Sweden too overpowered in EU2??

[unmerged(16460)]

I think there may be three discussions going on here:
I have always been in favor of bending the TRUTH to create a historical OUTCOME. These are different things. First, we need to come up with a theory to explain Sweden's rise to power. If it is economic, then we need to provide some economic changes for Sweden. If it is military (probably imho) then we need to provide some military changes for Sweden. But we should use history as a guide, not a straight jacket.

I agree, the outcome matters the most.

I belive the reason Sweden bacame as powerfull as it did where partial due its iron ore. (At the time it was just about the best in the world and it where plentyfull). To top it all it was a heavily militarised country, with a large % of the population involved in the army on one way or the other. (large compared to other countries)

 

[unmerged(16460)]

Well, the peace of Nöteburg (Pähkinäsaari) was made between Sweden and Novgorod. So where Sweden ends, Novgorod begins, at least that's the way I see it.

As you see it would it be posible to cover up some of Finland with tear incognita for every other country than Sweden, only placing trading posts in the area? -Sweden would then be the only country able to see the area and colonize it. (the sad part would be that ugric would be removed as a culture in Finland). Would a humanplayer playing Denmark be able to explaot this to much?

(Perhaps making it colonies with 50 pop or so?)

Btw: Archduke: Love your avatar!

 

[unmerged(25696)]

Would a humanplayer playing Denmark be able to explaot this to much?

Yes, by taking Sweden's capital, discovering its maps, then burning the TPs.

The same with colonies, but he would grab them in peace deals.

 

[unmerged(16460)]

Yes, by taking Sweden's capital, discovering its maps, then burning the TPs.

The same with colonies, but he would grab them in peace deals.

Would this also apply if they had fortresses?

 

[TheArchduke]

Btw: Archduke: Love your avatar!

Thx, I like it, too.

 

[Norrefeldt]

Well, the peace of Nöteburg (Pähkinäsaari) was made between Sweden and Novgorod. So where Sweden ends, Novgorod begins, at least that's the way I see it.

And the Österbotten is bigger than just the coast. It's probably true that the coast of Österbotten had swedish influence at the time, but deciding province ownership by so small part

When dividing what they did divide, and we don't even know this, they talked about spheres of interest. In reality no-one controlled those areas, not Sweden and not Novgorod. They should be colonisable, but it wouldn't work well in the game. When talking about Österbottent early on we have to consider where the taxable people had permanent recidence and what part the authorities could reach. That's the coast, and it was only reached from the west. The rest is of little concern 1419.

Removing Ugric from Sweden will never happen so I wont discuss it much. Should Sweden have lower tax and manpower from Finland, should there be more rebellions? Nah. Finns were always a unproportinally large part of Swedish armies and Finland was not the most troublesome parts of Sweden. That was Dalarna and Bergslagen, and later Skåne.

 

[unmerged(25696)]

Would this also apply if they had fortresses?

You can't have fortresses on TPs AFAIK. And it would be only a bit more difficult with fortified colonies. But nothing hard enough to deter a player from doing it.

The real interest of the fortresses in northern scandinavia, is winter : the invader has to lay siege, and he gets caught by winter's high attrition.

 

[Ayeshteni]

Sweden is NOT overpowered.

Far from it. The only time i saw Sweden powerful was when they diploannexed Lithuania around 1480, which theythen lost.

In new patch, Sweden is constantly bent over the table by Denmark.
I have never understood people saying that Sweden is overpowered as they never are in my games, and I play too much EU2 than what is good for me.

I played Sweden once, it was an interesting game, but I swear the game hated me, and constantly reversed anything I done:

I sent colonists to my provinces hoping to push them over 5000 - 'excuse me mate have a coupla plagues throughout your land CONSTANTLY'

celebrating the crowning of the great Gustav Vasa - A knock on the door as the kings doctor informs the court that he a meglomaniac, obsessive gibbering loonie

I had a thread here somewhere, describing this very thing.

