Synthetic Rebellions exist to Punish Spiritualist

[Ryika]

including unlocking the shroud. Only materialists have problem with that.

But Spiritualists have an easier time with it.

If you're not spiritualist, your chance to find Psionic Theory is reduced by 50%. If you're Fanatic Spiritualist, it's multiplied by 2 instead. So Fanatic Spiritualists are 4 times as likely to find it than non-spiritualist empires if everything else is the same.

Most other Psionics-category techs work similar - each having x2 and x3 modifiers to spiritualists and their fanatic variants.

 

[Archael90]

But you know that changing this 0,5 to 2% chance changes very little if anything.
Beside. This doesnt matter what matter is that only materialists have hard time going psi ascension, not that its anything uniqe for spiritualists.

 

[SaintD]

Phobes should be proud of their technology, if they were afraid they should be banned mechanically from using them in the first place and adequate alternatives should also be available

Xenophobes especially would PREFER robots heavily as an alternative to allowing disgusting xeno trash through their borders.

 

[grommile]

Xenophobes especially would PREFER robots heavily as an alternative to allowing disgusting xeno trash through their borders.

Robots, for sure. (There are some interesting things about this topic in real life, but that's OOB for this forum.)

Synths could be argued either way.

 

[Xenith_Shadow]

If i remember correctly at one point only materialist could give synthetics full rights, which meant every single empires that wasn't materialist would be at risk of a robot uprising if they didnt synthetically ascend.
A fix for robot uprising is for it to trigger like it used to where robotic pop's spawn assault armies and capture planents, roboting armies swap teams and all/50% of ships that that sentient computer onboard flip to the rebelions faction. Main point if you dont build synths or use the sentient combat computers you cant randomly have an uprising.

So this doesn't fix the robot uprising problem but i think there should a slave uprising equivalent of the robot uprising where slaves on a worlds rising up to sieze control of the planent and proclaim independence.

In relation to the xenophobe case if the robot pops are enslave that should also be able to trigger a robot rebellion.
Another option would be to have robot uprising cause nearby robot to also rebel as was the case when the robot uprising was a crisis. So even if you have given you robots full rights a nearby uprsing would still be able to trigger your robots to rebel.

You could even have robot uprising specifically for synth asscended empires where one of your synth leader decides they should be incharge and makes them selves a bunch more bodies and becomes a machines intelegence and lead a rebeling to take over the empire.

 

[CountAccountant]

Spiritualists can do that, though. Allowing robots is -5% faction happiness - hardly relevant compared to the boost from robots.

The bigger issue is the massive attraction modifier towards materialist and also away from spiritualist for any pop on a planet with at least one robot.

Is it worth it? Maybe, but I don't think it's a slam dunk answer the way an independent -5% happiness modifier would be. It also feels bad to be roleplaying a fanatic spiritualist theocracy and then literally covert your pops away from spiritualism because you need pop growth.

I've side stepped the issue by going biological ascension in my recent spiritualist runs. Psionic ascension empires are just stuck in an unfortunate place in the current patch.

 

[Archael90]

Imagine roleplay of spiritualists empire, that believes every sentient organism in the universe has a soul, or divine spark, or whatever you want to call it. It does not matter if brain that creates sentience is biological, positronic, or pure energy - sentience means divine. Isnt this a SPIRITUALIST belief? Yet we are not allowed to play that. Yes i can pretend that because of divine nature of soul, i should not create sentient robots. Yet all flavour texts, ansewrs etc. force me to hate robots, and synth, and immersion breakes.
Only non-spiritualist empires can play this SPIRITUALIST roleplay, even materialists can roleplay this way... which is weird.

 

[DeanTheDull]

The bigger issue is the massive attraction modifier towards materialist and also away from spiritualist for any pop on a planet with at least one robot.

Is it worth it? Maybe, but I don't think it's a slam dunk answer the way an independent -5% happiness modifier would be. It also feels bad to be roleplaying a fanatic spiritualist theocracy and then literally covert your pops away from spiritualism because you need pop growth.

I've side stepped the issue by going biological ascension in my recent spiritualist runs. Psionic ascension empires are just stuck in an unfortunate place in the current patch.

There's arguments against spritualists using robots, but ethics attraction really isn't really one of them. Having a robot on a planet is a 1.25 multiplier for mechanist ethics, but going psionic ascension alone gives over 5x.

Spiritualist ethics has the most and highest reachable ethics attraction in the game, it's so strong it can overpower xenophile.

 

[InvisibleBison]

Isnt this a SPIRITUALIST belief?

No, it's not a spiritualist belief. Spiritualists believe that minds create reality, not the other way around. Thus, manipulating bits of reality can't create a mind, and so robots cannot truly be conscious, no matter how clever they appear to be.

