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circumstances: switching your country tag to a different country tag, then granting independence to your old country tag.

result: old, recently freed tag cannot receive events unless they are directly triggered via events received by the new tag (and perhaps all other tags).

result: new tag does not receive monarchs defined in their monarch file, and instead, old tag's monarch is 'carried over'. The old tag, receives a random non-sense monarch. Presumably taken from the random leaders file?

what has been cured since 1.07 under the same circumstances:
1)the skull that forms once you grant independence to your old tag, after switching to a new tag.
2)receiving events for your old tag, despite having switched to a new tag.

Any of the gods free to ponder this one? *kneels down to pray in silence*
 
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jpd

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Known problem.

Solution for now: Save, quit and reload after switching tags.

Jan Peter
 

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jdp said:
Known problem.

Solution for now: Save, quit and reload after switching tags.

Jan Peter
hey Jan, thanks for responding quickly.

Is the issue a difficult one to solve in a new patch then? Or would this be a relatively easy thing to fix for a next beta?
Either way good luck and hope it can be fixed soon.

I will save and re-load and see if it works.
 

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Well, although I am a professional programmer myself, I don't have knowledge of, or access to the source code of EU2. My programmer's instinct suggests that once you know exactly what to look for (read: exact symptoms + reproducable actions to get to the problem), it should be solvable.

OTOH, the problems with tag changes have been in the game for very long, and are also known for quite some time. That would suggest it's not a trivial problem to solve.

Only Johan is in a position to give a definitive answer on this one. He would get a fistfull of thumbs ups from me if he is able to find and resolve this issue. :D

Jan Peter
 

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Let me see if I have it right: you switch tags (eg NOV becomes RUS or ARG becomes SPA), save, reload, release your old country as a vassal, then annex it again ... THEN it CTDs? What if you save and reload again before the annexation?

Does it make any difference how long between the tag switch and the annexation? Is this military or diplomatic annexation? Why would you do this? How often does this happen in real play?

This is with the Jan 24 beta?
 

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november patch. Military annexation. 10 years after granting independence to old tag. no save or reloads though. I'll try saving and reloading to see if this still occurs. But really, you shouldn't have to save and reload for the game to function properly.

Inheritance woarks fine I believe. I've tested that before. Perhaps it is a monarch conflict?...will test more.
 

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Umm, really? I want to make sure I 100% understand the sequence here. Can you document a procedure to duplicate this issue, step by step? Thanks.
 

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It's pretty complex b/c I am using EEP. I have new leaders and events. They run smoothly, parsed and everything. The conflict is a monarch conflict upon re-uinifcation though. See this thread

I have a re-producable one that I will outline for you to test/play around with if you want. It is not the same CtD that is occuring later on, but it is a CtD i discovered playing around with monarchs in order to investigate this whole thing. Here goes...

put this into monarch.eng, # out Henry V

historicalmonarch = {
id = { type = 6 id = 04031 }
name = "Transfered Henry VI"
startdate = {
day = 31
month = december
year = 1418
}
deathdate = {
day = 20
month = june
year = 1435
}
DIP = 7
ADM = 7
MIL = 7
dormant = no
Remark = "War of the Roses"
}

historicalmonarch = {
id = { type = 6 id = 04033 }
name = "NEW Henry VI"
startdate = {
day = 31
month = june
year = 1419
}
deathdate = {
day = 11
month = april
year = 1435
}
DIP = 1
ADM = 1
MIL = 1
dormant = no
Remark = "War of the Roses"
}

now put this into monarch.roy

historicalmonarch = {
id = { type = 6 id = 19985 }
name = "Richard Plantagenet" #Richard Plantagenet, Duke of York#
startdate = {
day = 1
month = january
year = 1419
}
deathdate = {
day = 31
month = december
year = 1424
}
DIP = 7
ADM = 7
MIL = 7
dormant = yes
Remark = "War of the Roses"
}

and add these events into major_eng.txt

#Eve of Civil War...

event = {
id = 2000050
random = no
country = ENG
trigger = {
owned = { province = 247 data = -1 }
owned = { province = 243 data = -1 }
OR = {
owned = { province = 382 data = -1 }
owned = { province = 383 data = -1 }
owned = { province = 384 data = -1 }
owned = { province = 380 data = -1 }
}
}
date = { day = 1 month = may year = 1419 }
offset = 30
deathdate = { day = 1 month = december year = 1419 }

name = "The Eve of Civil War..."
desc = CHOOSE A"

action_a = {
name = "The House of York..."
command = { type = country which = ROY }
command = { type = trigger which = 2000079 }
}
action_b = {
name = "The House of Lancaster..."
command = { type = independence which = ROY }
}
}

