Surrender of Maine exploit

[Ferdinand_Bardamu]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're fighting England and its allies without your allies, for a single province?

No.

You're fighting England in a reconquest war for all your cores + more which is almost always England + Portugal (the latter can be milked for warscore) and there's a fair chance Burgundy or Castile will join with promise of land. On top of this you already take Maine for free by exploiting the system, meaning you can take even more.

 

[AvengedK1ng]

I'm playing a france campaign right now. I utilized this very change, it works. I had castile and aragon allied who joined the war.

Castile's navy was pretty useful for baiting naval engagements, and for fighting on my behalf when I left occupied territory undefended. Not having to deal with Portugal (or other possible allies)

Portugal can be nice to get french morocco 5 centuries early along with gold mine

is quite nice if you want to end the war as fast as possible to go for other endeavors (PU war for milan

Really? I prefer risking sforza so they've left hre by then

, burgundy, brittany

Brittany is great to take during war as they usually ally castile who you can call in

, prepare for PU on provence+lorraine

Excomm full annex giving pu on naples will give more dev and less ae

, savoy, etc.etc.). With this change you can also effortlessly get a beachhead on Ireland for expansion (due to there being no forts).*

* Edit: I checked my history timeline and I didn't take the pale in the first war, perhaps you still need to siege a province in the area even if there isn't a fort, but I'm not sure.

With enough ticking ws and perhaps blockade I reliably get pale every war

 

[AvengedK1ng]

No.

You're fighting England in a reconquest war for all your cores + more which is almost always England + Portugal (the latter can be milked for warscore) and there's a fair chance Burgundy or Castile will join with promise of land. On top of this you already take Maine for free by exploiting the system, meaning you can take even more.

You're using a promise of land, when you need everything for a mission, calais comes later
And as big hitters you don't want them to have low trust

 

[Ferdinand_Bardamu]

You're using a promise of land, when you need everything for a mission, calais comes later
And as big hitters you don't want them to have low trust

If you curry favours by the time the war is over you can buy back their trust.

You give them Calais because you should inherit it for free later.

You win their trust back by going to war with Provence and giving them Barrois and Verdun.

 

[AvengedK1ng]

If you curry favours by the time the war is over you can buy back their trust.

You'll want favours for Italian wars or taking catalonia early game

You give them Calais because you should inherit it for free later.

RNG

You win their trust back by going to war with Provence and giving them Barrois and Verdun.

You can take barrois with ae to spare tho if provence excommed?

 

[vaLor-]

No.

You're fighting England in a reconquest war for all your cores + more which is almost always England + Portugal (the latter can be milked for warscore) and there's a fair chance Burgundy or Castile will join with promise of land. On top of this you already take Maine for free by exploiting the system, meaning you can take even more.

The surrender of maine now functions as a reconquest war for France. Hence, you can reconq while having allies in the war.

 

[vaLor-]

Portugal can be nice to get french morocco 5 centuries early along with gold mine

Really? I prefer risking sforza so they've left hre by then

Brittany is great to take during war as they usually ally castile who you can call in

Excomm full annex giving pu on naples will give more dev and less ae

With enough ticking ws and perhaps blockade I reliably get pale every war

In a previous run as France a while back I did take ceuta immediately, but in this run I completed age objectives really quickly and had a golden era at 1460, so it wasn't necessary to get the most important bonuses quickly (AE reduc-->War Taxes-->Transfer subj). In my run I took the PU on milan after they left the HRE, I tried for pope but haven't gotten it this run unfortunately so excomm wasn't an option. I didn't need pale because I vassalized an Irish minor and used their claims to take a good chunk of ireland for myself and had most of the island quite early (1460-1470 iirc).

Overall France is quite good this patch, but I was very surprised how lacking it was in depth and flavor. One of the greatest empires of this period and there's very little for Napoleon's historical conquests (Italy, dalmatia, netherlands, rhein confederation, events for conquest of HRE, historical events in reformation era). Perhaps an event line for dismantling HRE as France and more missions for Napoleon's conquests would make the country more enticing to play.

