Surviving the Winter war as Finland?

[Illumini]

I've tried to play Finland in the '36 campaign several times, and I just can't stop the Soviet hordes from overrunning me and cutting my country in half. I've tried joining the allies early, getting lots of blueprints and free resources, and I've even traded for a couple of units to save IC and some manpower.

I played the battlescenario and totally kicked the soviet's ass, but in the scenario, you've got like 40 divisions, in the scenario it is more like 20 because of manpower and IC-problems.

I've gone for an all ground-force, no airforce and no navy at all.

I usually leave the allies right before Danzig, so I don't have to garrison my beaches against germany, and because it can be no good if the allies go to war with USSR in '39 (got taken by surprise when 10 german and hungarian divisions landed and took Helsinki :wacko:

And another question, what does it take to get 2 tech-teams instead of one?
Do I need 20 base IC?

 

[unmerged(88257)]

You accept the peace when they offer it you, then join Germany and take it all back+interest in Barbarossa.

 

[Illumini]

You accept the peace when they offer it you, then join Germany and take it all back+interest in Barbarossa.

So you're saying it is not possible to hold against the soviet onslaught? Come on, there must be another way? Is there a 'soviet backs down event?'

In my newest game, I've got 31 divisions, mostly infantry, some militia, but the damn soviets still outnumber me pretty much 3:1, I can hold the south, but the soviets always attack at the middle with 20+ divisions, making counter-attacks futile, and cutting my country in half.

 

[UberFelix]

I've tried to play Finland in the '36 campaign several times, and I just can't stop the Soviet hordes from overrunning me and cutting my country in half. I've tried joining the allies early, getting lots of blueprints and free resources, and I've even traded for a couple of units to save IC and some manpower.

I played the battlescenario and totally kicked the soviet's ass, but in the scenario, you've got like 40 divisions, in the scenario it is more like 20 because of manpower and IC-problems.

I've gone for an all ground-force, no airforce and no navy at all.

I usually leave the allies right before Danzig, so I don't have to garrison my beaches against germany, and because it can be no good if the allies go to war with USSR in '39 (got taken by surprise when 10 german and hungarian divisions landed and took Helsinki :wacko:

And another question, what does it take to get 2 tech-teams instead of one?
Do I need 20 base IC?

I think this is correct.
1-19 IC = 1 Tech team
20 IC = 2 Tech
40 IC = 3 Tech
60 IC = 4 Tech
80 IC = 5 Tech

Within the HOI framework, what you seek is impossible. In real life, if the Finns had started in 1936 to prepare for a Soviet invasion, they would have fared even better. My suggestion if you feel the HOI does not reflect the Finns properly....then mod Finland.

You could:
*Give their starting troops more experience (0-100)
*Mod their tech teams (increase level and add attributes like 'electronics')
*Mod the starting tech for Finland
*Mod their leaders so that they have Off/Def/Winter/Commando abilities.
*Mod the tech levels of starting units (from 1918 Inf to 1941 Inf).

In the battles in the Finnish front, no tanks were deployed above the artic circle.....but HOI does not take in account the effects of this terrain. This is just one factor of many that makes Finland weaker against the Soviets in HOI2. Also one poster here said the Finnish cruisers had 10" guns which gave them significantly more fire power than is shown in HOI2. HOI is a great WW2 sim but it is not 100% realistic.

I like your strategy of allying with the Brits to get the tech freebies and other goodies. In real life, this would have been the perfect Finn strategy, ally with the Brits while Germany was weak...then jump ship in Sep 1939.

 

[unmerged(71736)]

This is how you survive the winterwar with Finland.
1 Start from 36
2 Start build forts in two provinces, this will cost you 10 IC.
3. Start for example to build forts in the two provinces above the province closest to Leningrad, make a run of 10 fortress.. This province has a level 3 fortress and the russians wont attack there (at least they have never done it in my games)
4. Research as soon as possible advanced construction, the historical year is 1938, also pick a minister which gives you fortifications building bonus. This tech will give you a huge bonus and your fortress will be built ready long before the winterwar starts.
5. When the two forts are finished, start build in the two upper provinces. Try also to build som inf, for example a series of 1*6 or something. When your fortress have reached the level of 10 the computer wont attack them. By this method you are safe from the huge Soviet army. If you wait long enough the Su and Germany will dow and you can join the axis.

 

[Zuckergußgebäck]

#########################################################################
#  The Finnish Winter War - Finns occupy Leningrad and Murmansk
#########################################################################
event = {
	id = 3309
	random = no
	country = FIN

	trigger = {
                event = 2621
                war = { country = FIN country = SOV}
                control = { province = 131 data = FIN }
                control = { province = 130 data = FIN }
                control = { province = 132 data = FIN }
                control = { province = 137 data = FIN }
                control = { province = 136 data = FIN }
                control = { province = 148 data = FIN }
                control = { province = 138 data = FIN }
                control = { province = 139 data = FIN }
                control = { province = 147 data = FIN }
                control = { province = 149 data = FIN }
                control = { province = 140 data = FIN }
                control = { province = 143 data = FIN }
                control = { province = 144 data = FIN }
                control = { province = 146 data = FIN }
                control = { province = 103 data = FIN }
                control = { province = 141 data = FIN }
                control = { province = 142 data = FIN }
                control = { province = 145 data = FIN } # Finland is free
                control = { province = 187 data = FIN } # Finns occupy Leningrad
                control = { province = 133 data = FIN } # Finns occupy Murmansk
                NOT = {
                    event = 2628 # to ensure that this doesn´t trigger during the continuation war
                }
		}

