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elvain

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as I am currently working on this region, this thread is meant to be for your proposals, feedback and all other things related to this region concerning map features.
When Cybr will be back, we could also discuss religious and other stuff concerning his east african paganism.

Also please take this thread as inspiration, we plan to open few more such threads about other regions, which we plan to have overhauled.

Several screenies are about to come some time later, so the discussion can start :)

De facto 867:

de jure kingdoms

religions

cultures
 

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elvain

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--- reserved for previous suggestions from original SWMH thread ---
 

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I remember reading about the swhali trading cities on the east africa coast south of Somalia. If I recall as well, swmh is going to extend sea zones to the arabic sea? If so, I think some of these cities could be good trading republics to help bring wealth to the middle east. Also if i read somewhere correctly as well, the nonchristian republics can't seize counties? So this will stop swahili from attacking the middle east, even if the middle east really isn't at all threatened by them. I don't know what religion these small republics on the east african coast should be though as I think they were mixed between pagan populous with some muslim rulers? Plus I know you guys could keep the trading republics of somalia and yemen from project balance.


SWAHILI from http://www.infoplease.com/dk/encyclopedia/medieval-africa.html#ENCY395SWAHIL

Swahili became the main language used by different peoples on the coast and islands of East Africa. Many of its words were taken from Arabic—the language of traders who sailed across the Indian Ocean, linking India and Arabia with East African ports such as Mogadishu, Gedi, and Kilwa.
WHO DID THE SWAHILI PEOPLES TRADE WITH?

East Africans produced valuable goods, such as leather, frankincense, leopard skins, ivory, iron, copper, and gold. They sold these to Indian Ocean traders. From around 1071, they sent ambassadors to trade with China, and, from 1418, welcomed Chinese merchant ships to East Africa’s ports.
ZANZIBAR

The island of Zanzibar, off the coast of East Africa, is where Swahili was first spoken. It became a major trading center for slaves, ivory, and cloves.

Read more: MEDIEVAL AFRICA | Infoplease.com http://www.infoplease.com/dk/encyclopedia/medieval-africa.html#ENCY395SWAHIL#ixzz2qgADfxYH


If anything, you could at least add the island of zanzibar and make it a venice style republic in east africa, even if the rest of mid eastern africa remains as wasteland
 

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One reason I don't play SWMH is the lack of a navigable Red Sea, Persian Gulf, and Indian Ocean. I'd rather have the unrealistic canal than have the unrealistic lack of ports and ships.
 

elvain

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I remember reading about the swhali trading cities on the east africa coast south of Somalia. If I recall as well, swmh is going to extend sea zones to the arabic sea? If so, I think some of these cities could be good trading republics to help bring wealth to the middle east. Also if i read somewhere correctly as well, the nonchristian republics can't seize counties? So this will stop swahili from attacking the middle east, even if the middle east really isn't at all threatened by them. I don't know what religion these small republics on the east african coast should be though as I think they were mixed between pagan populous with some muslim rulers? Plus I know you guys could keep the trading republics of somalia and yemen from project balance.
The island of Zanzibar, off the coast of East Africa, is where Swahili was first spoken. It became a major trading center for slaves, ivory, and cloves.

If anything, you could at least add the island of zanzibar and make it a venice style republic in east africa, even if the rest of mid eastern africa remains as wasteland
Unfortunately I seem to mislead you with the thread title. While you meant actual RL, East Africa, this thread is rather about CK2 East Africa, which stops in northern half of Somalia and we don't plan map expansion southwards, so unfortunately Zanzibar and the things you mentioned are way far south to be included.
One reason I don't play SWMH is the lack of a navigable Red Sea, Persian Gulf, and Indian Ocean. I'd rather have the unrealistic canal than have the unrealistic lack of ports and ships.
Well, we prefer having things as realistic as possible. and unless we are sure that HRE or italian repulics won't expand to the Red Sea or further to Indian Ocean we prefered not to make it navigable.

It seems now it might be possible, so in future you may possibly get your desired navigable Indian Ocean also in SWMH.
 

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Unfortunately I seem to mislead you with the thread title. While you meant actual RL, East Africa, this thread is rather about CK2 East Africa, which stops in northern half of Somalia and we don't plan map expansion southwards, so unfortunately Zanzibar and the things you mentioned are way far south to be included.

Well, we prefer having things as realistic as possible. and unless we are sure that HRE or italian repulics won't expand to the Red Sea or further to Indian Ocean we prefered not to make it navigable.

It seems now it might be possible, so in future you may possibly get your desired navigable Indian Ocean also in SWMH.

It was worth a try.
 

elvain

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Arko

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Well, we prefer having things as realistic as possible. and unless we are sure that HRE or italian repulics won't expand to the Red Sea or further to Indian Ocean we prefered not to make it navigable.

It seems now it might be possible, so in future you may possibly get your desired navigable Indian Ocean also in SWMH.
I guess some distance limitations to CB are possible like holy wars have. Republics already have a distance malus for the trade post cost taht limits it but sadly can't prevent it completly. Let's hope future patches will bring some more possibilities on this side for modders^^
 

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I guess some distance limitations to CB are possible like holy wars have. Republics already have a distance malus for the trade post cost taht limits it but sadly can't prevent it completly. Let's hope future patches will bring some more possibilities on this side for modders^^
I've never actually seen any European realm attack Arabia in PB where the Indian Ocean has long been traversible.
The only exception being attacks via Jerusalem, of course, but that happens fine without the ocean too.
 