 

[vaLor-]

In a previous run as France a while back I did take ceuta immediately, but in this run I completed age objectives really quickly and had a golden era at 1460, so it wasn't necessary to get the most important bonuses quickly (AE reduc-->War Taxes-->Transfer subj). In my run I took the PU on milan after they left the HRE, I tried for pope but haven't gotten it this run unfortunately so excomm wasn't an option. I didn't need pale because I vassalized an Irish minor and used their claims to take a good chunk of ireland for myself and had most of the island quite early (1460-1470 iirc).

Overall France is quite good this patch, but I was very surprised how lacking it was in depth and flavor. One of the greatest empires of this period and there's nothing for Napoleon's historical conquests (Italy, dalmatia, netherlands, rhein confederation, events for conquest of HRE, historical events in reformation era). Perhaps an event line for dismantling HRE as France and more missions for Napoleon's conquests would make the country more enticing to play.

In addition, the events page has similar lack of flavor, with all of the events being timelocked mtth stuff that gives you an advisor or some ducats. Castile or England are far better in this field.

 

[Volbound]

When I play France, I always declare on England before it to save AE. The only issue is having to deal with Portugal as well but it really isn't hard for an experience player. I usually get all of Gascony and Normandy with the return core CB war.

With England, you can totally exploit it by selling Maine to Province. After selling land to Province, make them rival. France will break the Alliance with Province. Declare Humiliate on Province and get the over 50 Power Projection to get +1 mana on every category.

 

[Volbound]

In a previous run as France a while back I did take ceuta immediately, but in this run I completed age objectives really quickly and had a golden era at 1460, so it wasn't necessary to get the most important bonuses quickly (AE reduc-->War Taxes-->Transfer subj). In my run I took the PU on milan after they left the HRE, I tried for pope but haven't gotten it this run unfortunately so excomm wasn't an option. I didn't need pale because I vassalized an Irish minor and used their claims to take a good chunk of ireland for myself and had most of the island quite early (1460-1470 iirc).

Overall France is quite good this patch, but I was very surprised how lacking it was in depth and flavor. One of the greatest empires of this period and there's very little for Napoleon's historical conquests (Italy, dalmatia, netherlands, rhein confederation, events for conquest of HRE, historical events in reformation era). Perhaps an event line for dismantling HRE as France and more missions for Napoleon's conquests would make the country more enticing to play.

France is one of the most interesting countries until 1600. I agree, the Napoleonic Era isn't done very well. IMO, they should stop EU4 at 1700 and just create an entirely new game for 1700-1820. The dynamics of that period just don't fit well with EU game play.

Apparently, only half the posters agreed with me on this but IMO the worse country from historical purposes is Portugal. They should have a real treaty of Tordesillas event that gives the West to Castile and East to Portugal. Portugal getting a colonial bonus makes no sense as Portugal was not a massive colonial nation but rather a trade empire. They should get a colonial range bonus. Only major area Portugal colonized in mass was Brazil. Most of the rest of Portugal's colonies were simple outposts and still dominated by local population unlike Castile (who should get the colonial bonus) who colonized and defined the culture of the Caribbean, Central America, and most of South America. Portugal simple goes and colonizes the Caribbean every game. No logic to it. You never see AI Portugal follow its mission tree and take Gao, Macau, Hormuz, etc. I also think Lisbon should be its own trade node and Portugal should start a little more advanced at seafaring (perhaps 1 Diplo tech higher) to reflect that they were already out sailing by 1444 down the cost of Africa.

I would love to have a historical Colonization similar to the Historical AI Focus Tree in HOI4. Players can turn it on and off depending on their flavor.

 

[YellowPress]

France is one of the most interesting countries until 1600. I agree, the Napoleonic Era isn't done very well.

You have the napoleonic part to the mission tree, along with rev france being its own tag

IMO, they should stop EU4 at 1700 and just create an entirely new game for 1700-1820. The dynamics of that period just don't fit well with EU game play.

How so? Absolutism changes dynamics, you have forced marches which you'll almost always have free mil for, cannons now alot more powerful, trade companies are giga powerful, only issue is rotw not lagging behind in tech enough

Apparently, only half the posters agreed with me on this but IMO the worse country from historical purposes is Portugal. They should have a real treaty of Tordesillas event that gives the West to Castile and East to Portugal. Portugal getting a colonial bonus makes no sense as Portugal was not a massive colonial nation but rather a trade empire. They should get a colonial range bonus.

