Sweden - state of play - 1404

[1anrs]

I decided to go down memory lane with the most enjoyable game I ever played - Sweden, and hopefully then Scandinavia. To that end I have declared an immediate war against Denmark using the Reconquest CB. I'd forgotten how damn hard Sweden is to get off the ground, this victory has taken me four attempts :rofl:

So, I have basically won as best I can without a competitive navy:

Therefore, I think my most favourable tribute would be the following, although I am very interested if anyone has any other ideas:

The advantage would be that I block off Lappland to colonise at my leisure, primarily because colonies are so expensive and Sweden already starts with more of them. The reason I abandoned one of my previous games was because I had left Skane with Denmark to keep the Reconquest CB, I had underestimated quite how much of a money drain Sweden was and now I think it is a waste of time doing that, I won't fight another war for at least 50 years I don't think. Furthermore, Sweden seems to get stab hit after stab hit so I think I can expect a very long time sitting pretty, poor, weak and doing very little (hence why high infamy probably wouldn't be a concern for me either).

I'm not really asking for help here, I can probably play a good game by myself from this point. However, I decided to post anyway as I'm interested in how other people would proceed from here. I have posted games before and people have come up with fascinating ideas that I would never ever have thought of myself

 

[jez9999]

Mightn't Novgorod colonize Lappland?

 

[1anrs]

Mightn't Novgorod colonize Lappland?

They border Kola but not Lappland, at least not yet.

 

[kingofeurope]

Just roflstomp , and become the Monoruler of Baltic Sea

 

[Pewt]

If you don't mind some AI abuse, you can abuse the naval AI to cross the straits. Tell a single regiment to move from Stockholm to Finland, and the entire Danish navy will go running after it. Then engage it with your entire fleet and use the time you buy to cross the straits and carpet-siege Denmark. Once you've done so you can annex them. No reason to take Norway: the land is too awful and you get a really nice vassalization mission once Denmark is dead. You can avoid losing any ships if you remove a single galley with your fleet and then engage with both fleets: when it comes time to retreat, first retreat with your main fleet, and then a day later retreat with the last galley (this prevents them from capturing any ships when you order the retreat).

 

[jez9999]

You can avoid losing any ships if you remove a single galley with your fleet and then engage with both fleets: when it comes time to retreat, first retreat with your main fleet, and then a day later retreat with the last galley (this prevents them from capturing any ships when you order the retreat).

You can tell your ships when to retreat?? I thought it just happened when their morale hit zero.

 

[Pewt]

You can tell your ships when to retreat?? I thought it just happened when their morale hit zero.

You can tell anyone when to retreat, you just have to wait 12 days after the battle starts.

 

[1anrs]

... if you remove a single galley with your fleet ...

Does it have to be a galley or can it be any ship? I don't think Sweden has any galleys at present.

 

[Pewt]

Does it have to be a galley or can it be any ship? I don't think Sweden has any galleys at present.

Sweden starts with an almost exclusively galley navy, so I assume they have them. Anyhow, it can be any ship, but galleys are the cheapest and thus in the event you mess up and lose the ship it's nice to have it be a galley.

 

[Pacius Ferox]

I wouldn't fight Denmark as early Sweden, nor would I let Danes grow too big by letting them conquer northern Germany. (It's a bit gamey but you don't need to fight their wars) Building up the infrastructure is the best strategy course for the early Sweden, imho. Just take it over later on when Danes end up in some fiasco...

 

[n0thin]

Usually the best way for Sweden is to just immediately annex Denmark, then PU Norway. If you can manage that, forming Scandinavia will be the fastest.

 

[1anrs]

Thanks for the advice guys, real life has interfered to a degree so am not really playing just now but will get back to it. I will look at the ship tactic and whether annexing Denmark is realistic but I seem to remember I am really getting into financial trouble so I think I might need to end the war now regardless but I will see.

I wouldn't fight Denmark as early Sweden, nor would I let Danes grow too big by letting them conquer northern Germany. (It's a bit gamey but you don't need to fight their wars) Building up the infrastructure is the best strategy course for the early Sweden, imho. Just take it over later on when Danes end up in some fiasco...

