Surviving Nubia ?

[BigHamster]

Guys have anyone made it with Nubia after last patch ?
Tryed about 20-30 attemps to survive with it, looks like it is now ultimate challenge
Main troubles:
1) You are Ortodox with Monophisites to the south and Shia to the north.
2) You are a King so you cant swear fealty
3) You cant hire any mercenaries
4) Your demeshe is complete crap 3 counties, and only 2 cities and 2 temples. Basic tech rate is zero.

In fact it was easier to play that Jewish cuman duke then this King despite lardger start conditions.


Most common scenario's of a game:
game starts -> Fatimid declare war on you for duche of astwan -> stomped, game over. 50% games
game starts -> Fatimids are stuck in war -> Axium declares holy war on you -> stomped, game over. 20% games
game starts -> Fatimids are stuck in war -> Axium is in war with Abisinia, nice -> you declare war on Axium using fabricated claim, and manage to get 1-2 province -> Some egyptian sheikh declares war on you and bring in half of Fatimids as allies, stomped. 20% games


Best strategy i found looks like this:

If you wanna survive first 10 years, you diplomacy skill must be > 15+, and chancellor the same. Marry princes of HRE, though Kaiser will not help you anyway, AI will less frequently think that your titles are yummy. Rush hight taxes and develop max troops to your southern county because whatever you do Fatimids will claim Astwan, so no need to develop anything there. Start with militia training grounds, you need max number of troops for sieges. If you are lucky you'll manage to get extra 2 counties + abillity to usurm Axium before Fatimids come. Look for oppotunities to increase your Kindom chunk by chunk. Wars are constant at your heretic neigbours. When peace comes, good cash source is Fatimids. We declare war on them when they are already fighting someone. Siege closest holdings, and run away when doomstack comes, then offer white peace.


After all my suffering I united Abissinia and Nubia, had 13k army, even developed some tech, Fatimids lost Jerusalim to crusade, they lost 2 wars to Bysantium and even after all this Fatimid invasion to Abissinia about 30k troops -> stomped


P.s. Vanilla game, and I dont use save/load exept for crushes.

 

[alexti]

Guys have anyone made it with Nubia after last patch ?

Yes, but not from the first attempt

Tryed about 20-30 attemps to survive with it, looks like it is now ultimate challenge
Main troubles:
1) You are Ortodox with Monophisites to the south and Shia to the north.
2) You are a King so you cant swear fealty
3) You cant hire any mercenaries
4) Your demeshe is complete crap 3 counties, and only 2 cities and 2 temples. Basic tech rate is zero.

In fact it was easier to play that Jewish cuman duke then this King despite lardger start conditions.


Most common scenario's of a game:
game starts -> Fatimid declare war on you for duche of astwan -> stomped, game over. 50% games
game starts -> Fatimids are stuck in war -> Axium declares holy war on you -> stomped, game over. 20% games
game starts -> Fatimids are stuck in war -> Axium is in war with Abisinia, nice -> you declare war on Axium using fabricated claim, and manage to get 1-2 province -> Some egyptian sheikh declares war on you and bring in half of Fatimids as allies, stomped. 20% games


Best strategy i found looks like this:

If you wanna survive first 10 years, you diplomacy skill must be > 15+, and chancellor the same. Marry princes of HRE, though Kaiser will not help you anyway, AI will less frequently think that your titles are yummy. Rush hight taxes and develop max troops to your southern county because whatever you do Fatimids will claim Astwan, so no need to develop anything there. Start with militia training grounds, you need max number of troops for sieges. If you are lucky you'll manage to get extra 2 counties + abillity to usurm Axium before Fatimids come. Look for oppotunities to increase your Kindom chunk by chunk. Wars are constant at your heretic neigbours. When peace comes, good cash source is Fatimids. We declare war on them when they are already fighting someone. Siege closest holdings, and run away when doomstack comes, then offer white peace.