#####################################
# Having picked Yorkists, the Lancaster faction is outlined
###################################

# player as ROY tag...

event = {
id = 2000079
random = no
country = ROY

trigger = {
event = 2000050
owned = { province = 247 data = -1 }
owned = { province = 243 data = -1 }
}
date = { day = 1 month = june year = 1419 }
offset = 1
deathdate = { day = 1 month = december year = 1419 }

name = "Yorkist Support"
desc = ""

action_a = {
name = "Ok"
command = { type = sleepmonarch which = 04031 } #Henry VI
command = { type = wakemonarch which = 19985 } #Richard Plantagenet, duke of York
command = { type = stability value = 3 }
command = { type = treasury value = 300 }
command = { type = relation which = BUR value = 100 }
command = { type = relation which = EIR value = 100 }
command = { type = independence which = ENG }
command = { type = trigger which = 2000080 }
}
}

# player as ROY, gives ENG lands back

event = {
id = 2000080
random = no
country = ROY

name = "The House of Lancaster"
desc = ""

action_a = {
name = "Ok"
command = { type = relation which = FRA value = -75 }
command = { type = relation which = SCO value = -75 }
command = { type = relation which = BRI value = -75 }
command = { type = desertion which = -1 value = 5000 }
command = { type = desertion which = -1 value = 5000 }
command = { type = secedeprovince which = ENG value = 240 } #Northumberland
command = { type = secedeprovince which = ENG value = 241 } #Lancashire
command = { type = secedeprovince which = ENG value = 242 } #Yorkshire
command = { type = secedeprovince which = ENG value = 247 } #Anglia
command = { type = secedeprovince which = ENG value = 250 } #Cornwall
command = { type = removecore which = 240 }
command = { type = removecore which = 241 }
command = { type = removecore which = 242 }
command = { type = removecore which = 245 }
command = { type = removecore which = 247 }
command = { type = removecore which = 248 }
command = { type = removecore which = 249 }
command = { type = removecore which = 250 }
command = { type = trigger which = 2000081 }
}
}

# AI as ENG,

event = {
id = 2000081
random = no
country = ENG

name = "The House of York"
desc = ""

action_a = {
name = "Ok"
command = { type = breakvassal which = ROY }
command = { type = vassal which = ROY }
command = { type = secedeprovince which = ROY value = 244 } #Midlands
command = { type = secedeprovince which = ROY value = 246 } #Bristol
}
}

# St. Alban's - for ROY

event = {
id = 2000082
random = no
country = ROY
trigger = {
event = 2000081
NOT = {
war = { country = ROY country = ENG }
}
}
date = { day = 1 month = august year = 1419 }
offset = 30
deathdate = { day = 1 month = december year = 1419 }

name = "St. Alban's"
desc = "CHOOSE B for a CtD!"

action_a = {
name = "Charge!"
command = { type = relation which = ENG value = -200 }
command = { type = breakvassal which = ENG }
command = { type = stability value = -1 }
command = { type = treasury value = 100 }
}
action_b = {
name = "Submit to Henry"
command = { type = stability value = -4 }
command = { type = inherit which = ENG }
}
}

#Yorkist Early Submission

event = {
id = 2000048
random = no
country = ROY
trigger = {
event = 2000082
}
date = { day = 1 month = august year = 1419 }
offset = 30
deathdate = { day = 1 month = december year = 1419 }

name = "York Submits"
desc = "Last event"

action_a = {
name = "OK"
command = { type = country which = ENG }
command = { type = capital which = 247 }
}
}


When NEW Henry VI ascends the English throne, he will ascend the throne of the Royalists aswell, and then when the two nations re-unite, this causes a CtD. These circumstances are not entirely the same, on the surface, as the ones encountered further down the line with different start and death dates and "dorment" settings on the ENG monarchs.
 

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I feel bad for having made you write all that; I didn't realise EEP was involved. As I read the EEP thread, this situation cannot occur in the Paradox-provided scenarios.

