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[SWMH] Persia - suggestions & discussion

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elvain

elvain

Africa & MidEast cartographer
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Jan 20, 2004
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I know that with the announced Indian expansion the planned major overhaul of Persia will probably be postponed, but we can start discussing it already now.

Anyway, the version-to-be-released will certainly contain a preliminary fixes in Persia, which do show how we would like to have Persia in future.
Here is a little teaser:
Persia-central_provinces.jpg

No province, nor settlement will be added, but all provinces are moved to their appropriate locations and duchies... that some new duchies will be created as well as one new kingdom.

The future plan is to add several new cultures: Daylami, Khorasani, (perhaps also Tajik, but that might well correspond with Khorasani), maybe also Azeri... - definitely the first two are in many sources referred as specific cultures.
Depending on what will Indian expansion allow us, we might create another new kingdom of Khorasan
btw, here is a comparison of new Persia compared to the vanilla
Persia-new_kingdoms.jpgPersia-vanilla.jpg
 
Given that the map is going to be expanded, Tajik should definetely be included imo (unless it overlaps too much with Khorasani). And i'm also in favour of separating the Azeri's from the Persian cultural blob.

But perhaps it's better to wait to discuss which cultures could be added to Eastern Persia, Afghanistan, Pakistan and Central Asia until we know more about RoI.

I'm a bit curious about the inclusion of the Kingdom of Daylam though. I can't come up with a specific realm of the area that the title could be connected to, but maybe i'm forgetting something.

ETA: BTW it looks like something is up with Qom and possibly Isfahan in that screenie.
 
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theKing1988 said:
Given that the map is going to be expanded, Tajik should definetely be included imo (unless it overlaps too much with Khorasani). And i'm also in favour of separating the Azeri's from the Persian cultural blob.
Click to expand...
The Tajik most probably will come if there's enough place for them. In the current setup Khorasani culture certainly should be enough. But I'll discuss this with my bro, who's has doctorate on East Iranian languages (and history).
As you said, it will be better to discuss this after more info about RoI is revealed.
Concerning the Azeris, they will either be taken under the Daylamites or separate... I am not sure now..

I'm a bit curious about the inclusion of the Kingdom of Daylam though. I can't come up with a specific realm of the area that the title could be connected to, but maybe i'm forgetting something.
Click to expand...
The original goal was to represent the base of Buyids..
The problem with this region is that it wasn't united at all (except for the Ziyarids in the 10th century), but it always was distinguished enough so I thought giving it a kingdom tier.
One of the reasons is that I just don't want Mesopotamia to reach the Caspian sea :)

ETA: BTW it looks like something is up with Qom and possibly Isfahan in that screenie.
Click to expand...
Yup, that is wrong positions which haven't been fixed yet...
 
elvain said:
The Tajik most probably will come if there's enough place for them. In the current setup Khorasani culture certainly should be enough. But I'll discuss this with my bro, who's has doctorate on East Iranian languages (and history).
As you said, it will be better to discuss this after more info about RoI is revealed.
Concerning the Azeris, they will either be taken under the Daylamites or separate... I am not sure now..

The original goal was to represent the base of Buyids..
The problem with this region is that it wasn't united at all (except for the Ziyarids in the 10th century), but it always was distinguished enough so I thought giving it a kingdom tier.
One of the reasons is that I just don't want Mesopotamia to reach the Caspian sea :)

Yup, that is wrong positions which haven't been fixed yet...
Click to expand...

I'd assume that the region would have been given to Persia if it weren't created as an independent Kingdom :p

Giving it to Mesopotamia would be silly.

ETA: Have you been put on the task of correcting Armenia and the Caucasus as well now that Bertuccio is taking a modding break, Elvain?
 
theKing1988 said:
I'd assume that the region would have been given to Persia if it weren't created as an independent Kingdom :p

Giving it to Mesopotamia would be silly.
Click to expand...
Yes, if it is not independent, then probably part of Persia, but that would make Persia too large... one of reasons why I prefer an independent Daylam

ETA: Have you been put on the task of correcting Armenia and the Caucasus as well now that Bertuccio is taking a modding break, Elvain?
Click to expand...
That's one of possibilities. I'd prefer to do Arabia though.. but who knows...
 
theKing1988 said:
How many duchies will Daylam consist of? 2 or 3? Tabriz, Mazandaran, Azerbaijan .... (If i remember their names correctly)
Click to expand...
3
In fact these 3 but Azerbaijan and Tabriz cover the same area, so they were merged and one of them renamed to Daylam
 
theKing1988 said:
What is the merged duchy called now then? Azerbaijan?
Click to expand...
yes.