	name = "Victory at last!"
	desc = "The USSR was hit harder by the officer purge than anyone could imagine. The finns struck hard at the invading soviet armies and managed to occupy Leningrad and Murmansk. The time seems ripe to ask Stalin for peace - what should our terms be?"
        style = 0
	picture = "finland_sweden"

	date = { day = 13 month = november year = 1939 }
	offset = 5
	deathdate = { day = 1 month = january year = 1970 }

	action_a = {
		name = "Let's be sensible - demand East Karelia"
		ai_chance = 49
		command = { type = dissent value = -10 } #Finland has stood against the largest country on earth
                command = { type = trigger which = 3310 }
	}
	action_b = {
		name = "Finland does not wage wars for territorial gains"
		ai_chance = 49
		command = { type = dissent value = -10 } #Finland has stood against the largest country on earth
                command = { type = trigger which = 3311 }
	}
        action_c = {
		name = "We want a Greater Finland - demand all of Karelia, Kola and Leningrad"
		ai_chance = 1
		command = { type = dissent value = -10 } #Finland has stood against the largest country on earth
                command = { type = trigger which = 3312 }
                command = { type = relation which = SWE value = -50 }
                command = { type = relation which = NOR value = -50 }
	}
        action_d = {
		name = "More russian blood must flow before we are ready for peace!"
		ai_chance = 1
		command = { type = dissent value = 10 } # Are they stupid?
                command = { type = relation which = GER value = -50 } # -"-
                command = { type = relation which = SWE value = -50 } # -"-
                command = { type = domestic which = defense_lobby value = 2 } #More militaristic
	}
}

#########################################################################
#  The Finnish Winter War - Finns demand east Karelia
#########################################################################
event = {
	id = 3310
	random = no
	country = SOV

	name = "Put an end to the winter war?"
	desc = "The USSR was hit harder by the officer purge than anyone could imagine. The finns struck hard at the invading soviet armies and managed to occupy Leningrad and Murmansk. The finns have approached Stalin, demanding East Karelia as spoils of war."
        style = 0
	picture = "finland_sweden"

	action_a = {
		name = "Let's end it before it becomes too much for us to handle"
		ai_chance = 60
		command = { type = dissent value = 5 }
                command = { type = peace which = FIN }
                command = { type = secedeprovince which = FIN value = 152 }
                command = { type = removecore which = 145 }
                command = { type = removecore which = 146 }
                command = { type = removecore which = 132 }
	}
	action_b = {
		name = "We can still win it"
		ai_chance = 40
		command = { type = dissent value = 20 }
	}
}

#########################################################################
#  The Finnish Winter War - Finns want a status quo
#########################################################################
event = {
	id = 3311
	random = no
	country = SOV

	name = "Put an end to the winter war?"
	desc = "The USSR was hit harder by the officer purge than anyone could imagine. The finns struck hard at the invading soviet armies and managed to occupy Leningrad and Murmansk. The finns have approached Stalin, demanding that the USSR shall make no further claims on finnish territory."
        style = 0
	picture = "finland_sweden"

	action_a = {
		name = "Let's end it before it becomes too much for us to handle"
                ai_chance = 99
		command = { type = dissent value = 5 }
                command = { type = peace which = FIN }
                command = { type = removecore which = 145 }
                command = { type = removecore which = 146 }
                command = { type = removecore which = 132 }
	}
	action_b = {
		name = "We can still win it"
                ai_chance = 1
		command = { type = dissent value = 20 }
	}
}

#########################################################################
#  The Finnish Winter War - Finns want a Greater Finland
#########################################################################
event = {
	id = 3312
	random = no
	country = SOV

	name = "Put an end to the winter war?"
	desc = "The USSR was hit harder by the officer purge than anyone could imagine. The finns struck hard at the invading soviet armies and managed to occupy Leningrad and Murmansk. The finns have approached Stalin, demanding that the USSR shall secede vast tracts of territory as spoils of war."
        style = 0
	picture = "finland_sweden"

	action_a = {
		name = "Outrageous!"
		command = { type = dissent value = 5 }
	}
	action_b = {
		name = "Cave in"
		command = { type = dissent value = 50 }
                command = { type = peace which = FIN }
                command = { type = secedeprovince which = FIN value = 133 }
                command = { type = secedeprovince which = FIN value = 134 }
                command = { type = secedeprovince which = FIN value = 135 }
                command = { type = secedeprovince which = FIN value = 150 }
                command = { type = secedeprovince which = FIN value = 151 }
                command = { type = secedeprovince which = FIN value = 152 }
                command = { type = secedeprovince which = FIN value = 187 }
                command = { type = removecore which = 145 }
                command = { type = removecore which = 146 }
                command = { type = removecore which = 132 }
	}
}

Add in Finland.txt. Be aware that they uses swedish event ids, so may want to change them.

 

[Illumini]

Thanks for the ideas, and I really like the event mods, making it at least possible for the finns to win the war. I feel it seems pretty realistic too, if the finns actually managed to take Leningrad and Murmansk the russians would probably try to make peace.

 

[unmerged(90569)]

What IDs should be used? Finnish ones or imaginary ones?

 

[Zuckergußgebäck]

I suggest adding it to the finnish event file and add IDs from 3204 onwards.