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1776ZOOMSNIPE1911

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Hey guys

I feel that supply is in a bad place at the moment and I have some ideas to fix it

The bad:
  • Supply can be captured
  • Some vehicles carry far too much for the size and some carry far too little.
    • e.g. Kubelwagon should carry aprox. half the amount and the opel blitz should carry 4x amount
  • Supply is not differentiated between classes eg arty hmg rifles tank ammo etc.....
The solutions
  • Make supply unconquerable
    • The allied had no compatible weapons (except the sten!) and stolen ammo wouldn't make sense
  • Make the vehicles hold appropriate amount of supply
  • make 3 different types of supply ammos
    1. Infantry ammo (grenades bullets etc)
    2. Arty ammo ( at guns, howitzers)
    3. Tank ammo ( tanks and armored cars
 

Vyllis

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I favour making supply trucks carry less supplies (especially artillery supplies) to force spammers to choose carefully their deck composition/cost and strategy.

But keeping universal ammunitions is needed in my opinion.

For conquerable supplies, i am not sure about it yet. If it can maker spammer life more careful, i am all for it.
 

potski

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Conquerable supplies doesn't seem to be such an issue, that I noticed. Supply trucks come from the rear, while in WG and RD they could come from the side of the map. The route finding to their destination may be better because of the front line mechanic - they should know which roads to avoid.

It was a bit cheesy in the earlier games a convoy of three enemy supply trucks rolled into a village you controlled, and were captured without a fight. Or trucks you ordered never arrived because the AI took them along a road with enemy units close to it. I've not noticed this happen.
 

axnone

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1, while stolen ammo may be a joke(yet not a joke for the beute firefly/cromwell LOL;)) stolen gas/petrol makes perfect sense, as no repairs are allowed incompatible spare parts are out of the question.

2, the amount of supplies for each truck is mostly for balance purpose, not really clinging on to reality.

3, no different ammo resupplies are unrealistic as you have too many types of bullets/shells, even inside a single division.
 

1776ZOOMSNIPE1911

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I favour making supply trucks carry less supplies (especially artillery supplies) to force spammers to choose carefully their deck composition/cost and strategy.

But keeping universal ammunitions is needed in my opinion.

For conquerable supplies, i am not sure about it yet. If it can maker spammer life more careful, i am all for it.
Unconquerable supplies allows for more offensive game-play and helps reduce static play by allowing front line units to resupply
 

Commiekiller757

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Unconquerable supplies allows for more offensive game-play and helps reduce static play by allowing front line units to resupply

I'd have to disagree with that, being able to capture enemy supplies to aid an offensive would help in gameplay terms, and not having to worry about your trucks being captured would aid static play because there's less risk in sending your trucks close to a contested city to supply the frontline.
 

Bhaal

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Unconquerable supplies allows for more offensive game-play and helps reduce static play by allowing front line units to resupply
It also makes for invincible supply trucks that can get to encircled troops and run by enemy units. You should have to watch your trucks and routes, I am all for being able to capture them.
 

1776ZOOMSNIPE1911

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But trucks in real life would provide no real immediate use unless you used the same ammo which is true only for the mp40/sten (there may be more) But in game the truck just defects and commits treason
 

1776ZOOMSNIPE1911

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It also makes for invincible supply trucks that can get to encircled troops and run by enemy units. You should have to watch your trucks and routes, I am all for being able to capture them.
In that case the moral would break and it would surrender or the truck would be shot at, medics where protected by the Geneva convention but truck drivers in a supply truck where not
 

1776ZOOMSNIPE1911

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Mirage2k

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1: Capture of enemy supplies happens very rarely, usually in cases where the player losing the truck is already losing badly. Also, the capturer may or may not actually need any supplies at that time, while taking the supplies from the enemy, be it by kill or capture, is on average the more impactful effect because that truck is almost always called in to answer to a specific need. For those reasons, I find it to be a rather irrelevant aspect of the game, close to the bottom of the priority list. It happens that you capture an enemy truck and it's nice to have, but it's not really a big deal.

2: I agree on this, it would be good to have a more distinct and realistic difference between light supply cars and big supply trucks. Of course the lighter cars should then also be a lot cheaper and more numerous to balance it out. However, again I would place this pretty damn close to the very bottom of the priority list for changes to make. Game must be in a pretty good state for this to be a relevant discussion.

