SWMH: East Francia less prestigious than Bayern

[antidualist]

Is there any particular reason why the AI always chooses Bayern as it's Primary title above East Francia/Germany. It seems wrong to chose the Duchy title over the kingdom (even though in the game they are the same level). I assumed at first that it was because East Francia is titular but I've tired messing around with it's dignity (putting it up to 70) several times with no success so thought I'd post here to see whether anyone else had the same issue. It isn't really a major problem but it is quite annoying to see all of German go blue when Louis the German snuffs it and stops East Francia ever having any good de jure drift.

Any one have a solution?

 

[TheInsaneKid]

I have seen the AI sometimes use Bayern, sometimes use East Francia; so not sure if the AI is consistent about preferring Bayern.

 

[Raineh Daze]

East Francia exists? I've only seen it... once? What kingdom is it?

 

[SBolshevik]

East Francia exists? I've only seen it... once? What kingdom is it?

Germany.

 

[Aasmul]

East Francia is actually set as the more prestigious to try and keep that from happening, problem is that Baiern is de jure while East Francia isn't so AI will still sometimes preffer Baiern.

 

[Cardinal Sin]

Perhaps it would be an idea to make a separate Kingdom of Bavaria/Baiern to prevent this from happening. Or, alternatively, designate one of the stem duchies (for example Franconia, the name of which is cognate to Francia) as East Francia - which will then change its name to Franconia as soon as the HRE is formed.

 

[Raineh Daze]

East Francia is actually set as the more prestigious to try and keep that from happening, problem is that Baiern is de jure while East Francia isn't so AI will still sometimes preffer Baiern.

That explains it. Unless it only gets lands in other de jure realms... nope, not picking it.

 

[antidualist]

Would the command always_primary work here? As I understand it forming the HRE destroys the k_germany anyway so there shouldn't be a conflict at that level.

I'm gonna give it a go!

 

[antidualist]

Well that didn't work, it instantly gave East Francia a low born king with a low born successor. Weird anyone know why?

 

[mudcrabmerchant]

Why not just make a de jure Germany in the 867 start date, and put in some events/other restrictions to prevent k_germany and the HRE from coexisting?

 

[zijistark]

Well that didn't work, it instantly gave East Francia a low born king with a low born successor. Weird anyone know why?

I'm not aware of an always_primary title flag. I'm aware of primary = yes, of course, which forces a title to always be the primary title. However, you wouldn't want that in this case, because, well, it's not that type of title (what if the holder then formed the HRE?) and, additionally, primary-type titles imply a whole truckload of other semantics.

 

[EmperorTojo]

I do not see why they just do not make east francia de jure in the old gods start date. It is at least more legitimate than the fantasy kingdoms.

 

[antidualist]

@ zijistark: yeah I meant primary = yes.

I'm now thinking the only way to do it is to make it so that Bayern is destroyed if the holder also holds k_germany. It's not ideal as it prevents Bayern from splitting of from East Francia/Germany in the case of a gavelkind succession.

However since I'm probably going to try to mod the HRE so that it forms via event if one holds k_Germany (dissolving the kingdom at the same time) and meets some over conditions e.g. minimum holdings of 100, two kingdom titles (which would have to be Lotharingia, Burgundy or Lombardy, maybe France or Aquitaine as well). I don't think it should be too much of a problem and should guarantee that the HRE is formed.

I'll then also prevent the k_Germany from forming any of the de jure kindgoms that represent the stem duchies (which I think should only be formable once the HRE is created or if a duchy becomes independent of the k_germany)

A related question is does anyone know where the files that destroy the kingdoms of Germany and Lotharingia when the HRE forms, have looked in both the vanilla events and HIPs and can't work out how it is done. Edit: found them

 

[Meneth]

I do not see why they just do not make east francia de jure in the old gods start date. It is at least more legitimate than the fantasy kingdoms.

That's how it works in PB (I think. If not, I'll fix that); in the 867 start East Francia is the dejure title. In 1066 and later, Saxony is the dejure title.
When the HRE is formed by decision, Saxony replaces East Francia, and the East Francia title is destroyed (as are any other dejure kingdoms held within the HRE).

 

[Ruwaard]

That's how it works in PB (I think. If not, I'll fix that); in the 867 start East Francia is the dejure title. In 1066 and later, Saxony is the dejure title.
When the HRE is formed by decision, Saxony replaces East Francia, and the East Francia title is destroyed (as are any other dejure kingdoms held within the HRE).

I assume this decision only destroys the de jure kingdoms held by the future Emperor within the HRE. Depending on the version, for instance in SWMH, as Cardinal Sin suggests Franconia could act as East Francia. Alternatively Franconia, Saxony, Bavaria and Swabia could be united in a German Kingdom.

 

[Meneth]

I assume this decision only destroys the de jure kingdoms held by the future Emperor within the HRE. Depending on the version, for instance in SWMH, as Cardinal Sin suggests Franconia could act as East Francia. Alternatively Franconia, Saxony, Bavaria and Swabia could be united in a German Kingdom.

Yes, it only destroys the emperor's kingdoms (except those outside the dejure HRE of course, except for Italy).

 

[EmperorTojo]

That's how it works in PB (I think. If not, I'll fix that); in the 867 start East Francia is the dejure title. In 1066 and later, Saxony is the dejure title..

East francia is titular title. It's been as such in PB for a while and I suspected that was WAD eventually. In vanilla it has de jure land which prevents bavaria from becoming main title. Speaking of which, Lotharinigia has no de jure land either and I assume this can also lead the AI to prefer burgundy.

 

[theStormWeaver]

Why is this being made so complicated? What is wrong with the way it works in Vanilla?

 

[theKing1988]

I do not see why they just do not make east francia de jure in the old gods start date. It is at least more legitimate than the fantasy kingdoms.

They are not fantasy Kingdoms. A big Kingdom of Germany on the other hand is so anachronistic that it is bordering on Fantasy (The Holy Roman Empire and the Kingdom of Germany was one and the same thing throughout the entire CK2 period). The Stem Duchies on the other hand were very real and they were big enough to actually function as mini/medium-sized Kingdoms as you see in SWMH.

 

[Jaidal]

What if the stem duchies were titular, sort of like how tribal kingdoms operate, and/or possibly could only be created by independent rulers of a certain culture, and not by an empire level title holder?