Synthetic Evolution

[Kingsleydale]

Any idea why the harmony assession tree isn't swapped to something more relevant once an empire has become Synthetic? I know this topic has probably been discussed before, but I am wondering if there are any planned changes in Le Guin that would fix it.

 

[GloatingSwine]

The only thing in Harmony that doesn't necessarily still work for fully synthetic empires is leader lifespan.

And even that might still work if you have other non-assimilated species with leader rights.

 

[Kingsleydale]

Okay, thanks.

 

[Sigma 582]

The only thing in Harmony that doesn't necessarily still work for fully synthetic empires is leader lifespan.

and pop growth, unless you keep some meatbags around

 

[Siri]

and pop growth, unless you keep some meatbags around

Paradise Dome also loses some usefulness since the food is of questionable use at that point.
I don't think it would be out of line to have Harmony change after you ascend. Sure, it's not a huge deal but it would be a nice little improvement.

 

[Sigma 582]

Paradise Dome also loses some usefulness since the food is of questionable use at that point.
I don't think it would be out of line to have Harmony change after you ascend. Sure, it's not a huge deal but it would be a nice little improvement.

you can sell that food
but yes, paradise dome becomes a bit underwhelming after ascension too.
so it makes 3/6 effects losing their value which indeed prompts for a swap.

 

[Siri]

you can sell that food
but yes, paradise dome becomes a bit underwhelming after ascension too.
so it makes 3/6 effects losing their value which indeed prompts for a swap.

Oh absolutely, that's why I called it questionable rather than useless. Sometimes food has very good value in trades if you're on the lookout for good deals or just to make friends.

 

[Surimi]

I don't think the game currently supports swapping traditions mid-game.

I imagine it will be changed at some point, but in the mean time it's not exactly the highest profile issue, particularly since in 2.2 synthetic empires will still be able to trade food on the market even if they can't use it.

 

[Siri]

I don't think the game currently supports swapping traditions mid-game.

It does. For instance, if you start out as an Inwards Perfectionist and drop that civic you will go from their tradition swaps back to the generic ones.

 

[Surimi]

It does. For instance, if you start out as an Inwards Perfectionist and drop that civic you will go from their tradition swaps back to the generic ones.

Oh, that's interesting.

Last time I checked, it didn't do that.

 

[Kingsleydale]

It does. For instance, if you start out as an Inwards Perfectionist and drop that civic you will go from their tradition swaps back to the generic ones.

Yeah I believe that happened once after I stopped being an inward perfectionist.

 

[Twogs]

Paradise dome isn't in harmony anymore IIRC.

But it is centered a lot around biological pops so yeah it might be a bit weak for completely robotic empires.

 

[Neocv]

If the Dev didn't changed the effects of the shown traditions, the tradition will be slightly more useful to Synthetics, since will go down from 3 to 2 non useful traditions.
The opener that decreases food consumption and the increased leader lifespan.

 

[Mastikator]

To be fair the Diplomacy tree also has a useless pick for Synths. The +10% habitability isn't doing much when you have 100% habitability everywhere.

The massive bonus to everything Synths get is what made up for this dead weight (and the only reason they are so good at all).

 

[Twogs]

Diplomacy doesn't have that one anymore. It's now all about diplomacy and trade.

 

[Pootino]

I'm more concerned about the fact that once the project is over your entire specie is turned into robot with no traits and since in 2.2 the normal synth trait is no longer present you will have an entire specie with no bonus of any kind until you robomod them.

 

[Mastikator]

I'm more concerned about the fact that once the project is over your entire specie is turned into robot with no traits and since in 2.2 the normal synth trait is no longer present you will have an entire specie with no bonus of any kind until you robomod them.

TBH even if you robo-mod them it's still only a 10% bonus here and 10% bonus there. In 2.1 Synths can get 30% to research, minerals, and 35% unity if you make em luxurious. Which is absolutely huge because it doesn't have weaknesses, it's just all around powerful.
A free synth with miner trait is still objectively worse than a free industrious pop. 2.2 nerfs synthetic evolution into the dirt.

 

[Pootino]

TBH even if you robo-mod them it's still only a 10% bonus here and 10% bonus there. In 2.1 Synths can get 30% to research, minerals, and 35% unity if you make em luxurious. Which is absolutely huge because it doesn't have weaknesses, it's just all around powerful.
A free synth with miner trait is still objectively worse than a free industrious pop. 2.2 nerfs synthetic evolution into the dirt.

Not to mention the fact that synths now take 500 minerals and 50 month to build without any bonus and 400 minerals and 26 months at max speed.

btw robot production traits now give +15% and they have a special trait that gives them +5% in everything, but it costs 3 points

 

[Pointyearedgit]

Not to mention the fact that synths now take 500 minerals and 50 month to build without any bonus and 400 minerals and 26 months at max speed.

btw robot production traits now give +15% and they have a special trait that gives them +5% in everything, but it costs 3 points

Just to clarify, these are the robot traits that cost points, not an across the board 15% because they are robots?

 

[Pointyearedgit]

The only thing in Harmony that doesn't necessarily still work for fully synthetic empires is leader lifespan.

And even that might still work if you have other non-assimilated species with leader rights.

This is consistent with what I've seen, also the -10% food is only really good for remaining meatbags.

and pop growth, unless you keep some meatbags around

Paradise Dome also loses some usefulness since the food is of questionable use at that point.
I don't think it would be out of line to have Harmony change after you ascend. Sure, it's not a huge deal but it would be a nice little improvement.

you can sell that food
but yes, paradise dome becomes a bit underwhelming after ascension too.
so it makes 3/6 effects losing their value which indeed prompts for a swap.

Yea we have a mixup with the new bonuses, the other 4 bonuses (not mentioned above) are:

-10% amenities used (replaces paradise dome, still useful for non-gestalt robots)

-50% time to swap strata (still useful for non-gestalt robots)

Defensive wars build speed and home territory advantage is unchanged, and still useful

+5% stability from the finisher (also, still useful for non-gestalt robots)

Final numbers aren't final, but that was what I recall from the dev diary.