Nope, Sweden is a quiet little puppy in my games.
yours
Ayeshteni

 

[Hive]

Sweden is NOT overpowered.

Far from it. The only time i saw Sweden powerful was when they diploannexed Lithuania around 1480, which theythen lost.

Well in my games - and apparantly most others' as well - that's not the case...

 

[unmerged(25696)]

Well in my games - and apparantly most others' as well - that's not the case...

I'll throw my 2 ducats worth, as I've never found Sweden to be overpowered. Quite more often, I see an uber-Denmark extending in North Germany AND in Sweden. Sweden does manage to grow at the expense of Denmark or in the Baltic/Germany, but it's not to the extend Denmark does.

I agree with the suggestion that neither Denmark nor Sweden should be able to wage huge wars in the beginning. Make them difficult to invade, yes, and make events to let Sweden grow in power in the late XVIth-XVIIth, yes, but they need to be less powerful in the beginning, at least Denmark.

 

[Galleblære]

Sweden is NOT overpowered.

Whoa, this deserves one of the old-fashioned rolleyes:

First off, the stats presented by Mr. Ebbesen speaks for itself.
Secondly, the wast majority experience an unhistorically strong Sweden in the early period of EU2. No way Sweden would have been able to bitch-slap Denmark (without Norway) in 1500.

 

[Carolus Rex]

Who gives a rats ass about what's what, it's not gonna change, that's for sure.

 

[unmerged(11216)]

Who gives a rats ass about what's what, it's not gonna change, that's for sure.

Heh, actually I dont belive that either

 

[Carolus Rex]

Swedish programmer + decrease Swedish strength = not happening.

 

[Galleblære]

Swedish programmer + decrease Swedish strength = not happening.

Well, at least you are frank about it.

I remember reading an early AAR by Mr.T before gettin EUII. For some reason, Spain never formed (so no colonisation) and, *drumroll* Sweden was the biggest coloniser in the world. No, Mr.T was playing the Timurids, and had not affected the region at all.

 

[unmerged(5161)]

Well, Carolus Rex; you may be right.

But I think that it is reprehensible to show personal favoritism to a country in a video game simply because of your own nationality.

EDIT: Not that all the veteran MP players who post in this thread say Sweden is overpowered except the thread-starter (Fredrik-SWE) who says he has his doubts. Gee, what a coincidence...........

 

[Hive]

Well, Carolus Rex; you may be right.

But I think that it is reprehensible to show personal favoritism to a country in a video game simply because of your own nationality.

EDIT: Not that all the veteran MP players who post in this thread say Sweden is overpowered except the thread-starter (Fredrik-SWE) who says he has his doubts. Gee, what a coincidence...........

I agree. But it could be worse: Paradox could have been Irish or something. Imagine what a grossly overpowered Eire would do to the game...

 

[Carolus Rex]

I agree. But it could be worse: Paradox could have been Irish or something. Imagine what a grossly overpowered Eire would do to the game...

Nothing, the naval AI isn't good enough to make 'em a threat.

 

[Fredrik82]

EDIT: Not that all the veteran MP players who post in this thread say Sweden is overpowered except the thread-starter (Fredrik-SWE) who says he has his doubts. Gee, what a coincidence...........

What you mean with that?
Anyway, i'm fully convinced that Denmark is underpowered in the earlie part of the game, when they were the ruler in the north. I Think thats the main reason why people say that Sweden is too overpowered. And i also agree that some of the provinces in Finland shouldn't exist in a 1419 start, not as cities anyway!
However, any kind of boost on Denmark would probably make the game more unbalanced in the north, e.g annexed Sweden before Gustav Vasa, Nothern Germany would probably be danish, witch would be very ahistorical.
I think it's ok as it is, not perfect. but ok!

 

[unmerged(5161)]

My point, Fredrik, is that we as MP players, who play a lot with HUMAN Swedens, see the overwhelming potential of the country.