After all my suffering I united Abissinia and Nubia, had 13k army, even developed some tech, Fatimids lost Jerusalim to crusade, they lost 2 wars to Bysantium and even after all this Fatimid invasion to Abissinia about 30k troops -> stomped


P.s. Vanilla game, and I dont use save/load exept for crushes.

I most agree with your evaluation, except that I think that the single most common scenario is the following: Fatimids DoW on Aswan within first few months, bring large stack assault everything to get 100% and take it before HRE can arrive (even if it decides to help you). Then Axum DoW on your last province and wins. Not great.

So I've developed different plan which seems to work pretty reliably - I made 3 attempts and each of them was successful. Idea is to immediately go underground - must make some use of that titular kingdom title. I immediately imprison bishop in Aswan, then banish him and cycle through bishopric giving it to character with lowest intrigue. Since you can raise CA unilaterally you can revoke title from the new bishop (and then you can give it back to him ). Continue with imprison/banish in another Aswan province (all levies stay raised). Generally prefer imprisoning characters with lower intrigue (getting a wife with high intrigue before starting the process helps). After bishopric/city is given to the new character, give them the county too and then revoke the barony (their original holding will be a capital) and give it to your son. Repeat in the second county. Now you should have the situation when you only hold the southern county and possibly another city (and/or maybe bishopric) in Aswan (not very important, I wouldn't spend time on doing that unless the owner has low intrigue). Your son should hold two baronies in Aswan. Now you imprison your son, revoke the Aswan counties and give them to the Patriarchate. Now Fatimids suddenly have a problem - those Aswan provinces they've dreamed of are now held by ERE Execute your imprisoned son to inherit baronies. Further steps may vary - you shouldn't do anything in your southern province - Axum is going take it anyway. After looting the major there you can just as well give both to the Patriarchate to raise relations. None of this matter very much though. In the end of this process you'll end up with two baronies. You can develop them a bit for large levies while your chancellor fabricates claims in some place like Capua or Napoli. If you managed to marry some good allies (like Scandinavians) you may declare war on Norse pagans (and let your allies conduct the war for you). In any case I haven't encountered much problem past this point, since you'll eventually get the opportunity to expand (Sicily isn't such a good place since you may get attacked by Muslims, so it's advisable to secure some more counties in a safer place, such as Ireland) and after that it's pretty much a regular game.

 

[BigHamster]

Yeah nice idea you bring, grant counties to HRE. Anyway my goal is to swallow Abbisinia into Nubia.
Tough thing is to avoid invasion from Fatimids. Assasination of Sultan cost a vast sum of money 350. And plotting is usless as that bastard is strong, charitable descendant of Prophet

 

[Comradebot]

Haven't tried since 1.06, though I'll probably go with my 1076 start again as the Caliph is more likely to respect any major alliances you have due to his smaller starting size.

When I succeeded in 1.05 (ultimately conquering all of Abyssinia, Egypt, and a solid chunk of Arabia), I started off by getting my alliances and trying to do whatever I could to increase relations with the Caliph. I handed him gifts and sent my chancellor over to improve relations, and made sure he loved me... seemed to work, though it may have been because he feared the ERE and HRE coming after him. While I was doing that, I pumped cash into building improvements and struck Axum the moment they showed an opening. They went after Harer, and as soon as their armies took each other down I was on em with my own Holy War. After Axum fell, I consolidated, built more improvements, and waited for Harer or Abyssinia to slip up. Harer started to win an eventual war between them, so I jumped Harer while they were still trying to beat Abyssinia... they didn't have the strength left to stop me, so snagged it. Then it was as simple as DoWing a still recovering Abyssinia to unite most of Ethiopia.

 

[BigHamster]

Man, at 1.05 muslims did not had that nasty invasion CB. You gather your puny Kindom county by county, survive and develop it and then BAM! Fatimid invasion, with number of troots x10 of your maximum levie, and no magical holy orders of mercenaries

Only one thing helps - constant assasinations of Sultan when he reaches 500 piety.

