Support Independence

[wertux]

So I won the PU war against France as England in the beginning of the game and i had them as my junior partner since something like the 1450:s and now with the protestant reformation i decided i wanted to go protestant, aswell as with France (i forced them). Their liberty desire went instantly to 100 as i expected and after something like ten years their liberty desire ticked down to 60%. Then Suddenly the ottomans decided to support their independence, which i'm fine with but i dont understand how long the ottomans can support the independence, since France seem unwilling to declare the independence war. So am i just to sit and wait for the rest of the game or is there a limit for how long a nation can support independence? I really want to start integrating france so thats why im in a hurry.

 

[ElGranCapitan]

Until you declare war on the Ottomans or they get bored

 

[Tarkilth]

They will pretty much never stop supporting unless you push LD down below 50% with their support or get a truce with the ottomans. Easiest and best way is to get into a war where the ottomans are involved. You can insert yourself via great power interaction, or use the enforce peace or whatnot in distant wars where you can be fairly certain the Ottomans wont reach you or demand anything from you unless you want to actualyl fight them.

 

[wertux]

Thanks for the replies, but France has now finally declared their independence war. i am not used to be the leader in a PU so my question may have been stupid. However one more thing that bothers me is that you cant declare a war on a disloyal subject to force them to become loyal, i currently think that the current set of ways to decrease LD is to few. Declaring a war against a disloyal subject should be added as an option i think.

 

[Tarkilth]

Sorry to hear that. At least when you win the independence war they should be loyal again and Ottomand will be unable to support them.

The main way I avoid getting Independence wars declared on me once LD has gone too high to combat effectively (for lack of monarch power for development or otherwise) I make sure I never am at peace.

I cannot think of a single time a subject has DOW'ed me when I am at war, and I know for a fact that if you declare independence from an overlord at war while allied to other subjects of that overlord those allies will not join you in the independence war against overlord, but instead fight against you on the side of the overlord. So the AI has some massive reservations against that.

Safest way to play with subjects is to make sure they can never go avove 50% LD after their truce with you is up. Then no one can support their Independance and they'll play nice with you.

In any case, no sweats, it's something you learn like all the other stuff in EU4 over time

 

[wertux]

Thanks for your advices! I have now won the war and i now noticed that i have to wait another 50 years to integrate them . However they are now as loyal as a dog. I only usually have vassals that are easier to control, so PU:s are new for me. but in order to convert them to protestant i had to go to 100 LD with them. i didn't expect anyone to support them since i was very friendly with my neighbors and i was the most powerful nation in Europe except for the ottomans.

Yeah it's amazing how i still learn stuff from this game even after 700hrs, thats why i love it!

 

[makaramus]

supporting independence takes a diplomatic slot. in this case ottoman may decide stop it if they no longer hate you or if they reach maximum dip slot . best solution is dowing them so france cant fight near him

 

[Badesumofu]

PUs are actually much easier to keep loyal than vassals once you stabilise them. They get no LD from development whatsoever and rarely build their military to anywhere near their force limit unless they are planning to declare independence.

England a France is a bit of a special case. Firstly there is the historical rival malus. Then there is the fact that you have to force them into PU which means you start at low relations and trust. Then there is that France at game start is stronger than England so once they rebuild their military they will get LD from military strength.

The atwix guide covers very nicely the ways to get and keep them loyal, however.

One other thing I would advise - consider whether it is worth it to integrate them before you do it. Once you have grown and formed GB you will find them pretty easy to keep loyal. Can you actually statify all their land? Because if you can't, or can only statify a little bit, then they are likely more useful as a subject than as a bunch of territorial cores.

PUs are very useful to extract value out of land when you own a lot because where vassals will inevitably want to not be vassals anymore if they get big, PUs can be kept loyal even if they directly own thousands of development.

 

[makaramus]

PUs are actually much easier to keep loyal than vassals once you stabilise them. They get no LD from development whatsoever and rarely build their military to anywhere near their force limit unless they are planning to declare independence.

England a France is a bit of a special case. Firstly there is the historical rival malus. Then there is the fact that you have to force them into PU which means you start at low relations and trust. Then there is that France at game start is stronger than England so once they rebuild their military they will get LD from military strength.

The atwix guide covers very nicely the ways to get and keep them loyal, however.

One other thing I would advise - consider whether it is worth it to integrate them before you do it. Once you have grown and formed GB you will find them pretty easy to keep loyal. Can you actually statify all their land? Because if you can't, or can only statify a little bit, then they are likely more useful as a subject than as a bunch of territorial cores.

PUs are very useful to extract value out of land when you own a lot because where vassals will inevitably want to not be vassals anymore if they get big, PUs can be kept loyal even if they directly own thousands of development.

england-france has no "historical rival" status because hundred years war was not actually "england vs france" war... instead it was "france king ruling england vs france king ruling france" war O_O in game and in life both ...

 

[hrimhari]

Yep, gotta get that ld below 50 before the truce runs out. If you have MoH, then great power influence helps (it boosts trust, and improves relations). Subsidies help too, though they can let your partner have a bigger army. Keep your army and navy big to lower the relative power mechanic. If you have spare money, use the "enable loyalists" subject interaction.

And for gods sake, don't do what I did and get your PU two months before the 100 years war fired.

 

[wertux]

Yep, gotta get that ld below 50 before the truce runs out. If you have MoH, then great power influence helps (it boosts trust, and improves relations). Subsidies help too, though they can let your partner have a bigger army. Keep your army and navy big to lower the relative power mechanic. If you have spare money, use the "enable loyalists" subject interaction.

And for gods sake, don't do what I did and get your PU two months before the 100 years war fired.

Yes i have all DLC:s but i totally forgot about that influence nation deal. But like i said before i had no problem keeping them loyal until the reformation.