It lasts just the first age and means you can cross cape by the historical date if you go expa first

Only major area Portugal colonized in mass was Brazil. Most of the rest of Portugal's colonies were simple outposts and still dominated by local population unlike Castile (who should get the colonial bonus) who colonized and defined the culture of the Caribbean, Central America, and most of South America.

You'll be happy to know la plata got a culture

Portugal simple goes and colonizes the Caribbean every game. No logic to it

Mission tree, carribean feeds sevilla; can control louisana, mexican, ivory Coast, and Panaman trade that way

. You never see AI Portugal follow its mission tree and take Gao, Macau, Hormuz, etc.

They take goa, but Portugal isnt daring enough with its troops, and doesn't have economy for lots of troops, which is why colonialism probably shouldn't be regular conquest but something else, or at least put malabar on its straits

I also think Lisbon should be its own trade node

Valencia being its own prevented genoa siphoning off too much from sevilla, lisbon being its own sounds like a bad idea

and Portugal should start a little more advanced at seafaring (perhaps 1 Diplo tech higher) to reflect that they were already out sailing by 1444 down the cost of Africa.

They already have that explorer and are within colonial range

I would love to have a historical Colonization similar to the Historical AI Focus Tree in HOI4. Players can turn it on and off depending on their flavor.

Natives got a rework so maybe colonisers can get a rework, we could have things like zaragosa and louisana sale, having a generic form of kleinvendig would also be nice

 

[YellowPress]

When I play France, I always declare on England before it to save AE. The only issue is having to deal with Portugal as well but it really isn't hard for an experience player. I usually get all of Gascony and Normandy with the return core CB war.

100YW is a core reconquest for the defender now as others have said, only advantage of declaring yourself is being able to take ceuta off Portugal and rushing taiflat at berber coast

With England, you can totally exploit it by selling Maine to Province. After selling land to Province, make them rival. France will break the Alliance with Province.

Can sell to britanny, wait for france or Provence to declare war on brittany, declare your own war and conquer faster so that you can vassalise britanny and then have a defensive war vs france

Declare Humiliate on Province and get the over 50 Power Projection to get +1 mana on every category.

Can work

 

[Volbound]

You have the napoleonic part to the mission tree, along with rev france being its own tag

How so? Absolutism changes dynamics, you have forced marches which you'll almost always have free mil for, cannons now alot more powerful, trade companies are giga powerful, only issue is rotw not lagging behind in tech enough

It lasts just the first age and means you can cross cape by the historical date if you go expa first

You'll be happy to know la plata got a culture

Mission tree, carribean feeds sevilla; can control louisana, mexican, ivory Coast, and Panaman trade that way

They take goa, but Portugal isnt daring enough with its troops, and doesn't have economy for lots of troops, which is why colonialism probably shouldn't be regular conquest but something else, or at least put malabar on its straits

Valencia being its own prevented genoa siphoning off too much from sevilla, lisbon being its own sounds like a bad idea

They already have that explorer and are within colonial range

Natives got a rework so maybe colonisers can get a rework, we could have things like zaragosa and louisana sale, having a generic form of kleinvendig would also be nice

So for item #2, You literally cannot do the Napoleonic Wars on Eu4 if you tried. Truces last too long and Warscore limits of 100 would prevent massive occupations. France would literally not get enough warscore to match their expansions under Napoleon. Not to mention the Coalition system would not work correctly and battles/combat is just not accurate enough to fit the era. If you could take Napoleon Total War and actually make the AI smart diplomatically like in EU4, that would be a better combo. The mechanics in EU4 just don't feel correct for that era and it really deserves its own game in my opinion.

Going to Portugal, nothing is historical about the nation as I have pointed out. I have never seen a game where Portugal played anything close to Portugal and it is kind of frustrating. The AI is crap, the ideas/bonuses don't fit Portugal, and in some ways, EU4 limitations prevents a historical Portugal.

