Surrender to...Italy?

[ajm317]

ajm - if you badly want to test, use cheat of giving provinces to new owner, and give yourself some 10-20 Italian captured or edit save.

But I agree and behaviour does show that total number of provinces is counted.
Not sure if country annexing even needs to capture one VP, but it is also possible requirement.

Yeah, I was going to edit the save.

 

[Traks]

Then you can do two tests - second, edit out only taken VP provinces for Italy, leave all other provinces they have taken and check surrender.

 

[TheCrimsonMajor]

It would make sense that Italy would get Africa, Japan would get India and East Asia, but Germany would get to at least puppet the british isles, no?

 

[ajm317]

Ok, so here's what I found.

I started by going to my save and counting provinces occupied. I found Italy had far more occupied provinces than Germany did. Something like 125 to 75.

Next I edited the save, giving Germany a bunch of the provinces Italy had. When I was done Germany had 98 UK provinces, Italy had 105.

NOTE THAT ITALY STILL HAS MORE.

Playing from that point the UK now surrendered to GERMANY.

So it seems occupied provinces is not by itself the answer.

My next thought was that maybe there was a requirement that you own at least one VP province, my editing had given Germany all the ones Italy held. To test this I edited the save so that Italian occupied Asyut had a VP value of 30.

This had no effect.

One other thing did change. When I gave Germany all those Italian provinces the Italian divisions sitting on them were immediately given to the German player as expeditionary forces by the AI.

So I next loaded the game up as Italy and elected not to do that. No effect, UK still surrenders to Germany.

Finally I thought maybe there was multiple variables at work here, and maybe both VP's and total provinces count in some fashion. To test this I edited the save to make Asyut worth 300 VP's.

Still no effect.

My conclusion is that I have no idea what the hell is going on.

 

[colakki]

Maybe it is something in between captured provinces and captured VP?

 

[synthsia]

yea i got the same problem. Playing as germany year 1941 now and im raging in england atm, first the netherlands surrenderd to japan and japan made them a puppet so i lost all my nether provinces in europe to the newly formed puppet goverment and now england has surrendered to italy, i mean how funny is that, and now belgium is about to lose it's last provinces in africa to nat spain, it's unplayable if these things happen, for me it is anyway. totally unrealistic aswell, like germany would agree to a puppet govorment in territories that they have owned for 2 years time with navel bases etc.

 

[TiberiusfromSWG]

After finally completing operation Sealion and taking London in my first game as Germany the UK finally surrendered...to Italy.

So obviously I don't understand how surrender works. So how does it work? What determines who they surrender to? Does the AI get a choice?

Kind of annoying that bits and pieces of Great Britain are green now.

I am wondering what the threat levels were like in the surrender situations. My thinking is that maybe Italy stacked more threat in the lead up to war by taking Ethiopia, and that other country they get pretty early on. maybe the AI saw them as the biggest threat?

I would like to add that i have absolutely no idea if threat has any calculation in the way surrender is figured, but i would be interested to know if Italy was seen as the higher threat. possibly by holding the Suez canal, and any other prewar occupations that they have done.

 

[dassams]

Ok, so here's what I found.

I started by going to my save and counting provinces occupied. I found Italy had far more occupied provinces than Germany did. Something like 125 to 75.

Next I edited the save, giving Germany a bunch of the provinces Italy had. When I was done Germany had 98 UK provinces, Italy had 105.

NOTE THAT ITALY STILL HAS MORE.

Playing from that point the UK now surrendered to GERMANY.

So it seems occupied provinces is not by itself the answer.

My next thought was that maybe there was a requirement that you own at least one VP province, my editing had given Germany all the ones Italy held. To test this I edited the save so that Italian occupied Asyut had a VP value of 30.

This had no effect.

One other thing did change. When I gave Germany all those Italian provinces the Italian divisions sitting on them were immediately given to the German player as expeditionary forces by the AI.

So I next loaded the game up as Italy and elected not to do that. No effect, UK still surrenders to Germany.

Finally I thought maybe there was multiple variables at work here, and maybe both VP's and total provinces count in some fashion. To test this I edited the save to make Asyut worth 300 VP's.

Still no effect.

My conclusion is that I have no idea what the hell is going on.

Perhaps it is the number of CORE provinces? As i understand it, Egypt is core britain territory, but maybe some other african countries are not ..

 

[ajm317]

A good idea, but unfortunately I just loaded it up again and it appears the UK has core on all those provinces (as near as I can tell they start with cores on every territory they own.)