox, by making it appear later (or only after the Aztecs visit), but the fact that Lunacy (i.e. stage IV Syphilis) is even modelled has always struck me quite good research. Would be a pity if that effort were just suddenly gone

Besides, as we can be fairly certain by now that the Saint Lawrence region was frequented by basque whalers at least two centuries before columbus, taking it out if the game completely doesn't really appeal to me as a good solution.
Only the first epidemic maybe shouldn't start somewhere in the middle east

 

[SovereignGrave]

True, true.

To be honest though, I wouldn't mind if they changed great pox, by making it appear later (or only after the Aztecs visit), but the fact that Lunacy (i.e. stage IV Syphilis) is even modelled has always struck me quite good research. Would be a pity if that effort were just suddenly gone

Besides, as we can be fairly certain by now that the Saint Lawrence region was frequented by basque whalers at least two centuries before columbus, taking it out if the game completely doesn't really appeal to me as a good solution.
Only the first epidemic maybe shouldn't start somewhere in the middle east

Unless they changed something with Reaper's Due, there's a completely separate disease that's actually called syphilis that only pops in after the Aztecs invade. So the status of what exactly Great Pox is in-game is weird.

 

[StarSword]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_syphilis

I note there's a theory that an ancestral form of the syphilis bacterium traveled to the Americas with early First Peoples across the Bering land bridge, suggesting that the disease was actually present in both hemispheres from the get-go.

 

[GermanEmperor]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_syphilis

I note there's a theory that an ancestral form of the syphilis bacterium traveled to the Americas with early First Peoples across the Bering land bridge, suggesting that the disease was actually present in both hemispheres from the get-go.

I already mentioned the theory that it was in both hemispheres, but the evidence simply is not there, which is why syphilis should be removed.

 

[GermanEmperor]

Yeah, it's ahistorical, but I think since 2012 it's kind of become part of the game and grown on people as the one tolerable ahistorical thing.

I guess that ahistorical attributes are kind of a part of many paradox games (no time delay over the atlantic in EUIV for instance) it really ins't crucial for everything to be ahistorical.

This simply bothers me though as it is a ahistorical piece that could be changed (by simply the name and a few characteristics) without requiring a new game model.

 

[Barnham]

This thread again
The evidence suggesting that syphilis came from the new world is stronger than the evidence that it might have been afflicting Persian rulers in the 9th century, but I wasn't under the impression that there's a smoking gun. It's not like there's an event about potato farming Irish peasants or something else demonstrably anachronistic.

 

[Ezumiyr]

Unless they changed something with Reaper's Due, there's a completely separate disease that's actually called syphilis that only pops in after the Aztecs invade. So the status of what exactly Great Pox is in-game is weird.

It's still there.

 

[Marinaliteyears]

Also, weirdly enough, both 'The great pox' and 'The Aztec Disease' are somehow both syphilis, according to the game files and descriptions. Just.. somehow, different.

 

[hagagaga]

It's just Paradox being Paradox.

 

[PandaL]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_syphilis

I note there's a theory that an ancestral form of the syphilis bacterium traveled to the Americas with early First Peoples across the Bering land bridge, suggesting that the disease was actually present in both hemispheres from the get-go.

However, that theory also mentions that Great Pox were treated as Leprosy before the 1494 outbreak. Great Pox thus becomes redundant with both Leprosy and Aztec Disease already presented in game.

 

[Lord Canterbury]

Presumably it would be pretty easy for those who care to mod this out?

 

[VoodooEconomist]

[Insert clever joke about the constant return of STD-related threads here]

 

[King Anund]

The question is: why it is not transmitted by tumbling a syphilitic character or by having a syphilitic lover?

 

[thevmag]

The question is: why it is not transmitted by tumbling a syphilitic character or by having a syphilitic lover?

You mean it's not?! I've been dumping scores of syphilitic concubines for nothing

On top of random-faithful-wives/concubines-randomly-become-syphilitic (I'm assuming that a full harem is why half my rulers have been lifelong members of the syph), I have had one son born with syphilis straight out of the womb. So, there's that person-to-person transmission.