As I pointed out, Portugal has to colonize and they didn't really do it the way EU4 defines colonization. They built small trading ports all along Africa and then conquered Indonesia and took Goa. Most of the areas they colonized did not have lasting colonization. Brazil is perhaps the only main exception. This is why the game Colonization didn't even have Portugal as a playable nation instead only having the French, English, Spanish, and Dutch.

 

[YellowPress]

In addition, the events page has similar lack of flavor, with all of the events being timelocked mtth stuff that gives you an advisor or some ducats. Castile or England are far better in this field.

Lack of flavour? How much more do you want? Free pu possibly or just enforce union ch on naples and counter spanish claims in Italy mirroring castile because Italian wars were real. Random rebels you can't control for like in England. Random tax related events like England

In a previous run as France a while back I did take ceuta immediately, but in this run I completed age objectives really quickly and had a golden era at 1460, so it wasn't necessary to get the most important bonuses quickly (AE reduc-->War Taxes-->Transfer subj). In my run I took the PU on milan after they left the HRE, I tried for pope but haven't gotten it this run unfortunately so excomm wasn't an option. I didn't need pale because I vassalized an Irish minor and used their claims to take a good chunk of ireland for myself and had most of the island quite early (1460-1470 iirc).

Taking pale delays England's own conquest, denying them a port to land troops in, you can fabricate on irish minors during war, peace deal, make claim, release meath, transfer claims, declare war asap

Overall France is quite good this patch, but I was very surprised how lacking it was in depth and flavor. One of the greatest empires of this period and there's very little for Napoleon's historical conquests (Italy, dalmatia, netherlands, rhein confederation, events for conquest of HRE,

Chambers of reunion. Dalmatia was just to stop British imports so its very hard to model, same with annexing southern holstein

historical events in reformation era).

Unique reformation disaster

Perhaps an event line for dismantling HRE as France

If electors were split between pro emperor and pro French you might see ai dismantlement more, but then people would complain about it in 1444, just like they complained about defender of faith in 1444

and more missions for Napoleon's conquests would make the country more enticing to play.

I mean railroading it in 1444 when the late game map will completely differ

 

[Ferdinand_Bardamu]

So for item #2, You literally cannot do the Napoleonic Wars on Eu4 if you tried. Truces last too long and Warscore limits of 100 would prevent massive occupations. France would literally not get enough warscore to match their expansions under Napoleon. Not to mention the Coalition system would not work correctly and battles/combat is just not accurate enough to fit the era. If you could take Napoleon Total War and actually make the AI smart diplomatically like in EU4, that would be a better combo. The mechanics in EU4 just don't feel correct for that era and it really deserves its own game in my opinion.

Maybe France could be given 10% Admin Efficiency (Like Germany or the Mughals) via missions to better simulate late game conquest.

Before people cry how overpowered it is, I remind you there are people who claim the Ottomans should be able to annex the Mamluks in one war.

They wouldn't get the 10% Admin Efficiency until either embracing or fighting the Revolution anyway.

 

[YellowPress]

Maybe France could be given 10% Admin Efficiency (Like Germany or the Mughals) via missions to better simulate late game conquest.

It gets 5 admin eff if it goes rev via mission tree atm

Before people cry how overpowered it is, I remind you there are people who claim the Ottomans should be able to annex the Mamluks in one war.

Based

They wouldn't get the 10% Admin Efficiency until either embracing or fighting the Revolution anyway.

 

[YellowPress]

So for item #2, You literally cannot do the Napoleonic Wars on Eu4 if you tried. Truces last too long and Warscore limits of 100 would prevent massive occupations.

If you transfer occupation then maybe, the rapid sieges is the bigger issue, or compelete defeat at austerlitz

France would literally not get enough warscore to match their expansions under Napoleon. Not to mention the Coalition system would not work correctly and battles/combat is just not accurate enough to fit the era

I mean it vaguely gets right the cav increasingly bad and artillery increasingly good idea

. If you could take Napoleon Total War and actually make the AI smart diplomatically like in EU4, that would be a better combo.

More than opm france is good but also no india

The mechanics in EU4 just don't feel correct for that era and it really deserves its own game in my opinion.

Going to Portugal, nothing is historical about the nation as I have pointed out. I have never seen a game where Portugal played anything close to Portugal and it is kind of frustrating.

