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Sweden and Venice

Someone mentioned in OT that Sweden besiged Venice once. They did not respond when I followed up with a question. When was it if it ever did happen?
 

Ape

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Re: Sweden and Venice

Originally posted by CoolElephant
Someone mentioned in OT that Sweden besiged Venice once. They did not respond when I followed up with a question. When was it if it ever did happen?
AFAIK Swedish troops never besieged Venice, you sure it wasnt Swiss troops?
 

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Excuse me, I guess it was Vienna not Venice.

Originally posted by Blade!

The EU2 book at least gives some interesting info you would never otherwise learn in the US school system... who even knew Sweden had a King or sieged Viennaa

But the Swedish king lifted the siege, yes?
 

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Originally posted by The Brain
Torstensson threatened Vienna during the Thirty Years War but AFAIK he never actually laid siege to it.
Yup, right after the battle of Jankov, the defence of Vienna was in shambles, and all he had to do was march on to the city, but he got diverted for some reason.
Vienna AFAIK never fell for an invader until Napoleon took it after Austerlitz.
 

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Originally posted by The Brain
Torstensson threatened Vienna during the Thirty Years War but AFAIK he never actually laid siege to it.

It was Prag they sieged and partly conqured, they would have got if not the pesky peace had interferad
 

Styrbiorn

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Torstensson stood at the gates of the undefended Vienna after the victory at Jankau in 1645. However he did not attempt to take the city but turned towards Moravia instead.
 

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Originally posted by Styrbiorn
Torstensson stood at the gates of the undefended Vienna after the victory at Jankau in 1645. However he did not attempt to take the city but turned towards Moravia instead.
Well, I've decided to do a history report on this, any information someone could direct me to would be much appriciated. :)
 

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Originally posted by Styrbiorn
Torstensson stood at the gates of the undefended Vienna after the victory at Jankau in 1645. However he did not attempt to take the city but turned towards Moravia instead.

I guess he had logistical problems. His army in deep in enemy territory so to provide new recruits could be pretty hard and probably local population wasn´t very friendly. Torstensson´s army was probably better supplied in Moravia because it closer to friendly northern Germany countries and Baltic ports.
 

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Originally posted by CoolElephant
Well, I've decided to do a history report on this, any information someone could direct me to would be much appriciated. :)

From the Swedish perspective this is one ignored part of Swedish history. I don't know about the Germans and Austrians but in Sweden this incident is mostly something that is mentioned in passing. I don't remember how much Peter Englund writes about this in his book that covers the Thirty Years War period, and whether the book is available in English. The Swedish General Staff has written in great detail about the Swedish campaigns in the Thirty Years War but that stuff isn't exactly accessible (being in Swedish and out of print and all, written almost 100 years ago).

Does some other Swede have any ideas?
 

Kitschum

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Like people have said, after the battle of Jankau, Torstensson turned to Moravia and unsuccesfully sieged Brünn (Brno) for five months. After having abandoned it in August 1645 he was checked at the Danube by Leopold Wilhelm and retreated to Bohemia. Then his illness seems to have forced him to return home. He was succeeded by Wrangel. See this biography of him (in Swedish) for instance. It says that he was captured after the defeat at Nuremberg (in 1632) and thrown in prison which destroyed his health, even though he was released soon after.

This other biography of him (in German) claims that the reason Torstensson didn't march on Vienna was the lack of supplies ("the poverty of Bohemia meant that there was wine, but no bread for the Swedish conquerors"), along with the unreliability of the Prince of Siebenbürgen (Rakoczy), on whose help the Swedes had counted, and the fierce resistance encountered at Brünn.

So in the end it appears that stretched supply lines made it impossible to exploit the advantage immediately, and when that problem was presumably remedied in the summer the opportunity wasn't there anymore. :)
 

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Lt. General
Jun 5, 2001
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It seems there is one book translated into english. I'm gonna try to get it at the Library of Congress


Iauthor/creator: Feil, Joseph
title: Torstenson before Vienna. : Die Schweden in Oesterreich 1645-1646. Ein Beitrag zur Geschichte des dreissigjahrigen Krieges von Joseph Feil. A translation, with notes by J. Watts de Peyster, June, 1885.
publisher: New York
publication year: 1885.
series: Omsl.:Torstenson:" a hero of the seventeenth century". Torstenson before Vienna; or the Swedes in Austria in 1645-1646. With a biographical sketch of Field-Marshal Generalissimus Leonard Torstenson by J.Watts de Peyster.
 
Last edited:

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Lt. General
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Here it is... if you have any questions just ask, as I read more than i have writen of here.

In the very misery of the Thirty Years War in Germany, there was one general who contributed more to its end than any other. His name was Lennart Torstensson. He was a Swede, fighting on the side of the Protestants against the Archduke of Austria and his allies.
Generalissimo Field Marshall Governor-General of Pomerania, “The Lion-Strong Son of the Stone of the Thunder God,” (Feil, 1) Count Lennart Torstensson, sometimes spelled Lennard Torstensohn, was a very seasoned soldier by 1645. He was a favorite pupil of the past Swedish King Gustavus Adolphus, age forty-two, a general of talent involved already in many battles from three wars, and had already won a major battle against the Austro-Hungarians after his appointment to commander-in-chief of Swedish forces by the Chancellor-Regent Axel Oxenstierna. This major victory under his command is referred to as the Second Battle of Leipzig (Liepzic) or the Second Battle of Brittenfield, because in the same place eleven years beforehand Gustavus Adolphus had won a victory for Sweden there in the same war. (Schiller, 331)
Torstensson had bad health ever since he was captured earlier in the war; suffering mainly from Gravel and Gout. He was carried only in a litter or on horseback. (Feil, 2) “He lay often for weeks in his be, his hands knotted with gout, unable even to sign an order” (Parker, 200). He was not religiously superstitious (Feil, 9). He was, “a harsh, commanding man…he neither cared for nor sought popularity; his men hated him, and he ruled them by terror… the cursed his hangings and shooting and floggings, but they did not rise against him” (Wedgwood 447-8). But in fact during the Thirty Years’ War, the soldier was king. The horrors of that war were from their hands, and J. Watts de Peyster alleges that his discipline to his troops made him the most humane general towards civilians of the war. Torstensson was allegedly very handsome despite his illness, and though Joseph Feil describes many atrocities committed by his Swedes, he admits Torstensson was a perfect gentleman to those of his class. Peyster says that Feil is biased against Torstensson because he is an Austrian.
According to Wedgwood in late February 1645 Torstensson crossed the Elbe and was marching towards Prague, and gave battle at Jankau (sometimes spelled Jankov, Jancowitz) against a mixed force of Austrians and Bavarians who cut him off. He says that Torstensson had the advantage from the start of the battle because he was in uneven and thickly wooded ground that made the battle a series of skirmishes that allowed Torstensson to nullify the numerical superiority of his opponents. He said Torstensson first outmaneuvered Goetz’s cavalry, killing him, and then he managed to outnumber the Bavarian Mercy and Werth and Austria’s Hatzfeld, destroying their forces and capturing Hatzfeld. (483). Geoffrey Parker insists that this battle at Jankau on the 6th of March 1645 was decided because Torstensson had sixty field guns against an enemy of 26 guns, and that there was only preliminary skirmishing, followed by a prolonged pitched battle. (176) Schiller, who sounds like a German nationalist, says that the battle was on the 24th of February and that only the left cavalry wing of the “Imperialists” was stuck in thickets and marshes, enabling Torstensson to route Goetz, and that the eight hour battle was won because the Swedish took the heights and resisted a desperate attack by enemy cavalry, which started the battle outnumbering the Swedish cavalry by 3,000. (333-4) And yet Feil, the so-called biased Austrian, said that Torstensson’s army was more German than Swedish, and that in this battle each side launched three cavalry attacks, Torstensson himself in the saddle, and that the Swedes simply were victorious in the end. (34-8) “At [Jankau] , south-east of Prague, Torstensson beat the Imperial army decisively. It did not really recover from this blow until the end of the war.” (Asch, 134)
The way was now open for Torstensson, with the French attacking the Bavarians at his flank; he was free to march on Vienna. The Emperor fled there to prepare defenses. Torstensson set up the Swedish forces on the other side of the Danube and bombarded the city, as the Bohemians had done at the beginning of the war. Torstensson now hoped that the Transylvanian Magyar-Hungarian Prince Ragotzsky who may have had up to 40,000 men and had received money from France would come to Torstensson’s aid and assault Vienna. Torstensson tried to siege the city of Brunn (Breig), in order to reach him, for five months, but could not take it, and he withdrew most of his forces, leaving a garrison in the outskirts of Vienna. Schiller suggests that Prince Ragotzsky would not aid Torstensson because he was bribed by the Emperor to have the protestant nobility granted toleration and territory if they would not revolt. However, Parker says that Ragotzsky would have attacked had not the Sultan declared war on Venice that spring and subsequently stopped funding Ragotzsky. (176). Torstensson’s army was quite ravished with disease and famine and could not maintain itself in what was now poor Bohemia, and the French had been defeated in Bavaria, so he was vulnerable. Torstensson withdrew, doing all he could for the honor of the eighteen-year-old Queen Christina. “Early in 1646 the Swedish government had yielded at last to the plea of Torstensson for recall on the score of ill-health.” (Parker, 201)
Not long after this was the war brought to an end at the peace Westphalia on the twenty-fourth of October 1646. The ability of Torstensson to humble the Imperialists, and to bring the realization to the front that they could not win the war with great advantages most likely accelerated the peace process. Likewise, it might be fortunate that Vienna was never taken, as it might have made the Swedish proud and greedy enough to prolong the war until they could have a favorable peace settlement.




Bibiliography
1. Asch, Ronald G. The Thirty Years War: Holy Roman Empire and Europe. New York, St. Martin’s Press, 1997.
2. Feil, Joseph. :" A Hero of the Seventeenth Century": Torstenson before Vienna; or the Swedes in Austria in 1645-1646, with notes by J. Watts de Peyster. New York, 1885.
3. Parker, Geoffrey. The Thirty Years War. Boston, Mass., Routledge & Kegan Paul plc, 1984.
4. Schiller. Schiller’s Historical Works: Thirty Years War and Revolt of the Netherlands. London, George Bell & Sons, 1877.
5. Wedgwood, C. V. The Thirty Years War. London, Jonathan Cape Ltd., 1938.
 

Arilou

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AFAIK the Peace was signed in 1648.