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Cardinal Sin

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Since I know that the SWMH team is currently discussing putting in a new starting date between 867, I wanted to chip in as well :)

A starting date I would love to see in particular would be 955, and I would like to point out what would make it so good.

-Battle of Lechfeld. This could be simulated by the Hungarians invading Bavaria. Otto the Great should at that stage hold the titular kingdom of Germany and the (king-tier) stem duchy of Saxony, and after he defeats the Hungarians he should be able to become Holy Roman Emperor. Conversely, the Hungarians might be able to overturn history and occupy a large chunk of southern Germany.
-Fatimid invsion of Egypt. Perhaps a few years too early, but by 955 preparations were already under way. Much more defensible than the Hungarian invasion of Hungary in 867...
-England has just been united by elderly Eadred... but everything promises to go pear-shaped as soon as he dies and his ineffectual heir Eadwig ascends the throne.
-Olga is in charge of the Kievan Rus. Can a woman hold together a confederation as big as this - and convert it to Orthodoxy?
-Constantine VII is in charge on Byzantium. This amiable philosopher-emperor is actually a legitimised bastard. The real power however is held by the Lekapenoi, who are massively powerful. Will Constantine be able to cut them back?
-Peter of Serbia and Caslav of Bulgaria are duking it out. Byzantium is watching closely, ready to strike should those two parties exhaust themselves too much...
-The Buyids have just splintered into three factions - the Buyids of Baghdad, the Buyids of Ray and the Buyids of Shiraz. Whilst they are fighting amongst each other, the Abbasid caliphate hopes to make a come-back.
-The Hamdanids are in a precarious position, forming the border of the Islamic world against Byzantium. Will they fold against the purple blob?
-The Ghaznavids are rising - Sabuktigin should be a fun start!
-The Samanids rule much of Persia, but are threatened by the Ghaznavids. Can the Saffarids make a comeback?
-In France, the penultimate Carolingian king, Lothaire, sits on the through. Hugh the Great of Paris, though, has a very good claim on the throne; after all, his father Robert had been king of France already.
-In Norway, Haakon the Good tries to establish Christendom - but will he succeed against all the Norse vassals he has?
-Bohemia is in the process of turning Christian, whereas Poland is still firmly Slavic - though Mieszko would, historically, turn Christian still in this very year. After all, he is already married to a Christian.
 
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lutharien

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The Hungarians were unable to conquer large chunks of lands in Germany. And they were not interested, either. They went only for one thing: loot.
And I expect it would be impossible to model the Hungarian internal politics of the time.
 

elvain

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good list!

Especially the situation in Bohemia (we also control large chunks of Poland in this time, yay!) and Iran is one of reasons why I tend to support this date :)
 

ekorovin

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That's a good year for sure. But I I do hope that promised regent overhaul would prove worthwhile, or Olga, who is just a regent for child-prince Svyatoslav wouldn't be to interesting or even playable.
Of course, Svyatoslav himself, who destroyed Khazaria, conquered most of Bulgaria, fought with Byzantines with a different degree of success, resisted Christianisation and planned to move Russian capital to the Danube is an interesting character himself.
 
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Cardinal Sin

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I do agree, if the changes to regency which are upcoming are any good, 955 would become even more interesting due to the reign of Olga being one of the most important regencies of the middle ages :) And it would make Orthodoxy and Slavic paganism face off in Russia quite neatly.

I do know that an invasion is perhaps not the best way to portray what was going on at Lechfeld, but it would make sense in game - after all it would make for incredibly high stakes for Otto. If he wins, he gains peace and is able to form the HRE via decision. If he loses, he loses too much land to be able to do that, and Hungary can become the raging war god of middle Europe.
 

elvain

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I would love to have Mardavij in game, though that would be 20 decades too late for 955.
I can only confirm King's words above, even though it is very tempting for me to have bookmark where I could start as saint Venceslas, the patron of Bohemia.

but no, this is really too early
 

Cardinal Sin

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Mieszko turned Christian in 966 not 955. You should check that
Indeed, yes. Got that mixed up, sorry. But Christianisation was already well underway 11 years before that. I suppose at that point Poland could still have opted to embrace Islam or Judaism, but it would have been really difficult to stem the tide^^
 

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As much as an earlier date would be nice, I think the later starts should be improved first.
 
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theKing1988

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As much as an earlier date would be nice, I think the later starts should be improved first.
It's not something that we will start work on immediately, don't worry about that. We are all working on different projects right now that we would like to finish first. And even when they are done there is still a project or two left before this project is next in line on our to-do list. But we just thought that we'd air the idea with you, now that we were going to tell you that we would not do the Charlemagne bookmark.
 
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Ruwaard

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good list!

Especially the situation in Bohemia (we also control large chunks of Poland in this time, yay!) and Iran is one of reasons why I tend to support this date :)
I too (for obvious reasons ;)) like this date. :)
 

elvain

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Wel, I checked the list again and well... Sebuktegin probably wouldn't be possible (too early for him as he really started being important in 970's).

