Switzerland back in German region

[Chronicler]

I would suggest Switzerland be put back in the German region for the following reasons.

1. Germany is now harder to create
2. It only gives claims and not cores
3. That's where it belongs

 

[ShadowCammy]

Considering Switzerland is more of a confederation of French, Germans, and Italians, I'd say it's fine where it is. I don't believe anyone had aspirations to bring Switzerland into Germany either, mainly due to its neutral stance at the time of Germany's formation.

 

[Grand Historian]

I don't care much about forming Germany, but since Switzerland was traditionally part of the HRE, I can back this.

 

[SanX]

My plus for that, same reasons as Grand Historian.

 

[Mattius]

German culture group, German Region.

 

[Chronicler]

Considering Switzerland is more of a confederation of French, Germans, and Italians, I'd say it's fine where it is. I don't believe anyone had aspirations to bring Switzerland into Germany either, mainly due to its neutral stance at the time of Germany's formation.

From my understanding historical Switzerland (and todays Switzerland) was almost entirely German

EDIT: Oh, and also, I know at least that Hitler wanted Switzerland in Germany, haven't read up on previous governments etc.

 

[Woifee]

What Hitler wanted and not isn't a valid point. He also wanted Poland and Russia.

Also Italy or Bohemia are traditional parts of the HRE, so are they in the German Region.

Can't you just split it into a french, italian and german part in different regions?

 

[Grand Historian]

What Hitler wanted and not isn't a valid point. He also wanted Poland and Russia.

Also Italy or Bohemia are traditional parts of the HRE, so are they in the German Region.

Can't you just split it into a french, italian and german part in different regions?

That would create ahistorical border-gore. Whether they spoke French, Italian or German is irrelevant; they all considered themselves Swiss.

 

[Chronicler]

That would create ahistorical border-gore. Whether they spoke French, Italian or German is irrelevant; they all considered themselves Swiss.

Ehh, I'm pretty sure they considered themselves German, if the Swiss identity existed at all. Maybe Swiss and German. Like prussian and german, or bavarian and german. etc.

 

[Chronicler]

What Hitler wanted and not isn't a valid point. He also wanted Poland and Russia.

Also Italy or Bohemia are traditional parts of the HRE, so are they in the German Region.

Can't you just split it into a french, italian and german part in different regions?

Hitler wanted parts of Poland that had previously belonged to Germany. There is still discussion on of his attack on the Soviet Union was pre-emptive or not. (But off-topic I suppose).

The case is still though that the italian and frech were in extreme minority.

 

[Woifee]

Hitler wanted parts of Poland that had previously belonged to Germany. There is still discussion on of his attack on the Soviet Union was pre-emptive or not. (But off-topic I suppose).

The case is still though that the italian and frech were in extreme minority.

In his propaganda he said he want to unite all the germans and only the germans in one state. He broke his promise first with conquering all of Bohemia.

He also said he want "Lebensraum im Osten", space to life in the east. So also Russia.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebensraum

But yes off topic, but I would never support an argument with what hitler wanted or thought.

 

[Twoflower]

Perhaps a more valid argument would be that in the Swabian War of 1499 Emperor Maximilian I tried to impose imperial authority and the new institutions created by the Imperial Reform in Switzerland, which tells us two things about the situation in the end of the 15th century:
1. the Hapsburg emperor and his allies very much considered Switzerland, or at least its non-Burgundian parts, part of the Kingdom of Germany.
2. the Swiss were opposed to that, and did not recognize the reforms introduced by the Diet at Worms (Reichskammergericht, Gemeiner Pfennig, Ewiger Landfriede, Reichsregiment) as valid for their territory

Since the Swiss won that war, they effectively ceased to be part of the Kingdom of Germany after that.

 

[Chronicler]

Perhaps a more valid argument would be that in the Swabian War of 1499 Emperor Maximilian I tried to impose imperial authority and the new institutions created by the Imperial Reform in Switzerland, which tells us two things about the situation in the end of the 15th century:
1. the Hapsburg emperor and his allies very much considered Switzerland, or at least its non-Burgundian parts, part of the Kingdom of Germany.
2. the Swiss were opposed to that, and did not recognize the reforms introduced by the Diet at Worms (Reichskammergericht, Gemeiner Pfennig, Ewiger Landfriede, Reichsregiment) as valid for their territory

Since the Swiss won that war, they effectively ceased to be part of the Kingdom of Germany after that.

I don't see how them being or not being part of the Kingdom of Germany makes them German or non-German though?

Obviously they are still German.

 

[Twoflower]

I thought this thread was about them being part of the German region. In my opinion the German region should not necessarily be defined by German culture, but by the political Kingdom of Germany.

 

[Chronicler]

I thought this thread was about them being part of the German region. In my opinion the German region should not necessarily be defined by German culture, but by the political Kingdom of Germany.

Well, Switzerland was still part of the "Kingdom of Germany", if you want to call the HRE that, (Holy Roman Emperor having the title King of the Germans).

Rejecting reforms doesn't mean rejecting everything (they still formed part of HRE/Kingdom of Germany).

 

[Twoflower]

I mean the Kingdom of Germany, as in the part of the HRE that did not belong to the Kingdoms of Burgundy, Bohemia or Italy. This is a distinction that did exist, as is demonstrated e.g. by the existence of the offices of archchancellors of Germany (Archbishop of Mainz), of Italy (Archbishop of Cologne) and of Burgundy (Archbishop of Trier). Also, the Imperial Reform initiated at the Diet of Worms in 1495 only applied to the Kingdoms of Germany and Burgundy, and not to Imperial Italy, Bohemia or Switzerland - which is why the Swiss cantons were not part of an Imperial Circle.
Since Italy, Bohemia and Burgundy are not part of the German region despite being part of the HRE, I daresay this is not too bad an argument against including Switzerland in the German region.

 

[SilasW]

Also Switzerland did historically leave the HRE in 1648. Really I'd say that Switzerland should have an event chain that leads to it leaving the HRE the way it did historically.

 

[Woifee]

Also Switzerland did historically leave the HRE in 1648. Really I'd say that Switzerland should have an event chain that leads to it leaving the HRE the way it did historically.

But... why just dont leave the empire as Switzerland? As long you are not Emperor you can leave it all the time.

 

[Twoflower]

But... why just dont leave the empire as Switzerland? As long you are not Emperor you can leave it all the time.

As a player, you can of course. The AI will never do that, though.

 

[Chronicler]

I mean the Kingdom of Germany, as in the part of the HRE that did not belong to the Kingdoms of Burgundy, Bohemia or Italy. This is a distinction that did exist, as is demonstrated e.g. by the existence of the offices of archchancellors of Germany (Archbishop of Mainz), of Italy (Archbishop of Cologne) and of Burgundy (Archbishop of Trier). Also, the Imperial Reform initiated at the Diet of Worms in 1495 only applied to the Kingdoms of Germany and Burgundy, and not to Imperial Italy, Bohemia or Switzerland - which is why the Swiss cantons were not part of an Imperial Circle.
Since Italy, Bohemia and Burgundy are not part of the German region despite being part of the HRE, I daresay this is not too bad an argument against including Switzerland in the German region.

I think we have lost each other somewhere.

As far as I know, they have stated that the Kingdom of Germany you can create in the game is not based on anything in the HRE but an early version of the German Empire (since there was moves for closer union).

And once you form this kingdom in the past it was technically all german regions=cores (EU3)

But not it's not like that anymore, and thus Switzerland should be put back in the German region/culture