 

[GOLANX]

Good points. It also makes dangerous technologies actually dangerous

I have no issue with dangerous techs, I wish we could have more, I have an issue with it only being dangerous to spiritualists, and if they do pick it they are almost guaranteed to face a event that they can't stop, that isn't fun and doesn't make the game better. I think if there is a tech that is dangerous to spiritualists only then there should be other valuable technologies that are dangerous to other ethics. Synthetic Rebellions single out spiritualist Empires that's the problem.

Keep in mind this is a LARGE part of the reason we will never see machine cosmetics added to Synthetic Dawn. Last QA the devs basically said they weren't going to add machine cosmetics to Synthetic Dawn because they thought Synthetic Rebellions were better.

 

[prismaticmarcus]

I think if there is a tech that is dangerous to spiritualists only then there should be other valuable technologies that are dangerous to other ethics. Synthetic Rebellions single out spiritualist Empires that's the problem.

that's a fair call

 

[Archael90]

No, it's not a spiritualist belief. Spiritualists believe that minds create reality, not the other way around. Thus, manipulating bits of reality can't create a mind, and so robots cannot truly be conscious, no matter how clever they appear to be.

I have to agree with You, but at the same time, You are disagreeing with me for some reason "
Where have You read that anyone creates mind? Mind is. Period.
My point was that that mind is over matter. It does not matter in which body this mind exist.
Nobody said that anything is creating mind when creating positronic brain.
Mind is controlling reality and IS NOT limitted by matter, each brain can have mind no matter if biological, positronic or pure energy.

 

[prismaticmarcus]

I have to agree with You, but at the same time, You are disagreeing with me for some reason "
Where have You read that anyone creates mind? Mind is. Period.
My point was that that mind is over matter. It does not matter in which body this mind exist.
Nobody said that anything is creating mind when creating positronic brain.
Mind is controlling reality and IS NOT limitted by matter, each brain can have mind no matter if biological, positronic or pure energy.

is this on the wiki?

 

[Archael90]

is this on the wiki?

No. Its not...
But why this matters?
I have strange feeling that You dont understand what im talking about.

 

[prismaticmarcus]

No. Its not...
But why this matters?
I have strange feeling that You dont understand what im talking about.

i'm just reminded of the current Vic3 controversy where people are trying to insist that the game conforms to what they think it should look like.

 

[InvisibleBison]

each brain can have mind no matter if biological, positronic or pure energy.

This is where your error is (according to spiritualists, anyway). Spiritualists believe that minds are independent of matter, and that simply rearranging matter is insufficient to create a truly conscious mind. Thus, a positronic brain cannot have a mind associated with it, because it's simply a lump of crude matter, albeit one that can behave in a fairly sophisticated fashion. Spiritualists essentially believe that synths and AIs are philosophical zombies.

 

[Cry_Havok]

This is where your error is (according to spiritualists, anyway). Spiritualists believe that minds are independent of matter, and that simply rearranging matter is insufficient to create a truly conscious mind. Thus, a positronic brain cannot have a mind associated with it, because it's simply a lump of crude matter, albeit one that can behave in a fairly sophisticated fashion. Spiritualists essentially believe that synths and AIs are philosophical zombies.

Which is still a weird and hyper-specific idea out of all possible religions

 

[Archael90]

This is where your error is (according to spiritualists, anyway). Spiritualists believe that minds are independent of matter, and that simply rearranging matter is insufficient to create a truly conscious mind. Thus, a positronic brain cannot have a mind associated with it, because it's simply a lump of crude matter, albeit one that can behave in a fairly sophisticated fashion. Spiritualists essentially believe that synths and AIs are philosophical zombies.

STELLARIS SPIRITUALISM
And this is the very main point here
STELLARIS SPIRITUALISM is nowhere near SPIRITUALISM, and i have said in my post very clearly what im talking about. STELLARIS SPIRITUALISM has no sens, is underpowered, and provide very little immersion, what i have said in my post and shown an exaple SPIRITUALIST empire, that is not currently available due to limitations of STELLARIS SPIRITUALISM.

 

[prismaticmarcus]

STELLARIS SPIRITUALISM
And this is the very main point here
STELLARIS SPIRITUALISM is nowhere near SPIRITUALISM, and i have said in my post very clearly what im talking about. STELLARIS SPIRITUALISM has no sens, is underpowered, and provide very little immersion, what i have said in my post and shown an exaple SPIRITUALIST empire, that is not currently available due to limitations of STELLARIS SPIRITUALISM.

ok. glad that's sorted. no need to yell, btw.

 

[Archael90]

ok. glad that's sorted. no need to yell, btw.

Im not yelling, im marking important words, that have to be recognized xD