3: No, no, no, no! First of all, the argument of realism is false. Supplies aren't usually brought up to an active front line at all, the common procedure is for the troops to rotate back to supply stations to get resupplied and then return, because obviously a big truck with weak off-road ability and filled with explosives showing up at the front and gathering a platoon around it is a really good way to reveal your position and get mortared. In some cases supplies are brought to the front, but that would mostly be during the night when no fighting is going on (thus not in the scope of this game) and only the supplies specifically asked for will be brought forward. Not as specific as exact number and type of caliber, rather "small arms ammo", "food and water" or "clothes", but there sure wouldn't be a truck half full of artillery shells coming up the the foxholes and ask if anyone needs to top up their water bottles. In those cases the current system is actually more representative than what you suggest, since the supply will all be of the type requested. Main point is still that supply trucks on the front is unrealistic anyway, so why make a fuss about what it's carrying as if that's going to be determining whether it's realistic or not?
Secondly, I do not see how this would make the game more fun. More mechanics and more things to memorize and think about should only be added if it genuinely adds real depth (not the same as number of mechanics) or significant immersion. I established already in the paragraph above my argument that your proposed change would not add to realism and immersion, and I do not see how it would add meaningful gameplay depth. Will it enable new strategies? Will it significantly affect the diversity of unit types? Will it change how battles are fought or improve the meta-game? Again; my answer is "No, no, no, no!".
 
Last edited:

Commiekiller757

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Bottom line of the argument is if you don't like supplies being captured just go into options and turn on automatic targeting of supply vehicles.
 

1776ZOOMSNIPE1911

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Bottom line of the argument is if you don't like supplies being captured just go into options and turn on automatic targeting of supply vehicles.
It isn't so much that, but it is counter intuitive for supply (except for fuel, hand grenades) to resupply the other teams units, and for the sake of reality it would make sense that it cant be captured. An idea could be to give it very low moral so it just surrenders
 

1776ZOOMSNIPE1911

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1: Capture of enemy supplies happens very rarely, usually in cases where the player losing the truck is already losing badly. Also, the capturer may or may not actually need any supplies at that time, while taking the supplies from the enemy, be it by kill or capture, is on average the more impactful effect because that truck is almost always called in to answer to a specific need. For those reasons, I find it to be a rather irrelevant aspect of the game, close to the bottom of the priority list. It happens that you capture an enemy truck and it's nice to have, but it's not really a big deal.

2: I agree on this, it would be good to have a more distinct and realistic difference between light supply cars and big supply trucks. Of course the lighter cars should then also be a lot cheaper and more numerous to balance it out. However, again I would place this pretty damn close to the very bottom of the priority list for changes to make. Game must be in a pretty good state for this to be a relevant discussion.

3: No, no, no, no! First of all, the argument of realism is false. Supplies aren't usually brought up to an active front line at all, the common procedure is for the troops to rotate back to supply stations to get resupplied and then return, because obviously a big truck with weak off-road ability and filled with explosives showing up at the front and gathering a platoon around it is a really good way to reveal your position and get mortared. In some cases supplies are brought to the front, but that would mostly be during the night when no fighting is going on (thus not in the scope of this game) and only the supplies specifically asked for will be brought forward. Not as specific as exact number and type of caliber, rather "small arms ammo", "food and water" or "clothes", but there sure wouldn't be a truck half full of artillery shells coming up the the foxholes and ask if anyone needs to top up their water bottles. In those cases the current system is actually more representative than what you suggest, since the supply will all be of the type requested. Main point is still that supply trucks on the front is unrealistic anyway, so why make a fuss about what it's carrying as if that's going to be determining whether it's realistic or not?
Secondly, I do not see how this would make the game more fun. More mechanics and more things to memorize and think about should only be added if it genuinely adds real depth (not the same as number of mechanics) or significant immersion. I established already in the paragraph above my argument that your proposed change would not add to realism and immersion, and I do not see how it would add meaningful gameplay depth. Will it enable new strategies? Will it significantly affect the diversity of unit types? Will it change how battles are fought or improve the meta-game? Again; my answer is "No, no, no, no!".
  1. capturing of supplies is inconsistent with the style of the game
  2. maybe the small supplies can come earlier and move faster
  3. consider the trucks as having some extra equipment, i dont think it is too far fetched