Should I mension, that Fatimids joined almost all holly wars I declared to independent muslim neighbours and like 2 of my rulers died due to Sultan sent assasins in reply.

And to crown it all Arabian lands have 7k troop limit with 3k defenders, conqering single counts becomes pain in the ass.

 

[alexti]

Yeah nice idea you bring, grant counties to HRE. Anyway my goal is to swallow Abbisinia into Nubia.
Tough thing is to avoid invasion from Fatimids. Assasination of Sultan cost a vast sum of money 350. And plotting is usless as that bastard is strong, charitable descendant of Prophet

Yeah, I think there's no reliable way to avoid Fatimid invasion other than giving the land to the Patriarchate. Though you could swallow Abyssinia (and Fatimids) into Nubia after growing your power somewhere in Europe first

 

[alexti]

Haven't tried since 1.06, though I'll probably go with my 1076 start again as the Caliph is more likely to respect any major alliances you have due to his smaller starting size.

It got much harder since 1.05. Probably because AI now assaults and finishes the war quicker. I am not sure. It used to respect HRE alliance in 1.05, but apparently not anymore.

Another option might be to try to defeat Axum after losing Aswan to Fatimids. I found it impossible on VH, but maybe it's doable on normal.

 

[noobermenschen]

After all my suffering I united Abissinia and Nubia, had 13k army, even developed some tech, Fatimids lost Jerusalim to crusade, they lost 2 wars to Bysantium and even after all this Fatimid invasion to Abissinia about 30k troops -> stomped

Did they throw the entire 30k at you in one stack? Supply limit in most of Axum is around 7k, 6k if you build additional holdings. Is the AI willing to take that much attrition?

I am coming from the other direction, playing Abyssinia and have united the entire de jure kingdom though am still snuffing rebellions in Harer while trying to convert the last three provinces. It's 1136 and I can raise an Army of about 8k. I was planning on staying quiet as a church mouse for a century or so but now that I am figuring out the supply limit mechanics am wondering if I can take down the Fatamids by destroying their armies at my limited supply choke points (Ayya in the north and Tadjura in the south).

In my game the religion of peace is getting entirely too rowdy and had taken Anatolia (now a papal realm which is shattering in rebellion) and are dominating Iberia and expanding into France. Kingdom of Jerusalem is about to go down as well. It's already lonely down there as a Monophysite island in a sea of Islam, and will get lonelier still if my schismatic brethren keep having their asses handed to them.

 

[EmperorOfIberia]

Did they throw the entire 30k at you in one stack? Supply limit in most of Axum is around 7k, 6k if you build additional holdings. Is the AI willing to take that much attrition?

I am coming from the other direction, playing Abyssinia and have united the entire de jure kingdom though am still snuffing rebellions in Harer while trying to convert the last three provinces. It's 1136 and I can raise an Army of about 8k. I was planning on staying quiet as a church mouse for a century or so but now that I am figuring out the supply limit mechanics am wondering if I can take down the Fatamids by destroying their armies at my limited supply choke points (Ayya in the north and Tadjura in the south).

In my game the religion of peace is getting entirely too rowdy and had taken Anatolia (now a papal realm which is shattering in rebellion) and are dominating Iberia and expanding into France. Kingdom of Jerusalem is about to go down as well. It's already lonely down there as a Monophysite island in a sea of Islam, and will get lonelier still if my schismatic brethren keep having their asses handed to them.

In one of my games, Abyssinia and Axum actually moved into the East, into Fatimid territory. Then again, I was putting pressure from the West towards Egypt at the time, and the Crusades were going on for the Kingdom of Jerusalem.

 

[oilver]

Wow there's a Jewish Duke somewhere in this game can somebody pls post a link of where he is.

 

[yourworstnightm]

Wow there's a Jewish Duke somewhere in this game can somebody pls post a link of where he is.

