• Crusader Kings III Available Now!

    The realm rejoices as Paradox Interactive announces the launch of Crusader Kings III, the latest entry in the publisher’s grand strategy role-playing game franchise. Advisors may now jockey for positions of influence and adversaries should save their schemes for another day, because on this day Crusader Kings III can be purchased on Steam, the Paradox Store, and other major online retailers.


    Real Strategy Requires Cunning

ekorovin

Lt. General
6 Badges
Jun 30, 2013
1.537
29
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
My suggestions for Lebanon from the main thread:

1) Druzes sholdn't exist until 1016, and when they emerge, they should emerge in Cairo, maybe. The strangest thing happens now, in character select screen I can see provinces of Samarra, Axum and Alexandria being Druze, but not in actual game, so that's OK

1 upd) Would also suggest that Druzes can be made in a starts date later than 1020 (they also can have zero convertion rate, due to prohibition of proselythism. Alawites would make better Shia heresy.

2) Maronites should be Catholic after 1182, and before that they may or may not be Monothelites, noone's sure, modern Maronites state that they always were Catholic.

3) not specifically Levantine, but more Islamic thing - Yzidism is no way Islamic heresy, should be different religion and have crazy maluses for relations with Muslims, being seen as devil-worshippers and all that jazz.

4) For Arabia whould I would suggest inclution of Qarmatians as Shia heresy, they should emerge around 899 in Arabia. One can dream, that if they capture Mecca they can have a desicion to desacrate it and ransom Black stone of Qaaba for a lot of gold.
 
Last edited:

theKing1988

SWMH Autokrator
53 Badges
Jan 13, 2010
4.402
2.598
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Knights of Honor
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Rome Gold
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Deus Vult
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Cities: Skylines
My suggestions for Lebanon from the main thread:

1) Druzes sholdn't exist until 1016, and when they emerge, they should emerge in Cairo, maybe. The strangest thing happens now, in character select screen I can see provinces of Samarra, Axum and Alexandria being Druze, but not in actual game, so that's OK

1 upd) Would also suggest that Druzes can be made in a starts date later than 1020 (they also can have zero convertion rate, due to prohibition of proselythism. Alawites would make better Shia heresy.

2) Maronites should be Catholic after 1182, and before that they may or may not be Monothelites, noone's sure, modern Maronites state that they always were Catholic.

3) not specifically Levantine, but more Islamic thing - Yzidism is no way Islamic heresy, should be different religion and have crazy maluses for relations with Muslims, being seen as devil-worshippers and all that jazz.

4) For Arabia whould I would suggest inclution of Qarmatians as Shia heresy, they should emerge around 899 in Arabia. One can dream, that if they capture Mecca they can have a desicion to desacrate it and ransom Black stone of Qaaba for a lot of gold.
1) That's a Project Balance thing. They are not Druze in SWMH. Neither in the character select screen or when you enter the game.

1upd) Changing the conversion rates sounds a bit beyond the scope of SWMH. You would have to get PB or VIET to include such a thing i think.

3) Again, changing the opinion maluses is perhaps a bit beyond the scope of SWMH.
 
Last edited:

cybrxkhan

Going to Scarborough Fair
48 Badges
Jul 14, 2012
7.750
2.101
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Stellaris
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • 500k Club
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
In VIET the Alawites and Qarmatians are added as heresies to Shia, and the Yazidi are their own religion in the Muslim religion group (with plans for motor flavor and stuff for them when I recover and "return").



Anyhow, as to suggestions - any plans to add a south Arabian/Yemeni/Omani culture, to represent the cosmopolitan, commercial, urbanite groups there? From what I know there was tension between those city dwellers and the more nomadic folk, such as in Oman for instance.
 

elvain

Africa & MidEast cartographer
33 Badges
Jan 20, 2004
4.690
2.919
www.rome.webz.cz
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Cities: Skylines
  • 500k Club
  • Rome Gold
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II
In VIET the Alawites and Qarmatians are added as heresies to Shia, and the Yazidi are their own religion in the Muslim religion group (with plans for motor flavor and stuff for them when I recover and "return").