Concerning the Ghaznavids, I still think that 1000 or some date around (between 997 when Mahmud of Ghazna ascended the throne and 1003 when the Oghuz Yabghu converted to islam) will be pretty interesting in Khorasan and Transoxiana with all of Seljuks, Oghuz Yabghus, Samanids (or their remnants), Qarakhanids and Ghaznavids all fighting for domination over the region! In the west there would still be the minor Iranian dynasties and Buyids, Hungary just became kingdom, Poland with Boleslaw Chrobry at throne, the intriguing scenario around the North Sea and Andalusia just before the breakdown of Umayyad caliphate.

Well, my personal queston for this date (around 1000) is the queston of Bohemia-Poland relation as this was the time (1002-1003) when Boleslaw Chrobry has occupied Bohemia. It would be very intriguing, but I'm little affraid it would make him too powerfull (OTOH starting as the exiled Premyslid who's trying to regain his dynastic lands from this powerfull Poland would be very challenging mission).
 

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Wel, I checked the list again and well... Sebuktegin probably wouldn't be possible (too early for him as he really started being important in 970's).

Concerning the Ghaznavids, I still think that 1000 or some date around (between 997 when Mahmud of Ghazna ascended the throne and 1003 when the Oghuz Yabghu converted to islam) will be pretty interesting in Khorasan and Transoxiana with all of Seljuks, Oghuz Yabghus, Samanids (or their remnants), Qarakhanids and Ghaznavids all fighting for domination over the region! In the west there would still be the minor Iranian dynasties and Buyids, Hungary just became kingdom, Poland with Boleslaw Chrobry at throne, the intriguing scenario around the North Sea and Andalusia just before the breakdown of Umayyad caliphate.

Well, my personal queston for this date (around 1000) is the queston of Bohemia-Poland relation as this was the time (1002-1003) when Boleslaw Chrobry has occupied Bohemia. It would be very intriguing, but I'm little affraid it would make him too powerfull (OTOH starting as the exiled Premyslid who's trying to regain his dynastic lands from this powerfull Poland would be very challenging mission).
There is also the very exciting final showdown between Bulgaria and the Byzantines. It started in 1000 with the Byzantine capture of the old Capital Preslav.

You also have a challenging start in Hungary. Recently Christianized and acknowledged as a Kingdom by the Pope, most of the provinces would still be Tengri, while the majority of the aristocracy would be Catholic. Some nobles should still be Tengriist though. There was a Pagan-backlash after the death of Saint Stephen I

Same situation in Russia. Recently Christianized (988), with most provinces still being Slavic Pagan and the majority of the aristocracy being Orthodox.
 
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ekorovin

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Wel, I checked the list again and well... Sebuktegin probably wouldn't be possible (too early for him as he really started being important in 970's).

Concerning the Ghaznavids, I still think that 1000 or some date around (between 997 when Mahmud of Ghazna ascended the throne and 1003 when the Oghuz Yabghu converted to islam) will be pretty interesting in Khorasan and Transoxiana with all of Seljuks, Oghuz Yabghus, Samanids (or their remnants), Qarakhanids and Ghaznavids all fighting for domination over the region! In the west there would still be the minor Iranian dynasties and Buyids, Hungary just became kingdom, Poland with Boleslaw Chrobry at throne, the intriguing scenario around the North Sea and Andalusia just before the breakdown of Umayyad caliphate.

Well, my personal queston for this date (around 1000) is the queston of Bohemia-Poland relation as this was the time (1002-1003) when Boleslaw Chrobry has occupied Bohemia. It would be very intriguing, but I'm little affraid it would make him too powerfull (OTOH starting as the exiled Premyslid who's trying to regain his dynastic lands from this powerfull Poland would be very challenging mission).
Everything from around 1000 till 1015 is the age of Russian blob, with Vladimir the Saint is a ruler of all de-jure kingdoms in Russian area and allied with ERE, something should be done to prevent him stomping every one in the Eastern Europe.
 

theKing1988

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Everything from around 1000 till 1015 is the age of Russian blob, with Vladimir the Saint is a ruler of all de-jure kingdoms in Russian area and allied with ERE, something should be done to prevent him stomping every one in the Eastern Europe.
He is only allied with the ERE as long as his bride is alive. That alliance can end very quickly if the RNG decides to randomly kill her.
 

mrmastro

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Indeed, yes. Got that mixed up, sorry. But Christianisation was already well underway 11 years before that. I suppose at that point Poland could still have opted to embrace Islam or Judaism, but it would have been really difficult to stem the tide^^
Nothing happened:).Mieszko married in 965 Dobrawa, but the Czech influnce was big.But the start date 955 would be really cool
 

Cardinal Sin

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The thing is though that the starting date of 1000 is already offered by CK+. I really think SWMH should offer something different :) Especially since 1000 is not all that different from 1066, especially if Eric wins the Swedish civil war and William loses the conquest. The big difference are probably the Buyids, which you would also have in 955; as well as Burgundy, which would exist in 955 too. What I find so fascinating about 955 is that it is essentially the last date in which a number of important developments - like the Ottonian HRE forming, the Karlings being ejected from power in France, Poland going Christian and the Fatimids establishing themselves in Egypt - can still be reversed, though an SWMH starting date should of course favour the party that did succeed in these struggles. If you want 1000 because of the Norse-Catholic struggle, 955 is a perfect date as well, since the king of Norway has just converted.