Judaism is not in the game. That's why the map end abruptly before the lands of the Beta Israel.

 

[BigHamster]

Few more attempt today.

5-7 times -> Fatimid holly war at the beginning.
2-3 times -> Fatimid holly war later

1 game at least came nice:
Caliph insulted his spymaster :happy:
He died in a road accident one year after game started, his son was biten by a poisonous snake a month after that. New Caliph was an 2 year infant. Major rebbelions, and for the first time I managed to win holly war for Aswan from rebelling vassal. Meanwhile ERE crushed 2 jihades in a row, but Pope failed his Crusade.
After that my luck ended, infant declared war on me and reclaimed Aswan, Bissantium lost Armenia and Bassileus is an imbecill.
After that game improved, I at last have eaten Gondar and half of Axium then Bingo! my heir is Duke of Karti and Trepizound looks like Nubia is going to Anatolia, good that it is titular, none can usurp it

 

[Dutchling]

Wow there's a Jewish Duke somewhere in this game can somebody pls post a link of where he is.

Crusader Kings: Deus Veult (the first game + expansion) had a jewish duke. In CKii he is orthodox and a vassal of the Cumans.

 

[stormblind]

Yes, but not from the first attempt


I most agree with your evaluation, except that I think that the single most common scenario is the following: Fatimids DoW on Aswan within first few months, bring large stack assault everything to get 100% and take it before HRE can arrive (even if it decides to help you). Then Axum DoW on your last province and wins. Not great.

So I've developed different plan which seems to work pretty reliably - I made 3 attempts and each of them was successful. Idea is to immediately go underground - must make some use of that titular kingdom title. I immediately imprison bishop in Aswan, then banish him and cycle through bishopric giving it to character with lowest intrigue. Since you can raise CA unilaterally you can revoke title from the new bishop (and then you can give it back to him ). Continue with imprison/banish in another Aswan province (all levies stay raised). Generally prefer imprisoning characters with lower intrigue (getting a wife with high intrigue before starting the process helps). After bishopric/city is given to the new character, give them the county too and then revoke the barony (their original holding will be a capital) and give it to your son. Repeat in the second county. Now you should have the situation when you only hold the southern county and possibly another city (and/or maybe bishopric) in Aswan (not very important, I wouldn't spend time on doing that unless the owner has low intrigue). Your son should hold two baronies in Aswan. Now you imprison your son, revoke the Aswan counties and give them to the Patriarchate. Now Fatimids suddenly have a problem - those Aswan provinces they've dreamed of are now held by ERE Execute your imprisoned son to inherit baronies. Further steps may vary - you shouldn't do anything in your southern province - Axum is going take it anyway. After looting the major there you can just as well give both to the Patriarchate to raise relations. None of this matter very much though. In the end of this process you'll end up with two baronies. You can develop them a bit for large levies while your chancellor fabricates claims in some place like Capua or Napoli. If you managed to marry some good allies (like Scandinavians) you may declare war on Norse pagans (and let your allies conduct the war for you). In any case I haven't encountered much problem past this point, since you'll eventually get the opportunity to expand (Sicily isn't such a good place since you may get attacked by Muslims, so it's advisable to secure some more counties in a safer place, such as Ireland) and after that it's pretty much a regular game.

Did something almost exactly like this for my past two/current 2 games (they're concurrent, one home game, one work game). For one, I allied with Denmark, and conquered northern Sweden / Finland solely through the use of allied armies. My own personal army consists of about 1200 troops max, even with the entirety of Finland, and most of northern Sweden conquered (all the Norse parts with a 1066 start). It's 1106 now, I'm allied with Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Croatia (useless allies), and Novgorod. All my borders consist of allies and friends, even if within my borders I have nothing but angry pagans .