Anyhow, as to suggestions - any plans to add a south Arabian/Yemeni/Omani culture, to represent the cosmopolitan, commercial, urbanite groups there? From what I know there was tension between those city dwellers and the more nomadic folk, such as in Oman for instance.
1) that's great.
Maybe, for easier VIET+SWMH compatibility I will put a notes to province history files for those which should have these heresies?
btw, it is a Maghreb stuff, but do you plan to add also Salihi shiite heresy? I know it may not be worth it for 2 dynasties in 867 start, but it would greatly improve the religious mess of that religion :)

2) yes, I am considering this. Especially after I introduced the division between nomadic and dwelling cultures it would be very inapropriate to have nomads in Yemen.
 

cybrxkhan

Going to Scarborough Fair
48 Badges
Jul 14, 2012
7.750
2.101
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Stellaris
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • 500k Club
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
1. Yes, that would help greatly. I can PM you a list of current religions and heresies in VIET fir the SWMH team's reference. And The Salihists are currently one of the Sunni heresies in VIET I believe.

2. Sounds good.
 

elvain

Africa & MidEast cartographer
33 Badges
Jan 20, 2004
4.690
2.919
www.rome.webz.cz
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Cities: Skylines
  • 500k Club
  • Rome Gold
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II
Great!
 

ekorovin

Lt. General
6 Badges
Jun 30, 2013
1.537
29
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
Are there any plans to introduce Yemeni Jews? They are quite distinct even in modern Israel.
 

theKing1988

SWMH Autokrator
53 Badges
Jan 13, 2010
4.402
2.598
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Knights of Honor
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Rome Gold
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Deus Vult
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Cities: Skylines
In SWMH? I doubt it. They don't form the majority in any of the provinces and making sure that they are given the same mechanic to make them appear like the Sephardis and the Ashkenazis would be outside of SWMH's scope i think. VIET has them already though, as far as i know :unsure:

ETA: But i might be wrong :p There is a lot of questions today that Aasmul or Elvain should have seen/answered instead of me :D
 
Last edited:

cybrxkhan

Going to Scarborough Fair
48 Badges
Jul 14, 2012
7.750
2.101
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Stellaris
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • 500k Club
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
@swmh team:
Speaking of Yemeni Jews and such, I've already added them and othe Jewish groups - along with the events necessary to spawn them in the right places in VIET. I know you guys already have a bunch of Jewish cultures, so it'll just be a matter of tweaking the code a bit on my part if you're interested.
Edit: ninja'd apparently. Anyhow yeah I have Yemeni Jews in VIET.
 

theKing1988

SWMH Autokrator
53 Badges
Jan 13, 2010
4.402
2.598
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Knights of Honor
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Rome Gold
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Deus Vult
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Cities: Skylines
Don't forget the idea yet before one from the team give you an answer Cybr. I'm just a helper, remember? ;)
 

Imad Al Din

Private
58 Badges
Apr 19, 2013
16
16
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Divine Wind
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
The Hidjaz and major cities should be Mashriqi, and all other provinces in the peninsula should be Bedouin. "Bedouins" are nomads, desert wanderers, who don't live in cities. (well now they do cuz oil) Hidjaz has always been culturally different to the mainland of Arabia, its more aristocratic and less Nomad like. Also Yemen is the same thing, although only major cities like Aden and Sanaa should be Mashriqi. (also first time replying to a post so dont hurt me)

Oh and one more thing, Ghutah should really really be Dimashq. No one ever refers to Damascus or even the region of the city as Ghutah, the Ghutah is the farmland on the outskirts of the city. I feel like one of the most important cities of the Arab and Islamic world shouldn't be called by the farmland around it.
 

