Swamped

[dsteve3]

Every game I've played ends with my clan getting swamped by the #1 or #2 clan in the game.

I have no idea how to work around this.

Diplomacy works at a snails pace. I can bribe ONCE for a whole 10 points. My Master Of Ceremonies can't possibly raise their opinion as fast as it falls. Any headway at all disappears once my Clan Leader dies - which is often.

I don't understand this idea that I can be constantly at war. War is debt - to take on serious opponents means running in the red. This means I can't develop my infrastructure.

Building infrastructure is very slow. Trying to get to the point where I can build a few guilds takes decades.

Ninjas are very ineffective. They are rarely successful and usually attract more bad attention than accomplish goals. Sow Disent is also gruellingly slow. The chances of actually getting another Leader's vassal to turn is extremely low.

I have started at least eight new games and I can't get past the mid-point.

I'm very carefull about the stats on my spouses, and playing my strengths. I watch for opennings and use all my EU tactics to keep as many troops alive as possible.

But the fortresses in this game are far more fragile than in EU. A stack of 20k units is virtually guaranteed to steam-roll a full-tier fortress in a single assault. Once mega-stacks start rolling in, the game is over.

I don't understand how to actually WIN this game. I don't understand how anyone can apply any real strategy whent he game blows by in about three hours. There's no time for diplomacy to work, for intrigue to work, and I don't understand how I'm supposed to finance War From Beginning To End.

I've read all the links in http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?560738-Sengoku-Guides-From-Beginner-to-Advanced but they seem a bit slim.

What am I missing?

 

[Blastaz]

This isn't EU3. Those aren't the strategies you are looking for.

Its a game in Japan so it has the problem that if you pick a clan in the middle of Japan you are open to being rushed on two flanks which is often game over. The AI is also very VERY vicious and will jump on and dog pile any sign of weakness. This is in any game of Japan where the map is so linear. Pick the ouchi/yamana and then conquer west when the Onin war is over so you have a secure base.

Sieges do get assaulted if the army is big enough. So use this. Don't split your forces up to siege. Keep them together and assault.

Don't try and build up all your provinces. Just concentrate on two and swap the rest for fresh conquests. Prioritise castle lvl 3 then villages. 1/2 province kokujin will develop their provinces faster than you can, just take them from them when their built, there are no 'cores' in this game.

War isn't debt, its about cost. Try and keep your army as small as possible try and use your vassals retinues and guide them where to go with small stacks of levies so that you are in charge of the siege. Wars between matched clans are about attrition, of money and levies. make sure your not wasting either. If you're fighting someone bigger than you either a) outsiege him the ai can be pretty dumb or b) concentrate your forces (avoiding attrition) and defeat his armies piecemeal.

Ninjas and diplomacy and plots are quite weak atm, you can't relly on them the sword is mightier than the pen. Best use of ninjas are to dishonour the clan leader and heir of your nearest big rival. (not the person you are fighting but the one you will be fighting when you have both grown)

Ignore spouse stats just marry them young.

 

[unmerged(197434)]

if you are small you must start wooing the vassals of the biggest clans as soon as possible, you need them to fracture. You must hold off on gobbling neighbors too quickly or no one will plot with you.

Use Ninja to dishonor leaders, have one province with the ninja bonuses. make marriages with likely friends, use your master of ceremonies to improve villages not relations, its too slow and uncertain. Only bribe if you already have a good relationship and the the bribe's master is low on honor AND you plan to invite him to a plot you will execute quite soon.

Have patience, wait and concentrate on infrastructure. If you start out at war try consider splitting your clan and you'll either be at civil war (only one opponent) or you'll go peacefully and be at peace from then on. If you are a clan leader, consider subjugation to a strong clan and then if accepted plan to break away later when you have more castles. Plot with enemies of the clan.

Just have fun and realize that being conquered you can still have a lot of fun. Plotting should get better and a little easier in the new patch, so that's something. I agree ninja need a lot of tweaks too but they are still useful in certain situtions.

 

[oddible]

If you are starting as a smaller clan, there is a bit of luck in the beginning. Remember that there are more ways than just using your Master's and gift to improve relations and enact diplomacy. As far as province upgrades go, just because you CAN hold 5 kori doesn't mean you should, especially in the early game - let your vassals upgrade your provinces! You only have 2 Masters.

 

[celt43]

I agree... "Building infrastructure is very slow". Ninjas are mostly ineffective". Im in the same situation, I cannot seem to get any further with the game. No one will plot with me at all, not have I been invited to one. The game needs a family tree page as I get lost trying to keep track of who is in my family. LOL Im still learning the game and I hope the new patch soon will make my learning a bit easier. To be honest I bought all my (first) paradox games within the last month, Sengoku, Rome Vae Victis, EU3 Chronicles. I'm not touching the other games until I master sengoku.

 

[cccino]

Diplomacy is the most important skill in my opinion. With low diplomacy you are vunerable to plots, with high diplomacy it is easier to convince people to join your plots, particularly if the target has low diplomacy. Basically to get a plot together you need people to like you & hate the target. You also need to be relatively strong and to have high honour. Sometimes it takes a while to get all those ducks in a row. Sometimes you need to assassinate a popular (high diplo high honour) enemy leader so you can plot against his unlikeable heir. Once you get one person to join you it is easier to gain a second, and so on.