I tell you what, I'll report it in the beta forum and see what they say. But I doubt it'll be looked into.
 
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Andrew, thanks for the interest.

It isn't strictly confined to EEP. In any version, if you make a country tag switch, then release your old tag as a vassal, then there are CtDs on re-inheritance in certain circumstances. What I want is a definition of those circumstances. My initial explorations pointed towards a monarch conflict. But that is just a hypothesis.

The strangest thing is that early on after you've released your old tag as a vassal, you can inherit your old tag via event with no issues whatsoever.

But, if this event does not occur, and you say go to war with your old tag, then an inheritance event that occurs later (during this war) generates a CtD. I don't think it is necessarily attached to the state of war, as I've managed to get a succesful inheritance with certain event and monarch manipulations.

So thus my initial hypothesis was that I've broken some elaborate monarch rules and priorities that have to do with country tag switching and absorbtion of your old tag once it has co-exited with you. You can setup your own test easily enough by switching your tag and then releasing your old tag via event. Create some new monarchs in the new tag's monarch file for the period. If your experiences are anything lke mine, you might run into some CtDs and monarch oddities when you get your monarch rolling on your new tag, and then you try to re-inherit the old tag via event.
 

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What's the big deal here? Whenever you change tags, save, and then load the game as your new tag. You probably do this when the computer changes tags as well.
 

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Gjerg Kastrioti said:
What's the big deal here? Whenever you change tags, save, and then load the game as your new tag. You probably do this when the computer changes tags as well.
That's precisely the big deal. You don't always know when a computer AI has switched tags. And not saving/quiting/reloading after a tag change screws up some internals related to the tags, like tag specific events.

Jan Peter
 

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Well, unmodded EUII has few tag changes.

Otherwise there's really only castille-Spain, Muscovy-Russia, Muscovy-Russia, And Chin-Manchu-China. French minors and Russian minors becoming France and Russia normally only happens with player intervention. 4 or 5 saves and loads per game, not all that much.

IMO, It's only really custom mods like the EEP, with a bewildering array of rapid tag changes, inheritances, province ceding and vassal releasing where this will be a problem.
 

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ideally, no game should be asking ppl to save their game in order to ensure a working game.

I am not really demanding any changes anyways, the fact is these moderators volunteer their time and those responsible for bug fixes and patches mostly volunteer aswell, so I would consider it fortunate and lucky if my investigations yielded something solid which would help someone 'up there' who was possibly going to work on it. Let alone actually having someone devoted to the problem. The Ctd occurs, it is a fact. It's not a product of some blanket excuse to be blamed on a specific mod, really.

In the vanilla games, release Castile once you've switched to Spain, then try to reconquer them. Under certain circumstances, you will find a CtD upon annexation, and/or inheritance via event.

The problem is a remote one, yes. But with it, it is certainly hard to accomplish certain situations which should be feasible and, indeed, are for the most part.

Also, saving will cause a CtD in some cases aswell in these situations. On occasions where I've been able to save the game, there are times when I have reloaded only to find myself loaded up as my released old tag after I'd switched to the new tag and released my old tag as a vassal.
 

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I've reported this new wrinkle on the CTD/tag-change problem to Paradox. No response so far, sorry.
 

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ah well, no worries. I did manage to find out the parameters for becoming your old tag on game-reload.

Basically, it will occur if you save your game as your new tag while your old tag exists. Then, re-annex your old tag, do a country switch back to your old tag and save. If you load up your old save game, you will be your old tag, and not your new tag (the tag you were when you saved). And you will receive events as your old tag, rather than your new tag. Weird.

This is eliminated however, if you actually quit your game to the scenario-menu, and load up that same saved game from there.
 

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If I'm following you correctly, this is working as designed - that's how you swap countries from a saved game. It happens when there's no tag swap either, I think you'll find.
 

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start as old tag, switch to new tag, release old tag and then save your game. Then you annex your old tag, and then become your old tag again. If this sequence occurs, and you reload your save game (which was the point where you were the new tag, and your old tag was co-existing with you but was controlled by the AI) you will find that when the game reloads you have becme your old tag, and the AI now controls he new tag (which was the tag you were when you saved). Provided you load up the game from game-play screens. This doesn't occur if you quit to the scenraio menu and load that save game up.

That's normal? To become a different tag when you reload a game?

To clarify, when I say 'switch to new tag' I mean switch tag via event command.