Supply mapmode

[Luka]

In my search for screen shots to create my previous Frankenstein's monster of an image I came across the one for the Japanese home islands in supply mapmode, which I thought looked totally awesome.
It raised a few questions and possible improvements to suggest. Again, it's nothing that (I don't think) can't be implemented with the existing toolset.



So the questions are
Do we get to see exactly which province on the supply line is taking a beating? This includes sea and land provinces? It looks as though this may be the case for land, but is there equivalent visual representation of convoy attacks? If not, there should be. If you need the information for land, then you need it for sea.
It also got me thinking about the partisan mapmode. Does this need it's own mapmode? It probably does, but just for the sake of discussion can the partisan mapmode be combined with the supply mapmode to show us where the partisan activity is that is effecting our supplies?

 

[Bullfrog]

Good idea, and keep up the graphics and movies, you are doing a good job! I also think that an indication of supply interference would be helpful. Although a combined partisan/supply mapmode would not be necessary, perhaps being too clunky at times. Consider that the supply mode will be confusing enough as it is, and the partisan mode will be very extensive potentially. This might get confusing. Perhaps just an indicator in the supply mode where your lines are under attack would be fine, not the whole thing combined would work better?

 

[Luka]

Good idea, and keep up the graphics and movies, you are doing a good job!

I'm glad you said that - I was just wondering if I was getting on people's nerves with the pictures

I also think that an indication of supply interference would be helpful. Although a combined partisan/supply mapmode would not be necessary, perhaps being too clunky at times. Consider that the supply mode will be confusing enough as it is, and the partisan mode will be very extensive potentially. This might get confusing. Perhaps just an indicator in the supply mode where your lines are under attack would be fine, not the whole thing combined would work better?

You're probably right. The thought just popped into my head as it's the partisans that are doing your land supply lines damage. But there is also aircraft and the sea convoys both of which partisans are irrelevant to.
But I think some visual feedback about your supply situation is essential. We all know how important the supply lines are and we need an interface to reflect this. Even if we see where the supplies lines are taking losses we still don't know what kind of attack caused it (partisans/air) the severity, the timescale, etc.

 

[Battlecry]

Just to try and be helpful, I think the provinces that are red in the above screenshot are that way because nothing has reached them yet. Look at the time, it's only 4 hours from game start. I doubt any convoys will move that fast.

 

[Luka]

Ah ok. If that's the case then we need this feature more than I first thought

 

[Bullfrog]

The blue provinces are indicating the location of overseas depots.

The little gray circles must be ports that can receive and send supplies.

 

[potski]

Just to try and be helpful, I think the provinces that are red in the above screenshot are that way because nothing has reached them yet. Look at the time, it's only 4 hours from game start. I doubt any convoys will move that fast.

Supplies only move one province per day, yet they have moved from Tokyo to the port at Hiroshima. So they must have been moving before 1 January 1936. I don't think the red provinces are necessarily indicative of a complete lack of supplies, but it may be that the demand for supplies is greater than what is available.

Clearly, it's nothing to do with the supply lines being attacked as suggested by Luka on the map - provinces on the islands of Kyushu and Shikoku (Japanese cores) and in Korea are red.

The blue provinces are indicating the location of overseas depots.

The little gray circles must be ports that can receive and send supplies.

The yellow supply icons (which Luka suggests on the map are supply depots) exist on nearly all landmasses. Johan called one of these a "center depot" in the Dev Diary #9 thread. He also said "if a unit is abroad it will have a supply stockpile point that acts as a base for its supply" and I assume this point is the "center depot", not a port as in HOI2.

There are two blue provinces on the map, and two on the France/North Africa supply map in Dev Diary #9. All four have ports and airbases.

In Korea a Div in Seoul seems to be drawing its supplies from somewhere to the north (possibly from a center depot which we can't see), not from the blue province with the airbase, which is probably Busan.

In a screenshot of Germany showing orders being given to Luftflotte IV which was based at Kassel, the unit is shown as being supplied from Kassel itself, instead of Berlin. This seems to imply that the airbases might also be supply points, but probably only for air units. This might account for the different colour of these provinces?

 

[von Sachsen]

Most likely the red and blue signify supply and resource routes.

 

[Luka]

Clearly, it's nothing to do with the supply lines being attacked as suggested by Luka on the map - provinces on the islands of Kyushu and Shikoku (Japanese cores) and in Korea are red.

I was just hoping that was the case Woud be handy to see on the map where your supply line is being attacked.

In a screenshot of Germany showing orders being given to Luftflotte IV which was based at Kassel, the unit is shown as being supplied from Kassel itself, instead of Berlin. This seems to imply that the airbases might also be supply points, but probably only for air units. This might account for the different colour of these provinces?

I would hope that airports can be used to supply regular ground units too. Seems odd that you'd only be able to ship aircraft supplies rather than division supplies.

 

[zeekater]

I would hope that airports can be used to supply regular ground units too. Seems odd that you'd only be able to ship aircraft supplies rather than division supplies.

I don't think the airports are used to fly supplies in, but rather that they contain some supplies for the aircraft. Were regular supplies flown in a lot (if there was another solution)?
For surrounded or far away units, sure, but those were the exception, not the rule (and is simulated with the 'air supply' mission).

There was no FedEx or DHL yet back then

 

[Luka]

I don't think the airports are used to fly supplies in, but rather that they contain some supplies for the aircraft. Were regular supplies flown in a lot (if there was another solution)?
For surrounded or far away units, sure, but those were the exception, not the rule (and is simulated with the 'air supply' mission).

There was no FedEx or DHL yet back then

Strange. That implies that the game distinguishes between aircraft supplies and 'other' supplies. I'm only saying this because it seems from the logistics dev diary that it's the province itself that contains the supplies. The game cannot distinguish between aircraft supplies and normal supplies. Unless an airbase acts as a type of depot? But again that would imply there is a distinction in the type of supplies.

 

[Alex_brunius]

I would hope that airports can be used to supply regular ground units too. Seems odd that you'd only be able to ship aircraft supplies rather than division supplies.

I agree. The "supply mission" for transport aircrafts should not only be from airbase to province. "Bombing" a zone with supplies is terribly innefficient. Id like the mission to be airbase - airbase and have the smallest airbase limit how much supplies can be brought in or how many transport airwings that can be active on the mission. Perhaps a base value Y supplies and an additional 3Y worth depending on airbase size. So 25% would be the minimum supply delivery and an extra 7.5% per airbase level.

 

[zeekater]

A more efficient "air supply" when there is an airport in the province would be nice. How big would the difference between "airdropping" and "flying in" supplies be?

It shouldn't be a standard, automatic way of sending supplies though, only a mission

 

[Luka]

A more efficient "air supply" when there is an airport in the province would be nice. How big would the difference between "airdropping" and "flying in" supplies be?

It shouldn't be a standard, automatic way of sending supplies though, only a mission

I agree. You can always airdrop stuff, but having a runway is far more efficient. Reminds me of the bit in the Stalingrad book where the remnants of 6th Army fell back onto the runway. It was one of the last things to fall because they knew they needed the supplies that the runway could give.