Militarily, raising all your levies at once isn't necessary the best thing to do. 1- it costs a lot of money. 2- levies defend the province in a siege. When defending, don't raise levies in important provinces - so they can hold out longer, or at least cost the enemies a lot more casualties to assault. When attacking, target the undefended/levied provinces first, and assault them. Don't assault the unlevied provinces until you get a breach.

 

[dsteve3]

Thank you for all the advice - the game I'm running now seems to be going a bit more smoothly.

The one mistake I did catch was attacking ALL the smaller clans around me. This just made me a bigger target. So, instead, I left a few small clans (they quickly asked for hostages) and went after a local clan that was only a bit smaller than my own.

This worked out great ... so far.

I also was fortunate enough to have been blessed with many daughters, which I have used to significantly improve relations with a distant, mid-sized clan. hopefully I'll be able to maintain that.

I didn't realise that the levies cost the defensive value of the province - I'll have to look at their manpower the next time. The other side of that argument is the stacking limit. The enemy province adjacent to mine was 15k, but the province next farther away was only 5k. After I captured that first province, the latter changed to 15k - so distance from my boarder directly affects stacking limits.

The clan I started with is Shimazu, which isn't that small - but I'll keep those suggestions in mind as I move forward.

 

[Captain Gars]

Thank you for all the advice - the game I'm running now seems to be going a bit more smoothly.

The one mistake I did catch was attacking ALL the smaller clans around me. This just made me a bigger target. So, instead, I left a few small clans (they quickly asked for hostages) and went after a local clan that was only a bit smaller than my own.

This worked out great ... so far.

I also was fortunate enough to have been blessed with many daughters, which I have used to significantly improve relations with a distant, mid-sized clan. hopefully I'll be able to maintain that.

I didn't realise that the levies cost the defensive value of the province - I'll have to look at their manpower the next time. The other side of that argument is the stacking limit. The enemy province adjacent to mine was 15k, but the province next farther away was only 5k. After I captured that first province, the latter changed to 15k - so distance from my boarder directly affects stacking limits.

The clan I started with is Shimazu, which isn't that small - but I'll keep those suggestions in mind as I move forward.

Especially in the beginning when you only have level 1 castles, raising your levy will strip the garrison of 75% of its strength, so that's an important thing to have in mind. Marriages are really important, as is exchanging hostages. And if starting as the local big guy - as Shimazu does - plotting against your immediate neighbours will be hard since you will likely be their biggest threat.

 

[Nefaro]

Ignore spouse stats just marry them young.

I don't ignore spouse stats. You don't want to marry a hunchbacked leper, for example, as her fertility takes a huge penalty (for leper) and even on the off chance they had a child, there's a chance he'd inherit her traits. I know that hunchback is a trait that can be inherited, not sure about leper. There are others, too. So check traits on your wives and make sure you're arranging a marriage to one that is currently likely to have children, preferably with no 'bad' traits they can pass on.

You should also make sure that your final wife's stats are pretty high, and complimentary, to any character who is (or will be) a land owner since they give half their stats as a bonus to their husband. Since wives can occasionally die, I tend to try keeping the stats fairly high on all wives or at least the last two. I've witnessed some points in the game where good wives were hard to find so it doesn't hurt having a backup for your primary. This strategy will change with the new update, however, as it will take the best stat from all your wives, so it should increase your pickiness.

 

[Enravota]

I don't ignore spouse stats. You don't want to marry a hunchbacked leper, for example, as her fertility takes a huge penalty (for leper) and even on the off chance they had a child, there's a chance he'd inherit her traits. I know that hunchback is a trait that can be inherited, not sure about leper. There are others, too. So check traits on your wives and make sure you're arranging a marriage to one that is currently likely to have children, preferably with no 'bad' traits they can pass on.

The inheritable traits are clubfooted, harelip, hunchback, lisp, stutter, fair, ugly, genius, quick, slow, imbecile and inbred.

 

[SAS]

I have found this game is like chess. But once the major wars start you had better plan your attack well or you will be beaten, badly.

 

[celt43]

The inheritable traits are clubfooted, harelip, hunchback, lisp, stutter, fair, ugly, genius, quick, slow, imbecile and inbred.

Sounds like the women I meet. LOL Sorry I could not resist.

 

[Nefaro]

Sounds like the women I meet. LOL Sorry I could not resist.

I didn't see Sociopath in there.

 

[safferli]

Just a friendly reminder to go back to topic before things get ugly/out of hand

 

[GShock]

The main problem with economy is that you can keep armies up for very long because their cost of upkeep is relatively low and does not hit your production levels.
I think we could improve something here and make it a bit more realistic so that you really can't stay in a permanent status of war.

I also agree with the fact the losses on the attacker are relatively low when fighting against a fully garrisoned fortress. More losses = less steamroll and less steamroll = less blob and more time to work diplomacy out.
Nothing to do at present time about the lenght of the actions of masters of the arts but I think the patch already addressed this. Come on, it's friday... let monday come.