Because eu4 doesn't allow it, thats why the missiom tree is needed, as no longer can explo or expa just give you cbs on rotw because its eurocentric or something

The AI is crap

It has a bad hand, have you tried matching the conquests? India being way too stable is one issue but the bigger one is needing to land the armies as well as swahili

, the ideas/bonuses don't fit Portugal,

How?

and in some ways, EU4 limitations prevents a historical Portugal.

Yes very much so, as does having Portugal in seperate war to Spain

As I pointed out, Portugal has to colonize and they didn't really do it the way EU4 defines colonization. They built small trading ports all along Africa

Yes thats why you have the colonist growth bonus to quickly wrap around cape to get to the east

and then conquered Indonesia

Bit of an exaggeration, and theres lots of uncolonized land in sea at game start like spice islands

and took Goa. Most of the areas they colonized did not have lasting colonization. Brazil is perhaps the only main exception.

East timor speaking portugese still reflects something I think

This is why the game Colonization didn't even have Portugal as a playable nation instead only having the French, English, Spanish, and Dutch.

I've never heard of this game before, slightly annoyed theres no Swedish for their minor NA holding if dutch are allowed

 

[vaLor-]

Lack of flavour? How much more do you want? Free pu possibly or just enforce union ch on naples and counter spanish claims in Italy mirroring castile because Italian wars were real. Random rebels you can't control for like in England. Random tax related events like England

Taking pale delays England's own conquest, denying them a port to land troops in, you can fabricate on irish minors during war, peace deal, make claim, release meath, transfer claims, declare war asap

Chambers of reunion. Dalmatia was just to stop British imports so its very hard to model, same with annexing southern holstein

Unique reformation disaster

If electors were split between pro emperor and pro French you might see ai dismantlement more, but then people would complain about it in 1444, just like they complained about defender of faith in 1444

I mean railroading it in 1444 when the late game map will completely differ

Free land =/= flavor. France gets a lot of free land, but I'm saying that there is very little depth to the gameplay, which makes it an odd one out compared to other dominant historical powers like England, Castile, and Portugal.

I'm aware of the reformation disaster, I simply think it's the bare minimum that could've been done, a MTTH event after a certain number of provinces/percentage that leads to an event chain (similar in depth and scope as War of the Roses) would be far superior.

There should be greater involvement between France and HRE, such as an incident line with a MTTH that is modified by amount of HRE land owned/electors subjugated, with content leading to different results such as coalition war against HRE, war against emperor+hostile electors leading to France becoming the emperor, or just dissolving the HRE in a more climactic way than is currently being done (with perhaps some perma-buffs as incentive, like -WSC).

I fail to see how this is railroading, any country with imperial ambitions as is natural in EU4 would do the same, reaching its geographic apex (funnel into italy through natural weakness, expansion through peninsula to balkan mountains, reaching the rhine and squashing the eternal german threat on their borders) just like any entity would have given France's position. I would say spain, GB, portugal have far heavier railroading than France at present, with far more arbitrary prioritization of colonial regions based more on their contemporary politics rather than geographic ambition.

 

[Volbound]

If you transfer occupation then maybe, the rapid sieges is the bigger issue, or compelete defeat at austerlitz

I mean it vaguely gets right the cav increasingly bad and artillery increasingly good idea

More than opm france is good but also no india

Because eu4 doesn't allow it, thats why the missiom tree is needed, as no longer can explo or expa just give you cbs on rotw because its eurocentric or something

It has a bad hand, have you tried matching the conquests? India being way too stable is one issue but the bigger one is needing to land the armies as well as swahili

How?

Yes very much so, as does having Portugal in seperate war to Spain

Yes thats why you have the colonist growth bonus to quickly wrap around cape to get to the east

Bit of an exaggeration, and theres lots of uncolonized land in sea at game start like spice islands

East timor speaking portugese still reflects something I think

I've never heard of this game before, slightly annoyed theres no Swedish for their minor NA holding if dutch are allowed

You have never heard of Sid Meier's Colonization? It was a classic. They made a sequel using Civilization 4 Engine called Civilization 4: Colonization.

Here is a link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sid_Meier's_Colonization