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The only thing I have ever seen using PB+VIET was a Viking adventurer's invasion of Yemen, which was hilarious and got wiped off the map by the Somalians pretty soon anyways.
 

theKing1988

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I see that you decided to keep k_Sennar and put k_Daju under that title instead Elvain. Seems like a good solution :)
 

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The only thing I have ever seen using PB+VIET was a Viking adventurer's invasion of Yemen, which was hilarious and got wiped off the map by the Somalians pretty soon anyways.
They where probably trying to get away from a high pitched lady.

Edit: I've once seen a viking invasion of the viet republic of Hormuz. I was playing as the zoroastrians and just kept them as converted vassals.
Great game.
 

Cardinal Sin

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Another idea, apart from opening up the Indian Ocean - instead of the work-around with "Pagans" in East Africa, "West African" could be renamed into "African Animist" and put in place where it just says "Pagan" now. I know, that presupposes that there is just one kind of African Animism, but until Cybr fleshes out his East African Paganism, that is the best solution for East African pagans that I have at the moment.
 

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In the bottom of the 1st picture there is a unlocalised duchy, and I think that the generic "pagan" religion should be molded into an East African religion similar to the West African one seen in vanilla.
 

theKing1988

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In the bottom of the 1st picture there is a unlocalised duchy, and I think that the generic "pagan" religion should be molded into an East African religion similar to the West African one seen in vanilla.
Elvain is planning to implement VIET's East African Paganism once the initial overhaul of East Africa is finished and Cybr is back.
 

elvain

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I see that you decided to keep k_Sennar and put k_Daju under that title instead Elvain. Seems like a good solution :)
Yes, former mini kingdoms of Darfur (inhabited by the Daju) and Sennar were merged into kingdom of Sennar.
In the bottom of the 1st picture there is a unlocalised duchy
My fault, I should have pointed out that this is currently a WIP for the version currently in development and I always do localisations as one of the last things, so you'll surely find there missing localisations on those screenies.

Another idea, apart from opening up the Indian Ocean - instead of the work-around with "Pagans" in East Africa, "West African" could be renamed into "African Animist" and put in place where it just says "Pagan" now. I know, that presupposes that there is just one kind of African Animism, but until Cybr fleshes out his East African Paganism, that is the best solution for East African pagans that I have at the moment.
I think that the generic "pagan" religion should be molded into an East African religion similar to the West African one seen in vanilla.
I am still not sure about this. I really don't want to create a new religion and for this I think it is better to use Cybr's East African religion, but right now I am not sure whether it is already done or compatible with SWMH, but the plan is that they will be. I'm little affraid that making all-African pagan religion would make it in fact unreformable (with holy sites being distributed to both East and West Africa). These are the reasons why I still prefer to have Pagans in East Afica just those generic Pagans. Note that there will be no more than 3 pagan states in this region and because of them I don't want to ruin the game for West Africans or create a separate religion which is being developed in VIET

Elvain is planning to implement VIET's East African Paganism once the initial overhaul of East Africa is finished and Cybr is back.
Well, this isn't perfectly clear. We need to talk about it first with Cybr and before this talk, I don't want to promise anything.
As soon as it is done, I'd recomend to use VIET :)
 

Undead Martyr

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Started an ironman abyssinia. It's fun.:cool:
Was in the middle of tearing apart Harer (? the "horn" of Africa) with de jure county claims, when one of the bugger's two remaining provinces had a 1500 Miaphysite rebel stack spawn literally right before I finish sieging the province, wiping out 600 troops... it wasn't the province I was going for and I was already at 100% (trying to get money to repay loans) so I peaced out and took the province, but the rebels then started traveling down through my lands, and as I had no boats and my army was in enemy lands...
long story short, my army, which was nominally ~3500, was cut in half by f%## rebels of my own bloody religion... and of course my ambitious brother, of Axum, chose that moment to push his claim.... 1500 to 1000 troops, I assassinated his ass. But it was quite frustrating, especially as I immediately vassalized the rebel province after they won...
I then went on (after my army recovered a bit) to violate the Baqt and did a holy war for Sanaa/Oman against the Caliph... I was allied with the Byzzies through marriage, my army was around 4500 his around 5500 but up in Persia in either a rebellion or against the Karens. I sacked Mecca (it was a juicy greenish on the econ map, and I needed the money- all four loans and in debt, because for some reason two of my provinces started with no holdings, and I needed a market or two to get some friggin ships... and I wanted a tournament...:cool:)and was sieging Medina before he got down there, but the ERE 5700 stack showed up right thereafter and wiped the floor with him.
The Caliph's army was actually smaller than mine at the end of it all- we both had around 6000, but I think he was down to 2000(!) at the time. And Mecca and Medina were noticeably redder.:p

Meanwhile the son of my murdered brother was pushing for seniority. I had managed to get primogeniture, and my first response, naturally, was to kill the ungrateful bugger. Literally the moment after I start scheming I get a "righteous imprisonment" popup- sure enough he's trying to kill me. I imprison then banish him, takng 180 gold, his county and the single-county vassal, and used the money to pay off a loan. It was extremely satisfying. My son meanwhile is married to the genius daughter of a single-county muslim vassal I murdered jast because. I educated her myself, she's a proper Miaphysite Ethiopian now. I've also murdered at least three child counts for the money... the moral of the story is being an evil tyrant is fun and profitable. My income is around 110 a year, my army caps at 5500 or so, just shy of the caliph's maximum forces and in the top ten worldwide. My first rule died at 60ish, now I'm trying to get rid of my son's craven and stressed traits (despite being a skilled tactician and competent fighter...) so I can holy war for Mecca.
 

elvain

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So Ethiopia is now almost done and here are some screenies for you:
it is still WIP, so not everything is 100%, but feel free to comment.

867:
1066:
1187: