Swear Fealty = Major Exploit

[Resurr3ction]

How to become king in no time and cost-free:

1) Start as Bohemia
2) Join independence faction and wait about a year when the faction either starts massive rebellion which it easily wins or you get independence via ultimatum.
3) Join Poland
4) Pause once you join. Start faction to install your wife to the throne, send ultimatum right away and ask half the Poland to join your war against the king that follows -> easy victory.

Now you just need to change to elective in Bohemia and choose your second son as your heir (who is heir of your wife) and wait to die.

But you can do more!

5) Get independence on your wife.
6 or 7) Kill David, the heir to Hungary.
7 or 6) Join Hungary.
8) Start faction to install your first son to the throne and send ultimatum right away. Ask half Hungary to join you for easy victory.
9) Kill your son becoming king of Hungary.

Now wait again to die so your son inherits both Poland and Hungary and can form Bohemia unless you manage it in your lifetime.


Long story short, previously it took at least decades to form central European empire. Now it takes literally just few years!

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Here's what's wrong:

In EU3 AI takes into consideration your power and you won't be able to join HRE if you are too powerful which is very close mechanic to swearing fealty in CK2. In CK2 however AI just sees your land as wonderful addition the more powerful you are. But since Bohemia is huge double-duchy+1province at the start you immidiately become major power inside both Poland and Hungary easily getting over 100 % faction power alone. And since in all kingdoms half of it hates the ruler you can ask many people to join your war even though they are not part of your faction.

What should be fixed:

1) Swearing fealty should be available only to your de iure liege as is the case for kingdoms.
2) Being able to ask other vassals to join your faction war even though they were not part of your faction seems a bit OP to me.

 

[Zireael]

Well, a threat system such as in EU 3 would probably solve the problem.

 

[redmoretrout]

The game really doesn't need to restrict the player's options and choices anymore than it already does. You formed an empire through intrigue and manipulation, which is what the game is all about. How is that even an exploit?

 

[grommile]

Has Bohemia ever not been "easy mode"?

 

[DanubianCossak]

Has Bohemia ever not been "easy mode"?

After Le Blob, aka BBB, Bohemia is the most notorious country in EU3, of like all times. Specially since they introduced those half finished hordes *ugh*.

 

[Ols]

Has Bohemia ever not been "easy mode"?

Czech Mate, Europe.

 

[NosgothKingdom]

Hahaha, Le Blob was awesome.
Considering how Czech people don't really need vowels (they are indeed overrated, ain't they?), I'd call them Blb. And we cannot forget El Blobo and Das Blobheit.

Edit: Die* Blobheit or Das Blobl to make it cute.

 

[unmerged(509501)]

Czech Mate, Europe.

Best post of the week

 

[Resurr3ction]

The game really doesn't need to restrict the player's options and choices anymore than it already does. You formed an empire through intrigue and manipulation, which is what the game is all about. How is that even an exploit?

It's not about restrictions but common sense. If you are a king would you allow some duke to join your country as your *vassal* if he was half your kingdom's size on his own?? What would you expect would happen if you did allow him? The threat system in EU3 was elegant and very sensible solution to the same problem and I am just surprised that not only it's not in CK2 at all but it even works the other way around! (bigger you are more they want you) I would personally consider it a bug even or at the very least major exploit.

 

[keynes2.0]

It's a very narrow exploit and one that would be hard to "fix" without collateral damage. There are legitimate reasons to swear fealty to a realm that isn't much bigger then you; for instance if your son inherits the realm and you want to prop him up. Until we develop thinking AI you are just going to have to accept that this exploit exists. If you don't like it... don't use it.

 

[unmerged(424234)]

Now you just need to change to elective in Bohemia and choose your second son as your heir (who is heir of your wife) and wait to die.

You call this in no time? It's faster to invite claimants and push their claims one after one than to wait until your character dies.

 

[MasterOfGrey]

Czech Mate, Europe.

Well played.

But seriously, if your de jure liege exists then you should only be able to swear fealty to him, but if he doesn't the restriction should not apply, since bohemia is its own de jure liege just lacking a title it would still be able to do this.

 

[Zireael]

hahaha, le blob was awesome.
Considering how czech people don't really need vowels (they are indeed overrated, ain't they?), i'd call them blb. And we cannot forget el blobo and das blobheit.

lol.

 

[Martinus]

It's hardly an exploit - you are just utilising the fact that Premyslids are very interconnected with other ruling families of Central and Eastern Europe. By the same token, you could call a Norman invasion of England an exploit, as you have a French Duchy grabbing a huge kingdom.

By the way, you could have extended this. If, after getting both Poland and Hungary, you have Kingdom of Bohemia as your primary title, I think you could still swear fealty to the Holy Roman Emperor - and become the most powerful force in the HRE.

 

[Martinus]

Incidentally, does anyone else think that Bohemia-Poland-Hungary should have its own creatable empire? Both Poland and Hungary have no de jure empire over them.

 

[Roguedemon]

Well played.

But seriously, if your de jure liege exists then you should only be able to swear fealty to him, but if he doesn't the restriction should not apply, since bohemia is its own de jure liege just lacking a title it would still be able to do this.

With all due respect, I have to disagree - what if you are playing a nation like napoli or the isles, whos dejure leige is not going to be able to represent their interests particularly well, but has other nearby nations (in these cases byzantium and norway) who make more sense to swear fealty to. Also, the swear fealty options allows you to switch sides now and then, which is always good fun.

 

[NoobRage]

Incidentally, does anyone else think that Bohemia-Poland-Hungary should have its own creatable empire? Both Poland and Hungary have no de jure empire over them.

No. Bohemia was historically part of the HRE (they even went on to dominate it for some time) and there was no historical empire over that land. Only the Jagellonian Empire, which was simply a collection of the family`s lands and not an entity.

 

[Lwantssugar]

Yeah, good luck doing that anywhere outside of Poland/Bohemia/Hungary, Russia, or Catholic Spain. It's possible there since there's many rulers of the same dynasty in close proximity, few other regions have that many landed characters of the same family

 

[Kamuflaro]

How about you take your super douchy, swear fealty, adopt culture, fabricate and press claim on kingdom, revoke douchies(longest part), destroy kingdom, repeat?

 

[Sian]

How about you take your super douchy, swear fealty, adopt culture, fabricate and press claim on kingdom, revoke douchies(longest part), destroy kingdom, repeat?

can't destroy primary title, which is always one of the top one