theKing1988

SWMH Autokrator
53 Badges
Jan 13, 2010
4.402
2.598
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Knights of Honor
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Rome Gold
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Deus Vult
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Cities: Skylines
The Hidjaz and major cities should be Mashriqi, and all other provinces in the peninsula should be Bedouin. "Bedouins" are nomads, desert wanderers, who don't live in cities. (well now they do cuz oil) Hidjaz has always been culturally different to the mainland of Arabia, its more aristocratic and less Nomad like. Also Yemen is the same thing, although only major cities like Aden and Sanaa should be Mashriqi. (also first time replying to a post so dont hurt me)

Oh and one more thing, Ghutah should really really be Dimashq. No one ever refers to Damascus or even the region of the city as Ghutah, the Ghutah is the farmland on the outskirts of the city. I feel like one of the most important cities of the Arab and Islamic world shouldn't be called by the farmland around it.
Mashriqi is more of a geographical term, which i actually think is a bit too big already.

And as far as i know, Creating such a big Umbrella culture for the Arabs are not being planned. And it would not be all that accurate either. From what i know about Arab medieval history is that Arab culture acted as the veneer at the top that attempted to keep things together, but that even Arab language and to a certain extent also Arab culture had rather big regional variations between "Iraqi Arabs", Egyptians, Syrians and Arabians. So if Elvain decide to include the Arabians in the Mashriqi i think that he should break of at least the Syrians so as to not lose these regional variations.

He is planning on introducing a distinction between urban Arabs and Nomad Bedouins in Arabia though, to get back on topic.
 
Last edited:

elvain

Africa & MidEast cartographer
33 Badges
Jan 20, 2004
4.690
2.919
www.rome.webz.cz
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Cities: Skylines
  • 500k Club
  • Rome Gold
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II
The Hidjaz and major cities should be Mashriqi, and all other provinces in the peninsula should be Bedouin. "Bedouins" are nomads, desert wanderers, who don't live in cities. (well now they do cuz oil) Hidjaz has always been culturally different to the mainland of Arabia, its more aristocratic and less Nomad like. Also Yemen is the same thing, although only major cities like Aden and Sanaa should be Mashriqi. (also first time replying to a post so dont hurt me)

Oh and one more thing, Ghutah should really really be Dimashq. No one ever refers to Damascus or even the region of the city as Ghutah, the Ghutah is the farmland on the outskirts of the city. I feel like one of the most important cities of the Arab and Islamic world shouldn't be called by the farmland around it.
Mashriqi is more of a geographical term, which does actually exclude Arabia as far as i can see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mashriq

And as far as i know, Creating such a big Umbrella culture for the Arabs are not being planned. And it would not be all that accurate either. From what i know about Arab medieval history is that Arab culture acted as the veneer at the top that attempted to keep things together, but that even Arab language and to a certain extent also Arab culture had rather big regional variations between "Iraqi Arabs", Egyptians, Syrians and Arabians. So if Elvain decide to include the Arabians in the Mashriqi i think that he should break of at least the Syrians so as to not lose these regional variations.

He is planning on introducing a distinction between urban Arabs and Nomad Bedouins.
Well, there already is Mashriqi culture (IIRC), and while it is rather broad definition, it exactly fits to the scheme I have about "greater Arabia", that means Arabia and Mesopotamia.
The concept is not perfectly clear now, but I'd like to have Levantine in Syria and Palestine, Mashriqi to be Arab dwellers in Iraq and Arabia (Hijaz), Yemeni to represent the highland Yemen people and the rest, the nomadic tribes to fall under Bedouin/Badawi. (TBH I'm not sure if Levantine and Masriqi aren't actually the same and if they are, it shouldn't mind IMO, but I'm open to suggestions).
I really want to make clear distinction between city/dwelling Arabs and Bedouins as their military power as well as many other things differed.

concerning Dimashq vs. Ghouta issue - that's rather valid point.
 