Can you actually rely on the Danes getting into a fiasco? I have always found you need to attack really early as Sweden, otherwise Norway and Denmark get too strong in relation to you. I am always then afraid that I will be sitting for 400 years unable to do anything

 

[fulic1]

Usually the best way for Sweden is to just immediately annex Denmark, then PU Norway. If you can manage that, forming Scandinavia will be the fastest.

I agree. If you want it really easy, just build troops way over your forcelimits and station them in Danish provinces and on top of the Danish stack before dowing. Then when they try to flee, prevent it with your fleet and just siege the whole country and annex. Remember to watch out for those 4k or so Holsteinian troops marching north.

 

[1anrs]

I agree. If you want it really easy, just build troops way over your forcelimits and station them in Danish provinces and on top of the Danish stack before dowing. Then when they try to flee, prevent it with your fleet and just siege the whole country and annex. Remember to watch out for those 4k or so Holsteinian troops marching north.

Thanks for the tip, but I have to confess that seems rather too gamey to me.

What I ended up doing was simply taking the tribute I outlined above as my economy was on the floor, inflation running high and I needed to end the war right there and then. I will definitely consider the advice for a future game though as I really enjoy playing Sweden but it is hard as hell at the beginning - seriously

PROGRESS UPDATE:
1420 - manage to annex Denmark after an opportunistic war, I forget how I got the opportunity but I primarily use Teutonic Order to smash up Denmark's navy. A few decades later, I get a mission to vassal Norway so I do that when the time is right too.

1430 - by this time I have successfully colonised the two areas in the north. Not only Kola (who I started with) but also Lappland. Done one at a time to reduce costs.

1455 (or before) - my ally Teutonic Order declare war on Novgorod and they take leadership. I grab one province and peace out before they do.

1463 (or before) - I take the Unam Sanctam National Idea and declare war on an ally of Novgorod (latter are Catholic). Would have been perfect except for the fact that my idiotic ally, Teutonic Order dragged me into another war involving Poland, Muscowy and Lithuania a few days later. The said idiots peace out, it is a hard war and I end up having to be happy grabbing just one province from Novgorod before my war machine collapsed. It was a close thing but the silver lining was grabbing Gotland who declared independence during that war and were then at war with me for some reason. I annex them

1471 - the end of the third war against Novgorod. It was a quick war to get a land border against TO, who I intend to back-stab. I don't want to mess around with navies and I intend to take a good part of the Baltic Sea before starting to tackle the HRE. I also force-vassal Tver.

1487 - In the meantime, I demanded annexation from Norway and they accepted. Several years before this year, the TO idiots drag me into a war against France! Luckily France attacked them more than me but now I had two reasons for dissolving my alliance with TO. (1) Rage and (2) the said land acquisition war to start occupying the whole of the Baltic Sea. I was originally going to wait for the Reformation to attack them with the heretic CB but their army was practically non-existant after their war with France, I take the stab hit as it is too good an opportunity to miss. I win the war:

Now I am interested in what other people think here. This is the peace deal I propose to do:

I want to give Tver that province at the right (Kholm) as I want them to be a strong vassal for helping later on. I also want to free and eventually vassal Pskov. I also thought of grabbing Danzig for a base on the continent and population. The other provinces are simply expanding on what I already have and I have the magistrates ready to take them out of the HRE. Thoughts?

 

[Pacius Ferox]

I personally favor the historical dominium maris Baltici -strategy as Sweden, even if it's a more difficult aproach. That means no Scandinavia, but a strong, and natural alliance of the Nordic countries with Norway preferably as your vassal, and not Danes'. It means a bigger allied navy and a better infra on your side early on, I mean.

But in that situation, just keep there as many Little Russias as possible, with some dividetimpera as practice of course.

 

[Teutonizer]

Eh, that whole thing makes me want to return to EU3 again (last time I played it is four days ago :rofl:, now I'm trying to learn EU4), but you've made good progress
Just curious, Orkney and Iceland, have you own them at that time? Could go to establish Vinland again if so