For game 2, I allied with the Duke of The Isles (since almost everywhere that is safe to expand to is unavailable for marriage, or at war); and used his army to secure Ulster and Tyrone, formed the Duchy of Ulster, and used my vassals armies to secure the rest of Ireland (no religion/cultural penalty from subservient counts). Both have made for a great narrative experience. And the different mechanics inherent in the locations have made for HUGELY different stories and gameplay.

The Ireland game has a strong nation that is independant and has few allies (mostly because scotland and england are changing hands too rapidly for alliances to work, and france is almost constantly in some form of rebellion.
The Scandinavian game is a game almost exclusively reliant on allies, treaties, and spending my progeny like chess pieces on a huge board.

Interesting side effect from the Byzantine Wall strategy in Nubia: In both games, Axum / Abyssinia are both still alive, and, stranger still, quite prosperous.

 

[Agnitio Ex Mach]

Did they throw the entire 30k at you in one stack? Supply limit in most of Axum is around 7k, 6k if you build additional holdings. Is the AI willing to take that much attrition?

Yes.

 

[NewbieOne]

I think Nubia should be a de iure kingdom, not part of the de iure (now-)Muslim Egypt. Not sure what the consequences of such a change would be, though.

 

[pyroclastic]

So I've developed different plan which seems to work pretty reliably - I made 3 attempts and each of them was successful. Idea is to immediately go underground - must make some use of that titular kingdom title. I immediately imprison bishop in Aswan, then banish him and cycle through bishopric giving it to character with lowest intrigue. Since you can raise CA unilaterally you can revoke title from the new bishop (and then you can give it back to him ). Continue with imprison/banish in another Aswan province (all levies stay raised). Generally prefer imprisoning characters with lower intrigue (getting a wife with high intrigue before starting the process helps). After bishopric/city is given to the new character, give them the county too and then revoke the barony (their original holding will be a capital) and give it to your son. Repeat in the second county. Now you should have the situation when you only hold the southern county and possibly another city (and/or maybe bishopric) in Aswan (not very important, I wouldn't spend time on doing that unless the owner has low intrigue). Your son should hold two baronies in Aswan. Now you imprison your son, revoke the Aswan counties and give them to the Patriarchate. Now Fatimids suddenly have a problem - those Aswan provinces they've dreamed of are now held by ERE Execute your imprisoned son to inherit baronies. Further steps may vary - you shouldn't do anything in your southern province - Axum is going take it anyway. After looting the major there you can just as well give both to the Patriarchate to raise relations. None of this matter very much though. In the end of this process you'll end up with two baronies. You can develop them a bit for large levies while your chancellor fabricates claims in some place like Capua or Napoli. If you managed to marry some good allies (like Scandinavians) you may declare war on Norse pagans (and let your allies conduct the war for you). In any case I haven't encountered much problem past this point, since you'll eventually get the opportunity to expand (Sicily isn't such a good place since you may get attacked by Muslims, so it's advisable to secure some more counties in a safer place, such as Ireland) and after that it's pretty much a regular game.

This is absolutely brilliant. Would you mind if I wrote up something based on this for the CK2 wiki?

 

[stormblind]

This is absolutely brilliant. Would you mind if I wrote up something based on this for the CK2 wiki?

I know ID love it if you did. Gives a new lease on life for quite a few places . (Now to just compile a list of titular titles )

 

[alexti]

This is absolutely brilliant. Would you mind if I wrote up something based on this for the CK2 wiki?

Go ahead - any work on extending wiki is appreciated

The only point I am not sure about is if you can give away the last county; this idea occurred to me later (after pointlessly losing the county to Axum), so I haven't tested it.

 

[stormblind]

Go ahead - any work on extending wiki is appreciated

The only point I am not sure about is if you can give away the last county; this idea occurred to me later (after pointlessly losing the county to Axum), so I haven't tested it.

I dont believe so. You can't, as a king, have your capital be in one of the barony's within the Patriarchs Domain willingly. So until your final county is taken, you have to keep it.