Gwax23

Colonel
57 Badges
Oct 9, 2010
1.030
5
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Supreme Ruler 2020
  • Semper Fi
  • Rome Gold
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Iron Cross
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For The Glory
  • Divine Wind
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Victoria 2
  • 500k Club
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
Instead of Yemeni Jews add Mizrahi Jews. If we start adding country specific jewish groups youll end up with dozens.
 

Imad Al Din

Private
58 Badges
Apr 19, 2013
16
16
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Divine Wind
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
Levantine is just a European term for the Arabs around Lebanon, Antioch, and Palestine. Mashriqi is an Arabic term for the Arabs in the East. In my honest opinion I feel like the "Arab" aspect should really be stressed. Especially at this time Arabs from Qurtubah all the way to Samarqand (not Arab but had Arab family's living there) had a much more unified dialect and were basically the same cultural group. Now the way this can be stressed is by not adding a "Syrian" group or an "Iraqi" group but by using terms us Arabs use to denote people from these areas. What im trying to say is that at that time you could not tell the difference between an Iraqi Sultan, a Shami Sultan, or even an Andalusi Sultan. All of these Arabs came from the peninsula only 2 or 3 generations ago. Also to be clear they did look different ethnically, but linguistically they are far similar than is shown in game.
 

theKing1988

SWMH Autokrator
53 Badges
Jan 13, 2010
4.402
2.598
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Knights of Honor
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Rome Gold
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Deus Vult
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Cities: Skylines
Well, there already is Mashriqi culture (IIRC), and while it is rather broad definition, it exactly fits to the scheme I have about "greater Arabia", that means Arabia and Mesopotamia.
The concept is not perfectly clear now, but I'd like to have Levantine in Syria and Palestine, Mashriqi to be Arab dwellers in Iraq and Arabia (Hijaz), Yemeni to represent the highland Yemen people and the rest, the nomadic tribes to fall under Bedouin/Badawi. (TBH I'm not sure if Levantine and Masriqi aren't actually the same and if they are, it shouldn't mind IMO, but I'm open to suggestions).
I really want to make clear distinction between city/dwelling Arabs and Bedouins as their military power as well as many other things differed.

concerning Dimashq vs. Ghouta issue - that's rather valid point.
That sounds like a great idea for a setup. Perhaps use Syrian instead of Levantine though.

Levantine is just a European term for the Arabs around Lebanon, Antioch, and Palestine. Mashriqi is an Arabic term for the Arabs in the East. In my honest opinion I feel like the "Arab" aspect should really be stressed. Especially at this time Arabs from Qurtubah all the way to Samarqand (not Arab but had Arab family's living there) had a much more unified dialect and were basically the same cultural group. Now the way this can be stressed is by not adding a "Syrian" group or an "Iraqi" group but by using terms us Arabs use to denote people from these areas. What im trying to say is that at that time you could not tell the difference between an Iraqi Sultan, a Shami Sultan, or even an Andalusi Sultan. All of these Arabs came from the peninsula only 2 or 3 generations ago. Also to be clear they did look different ethnically, but linguistically they are far similar than is shown in game.
They will still be in the same cultural group if they are split up of course. But having them all be one Arab monolith culture seems rather anachronistic to me, given the regional variations that existed to Arab culture.
 
Last edited:

ekorovin

Lt. General
6 Badges
Jun 30, 2013
1.537
29
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
Instead of Yemeni Jews add Mizrahi Jews. If we start adding country specific jewish groups youll end up with dozens.
As far as I know Mizrahi is more modern Israeli umbrella term for all Jews from Muslim countries i.e non-Ashkenazi, non-Sephardim, so it would be a bit anochronistic, none of them called themselves Mizrahim, or was known as Mizrahim before creation of Israel. Though I agree that creating every country-specific Jewish culture would be an overkill
 

elvain

Africa & MidEast cartographer
33 Badges
Jan 20, 2004
4.690
2.919
www.rome.webz.cz
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Cities: Skylines
  • 500k Club
  • Rome Gold
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II
I'm curently quite busy. Some development have been done, but not much to talk about.