Azerbaijan is the choice. Tabriz is the capital of Azerbaijan and it makes no sense to have it as separate duchy
to be correct, I should note that Tabriz would deserve own duchy perhaps in 16th and later periods when it was capital not only of Azerbaijan but of the whole Persia in Safavid period.
Also I should point out that I meant the historical region of Azerbaijan and not the current country which corresponds with historical Shirwan :)
 
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I don't really know enough about Central Asia to say whether it needs work or not though. On rivers and the like i mean.

It must be difficult for you guys to combine your projection with the new map though :(

I assume SWMH will be dormant for at least a couple of weeks and probably also more than a month while you work on it.

ETA: Also, sea zones in the Indian ocean :D I wonder if this means that they've fixed the AI or if they've added a channel/portage :unsure:
 
theKing1988 said:
I don't really know enough about Central Asia to say whether it needs work or not though. On rivers and the like i mean.
Click to expand...
not much hopefully, but keeping in mind the basic difference between SWMH and vanilla rivers, something will have to be done there.

It must be difficult for you guys to combine your projection with the new map though :(
ETA: Also, sea zones in the Indian ocean :D I wonder if this means that they've fixed the AI or if they've added a channel/portage :unsure:
Click to expand...
We'll see, even though we have seen little more, there is still more unclear than clear. It all depends on the exact content of the DLC, and I mean the other features than the map.

They announced 300+ provinces, but I don't believe they will all be in India/Central Asia/Siberia, I secretly hope for some African to be added.. and with them the long desired new settlement type for nomads (which will be necessary in the steppe, which will largely expand)

I assume SWMH will be dormant for at least a couple of weeks and probably also more than a month while you work on it.
Click to expand...
hopefully not. We would like to release the version which has already been announced
 
elvain said:
not much hopefully, but keeping in mind the basic difference between SWMH and vanilla rivers, something will have to be done there.


We'll see, even though we have seen little more, there is still more unclear than clear. It all depends on the exact content of the DLC, and I mean the other features than the map.

They announced 300+ provinces, but I don't believe they will all be in India/Central Asia/Siberia, I secretly hope for some African to be added.. and with them the long desired new settlement type for nomads (which will be necessary in the steppe, which will largely expand)

hopefully not. We would like to release the version which has already been announced
Click to expand...

I meant after that one of course. RoI is not being released until mid-March according to what we've heard, the current version should be out before then ;)
 
theKing1988 said:
And i love seeing Birjand broken up by the way. That was sorely needed :D

ETA: Daylam is still a part of the Persian Empire, right?
Click to expand...
Yes, it was, not to mention that it was totaly misplaced.. at least if there were provinces like Baluchistan or Sistan :)
Daylam will certainly belong to e_persia, no doubt!
 
I just fired up with newly released version, as you may have noticed :D And Gilan, Azerbaijan and Tabriz are all Kurdish. Is this really that accurate? Shouldn't they be Azeri/Persian?
 
theKing1988 said:
I just fired up with newly released version, as you may have noticed :D And Gilan, Azerbaijan and Tabriz are all Kurdish. Is this really that accurate? Shouldn't they be Azeri/Persian?
Click to expand...
You are totally right.

Like I said elsewhere, in the current "mini-overhaul" only provinces were redrawn and de-jure setup was changed. I decided to stop here, because I think it makes little sense to do this work twice as there will be major overhaul of Persia after the RoI release, and this update willl also include provinces and title history files.
Unfortunately we know that the current version is flawed, but there just was not enough time to do everything propperly.

At the current stage the main goal was to finnish East Africa and just fix the map which was largely changed due to changed projection..
 
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