Superior Tactician trait for air leaders in TFH.

[Dron22]

I noticed that Superior Tactician now says "offence 10%".
In previous versions this was good trait to use with TAC bombers, and in HOI2 its was for fighters lol.
So what is this trait for in TFH? What does 10% offence mean.
And whats the best air unit to benefit from this trait now?

 

[FabiusBile]

I noticed that Superior Tactician now says "offence 10%".
In previous versions this was good trait to use with TAC bombers, and in HOI2 its was for fighters lol.
So what is this trait for in TFH? What does 10% offence mean.
And whats the best air unit to benefit from this trait now?

Still Interceptors (Fighters), generally, since 10% offence seems to work like a damage bonus. Bombers should get Leaders with "Tank Buster" (Starts -> Carpet Bombers). While the trait does work for bombers (even for bombing afaik, it shows up at least) it is much more important that you win air fights with units with high air attacks in itself. So while a leader with superior air tactitian may help you survive to interceptions a bit better, I'd always put them in INT/CAG (unless you want fleet destroyer for those).

 

[Dron22]

Still Interceptors (Fighters), generally, since 10% offence seems to work like the static CA bonus for land units. Bombers should get Leaders with "Tank Buster" (Starts -> Carpet Bombers). While the trait does work for bombers (even for bombing afaik, it shows up at least) it is much more important that you win air fights with units with high air attacks in itself. So while a leader with superior air tactitian may help you survive to interceptions a bit better, I'd always put them in INT/CAG (unless you want fleet destroyer for those).

Thanks, but are you sure of this? I am pretty sure the Superior Tactician trait was useless for interceptors in FTM.
I think Tank buster goes best for dive bombers.

 

[tomstegmeier]

iam not sure about tankbuster, but the wiki says they reduce the hardness of the target... but that would mean the divebombr have an higher chance of using soft instead of hard attack... ich wouldbe worse. so i think tankbuster would be better in tacs.

but again what does +10 offence mean? (regarding the sup.tactician) does it apply to intecept mission or always when they attack, i cant remember seeing it anywhere as an modifier

 

[Dron22]

iam not sure about tankbuster, but the wiki says they reduce the hardness of the target... but that would mean the divebombr have an higher chance of using soft instead of hard attack... ich wouldbe worse. so i think tankbuster would be better in tacs.

but again what does +10 offence mean? (regarding the sup.tactician) does it apply to intecept mission or always when they attack, i cant remember seeing it anywhere as an modifier

Thanks, thats exactly my question too, what is the +10% offence Superior Tactician trait gives?

 

[FabiusBile]

Thanks, but are you sure of this? I am pretty sure the Superior Tactician trait was useless for interceptors in FTM.
I think Tank buster goes best for dive bombers.

I think both traits were reworked in TFH, I don't think they even have the same tooltips as in FTM. I'm however 100% sure that Superior Air tactician works well for INTs in TFH .

Tank busters gives +20% Tactical attack (Which I assume is any tactical attack i.e. ground attack and interdiciton) and thus works well on both dive bombers and TACS. Tank buster no longer provides special bonuses for hard targets as in FTM.

I just rechecked : Superior Air tactician is 10% offence in TFH and was +10 % Tactical attack in FTM. Tank Buster is +20 % Tactical Attack in TFH and used to reduce softness in FTM. Seems they swapped it around. Since none of those tooltips show in game; I have to assume they're damage modifiers instead of combat modifiers.

Naval Attack should probably increase Naval Damage; Tactical attack Soft/Hard Damage and Strategic attack should increase the strategical bombing values. This leaves offence, which should increase Air attack .

 

[Dron22]

I think both traits were reworked in TFH, I don't think they even have the same tooltips as in FTM. I'm however 100% sure that Superior Air tactician works well for INTs in TFH .

Tank busters gives +20% Tactical attack (Which I assume is any tactical attack i.e. ground attack and interdiciton) and thus works well on both dive bombers and TACS. Tank buster no longer provides special bonuses for hard targets as in FTM.

Thanks for the info, I wish those changes in TFH, which I welcome, were just better explained.
In game its vague and you have to guess and test yourself.
The wiki contains no information at all except a short page describing main new features in TFH.

 

[Pro_Consul]

In game its vague and you have to guess and test yourself.
The wiki contains no information at all except a short page describing main new features in TFH.

...or you could read the game files, in this case traits.txt:

tank_buster = { 
	allowed_leader = { air }
	tactical_attack = 0.2
}

carpet_bomber = { 
	allowed_leader = { air }
	strategic_attack = 0.1
}

night_flyer = { 	
	allowed_leader = { air }
	night_attack = 0.1
}

fleet_destroyer = { 
	allowed_leader = { air }
	naval_attack = 0.1
}

superior_air_tactician = {
	allowed_leader = { air }
	offence_modifier = 0.1
}

 

[Nicolas I]

While it's not explained directly in the Their Finest Hour Manual, it's written that gaining leaders traits are related to this:

CARPET BOMBER: From strategic bombing
TANK BUSTER: From tactical bombing.
FLEET DESTROYER: From bombing fleets.
SUPERIOR AIR TACTICIAN – From winning air combat

So it's not difficult to guess (sad we have to) that their bonuses are related to the same combat areas. The reworked bonuses make more sense for me, especially the superior air tactician being for air combat. They could have changed the name for "flying ace" or something like that to be more clear for everybody as every country had their own aces.

 

[Dron22]

Its the offence that kind of got me puzzled, because it could mean offence in regards to attacking ground units rather than intercepting enemy squadrons.
Thanks Pro-Consul, however the game files still don't explain the meaning of +10% offence.

 

[Meglok]

Its the offence that kind of got me puzzled, because it could mean offence in regards to attacking ground units rather than intercepting enemy squadrons.
Thanks Pro-Consul, however the game files still don't explain the meaning of +10% offence.

offense=air attack
tank buster=ground attack, interdiction
fleet destroyer=bombing ships at sea, convoy raiding, port strikes
carpet bomber=strat bombing mission
night flyer=night mission, helps mitigate night penalty.

Do not look at the values and explanations given in wiki site on this issue. They are from FtM and were changed in TFH.

 

[unmerged(180217)]

However, has anyone seen these modifiers actually indicated in the detailed modify display during combat? I never have....i've calculated the resulting attack/defense values of my aircraft, and they came out perfect....Air Superiority does nothing in TFH...same for tank buster...unless its a 10% damage mod, which can't really be tested...

The only trait I've seen work "sometimes" well is Night Flyer, where you see 10% less night attack penalty...however sometimes it doesnt work, and I see the standard -49% penalty instead of -39%

 

[nrostaie02]

Does anyone know what 'Spotting Chance' is for? Is it for spotting ground units or air units, in other words is it more effective to use on Interceptors or TAC/CAS?

 

[Pro_Consul]

Does anyone know what 'Spotting Chance' is for? Is it for spotting ground units or air units, in other words is it more effective to use on Interceptors or TAC/CAS?

Neither. It is for spotting naval units, and thus is most useful for ships and naval aircraft, i.e. CAGs and NAVs.

 

[nrostaie02]

Neither. It is for spotting naval units, and thus is most useful for ships and naval aircraft, i.e. CAGs and NAVs

Thanks

 

[Corelli]

When you attack ports you actually gain the Carpet Bomber trait, regardless if ships are present or not.

 

[Barvinok]

Do you get Carpet Bomber trait when doing Logistical Bombing missions?

 

[ntz]

hello ...

sorry for thread necromancy but I just felt that I should share the outcome from my investigation:

I've read a lot of threads here about leader traits, mostly focused on air leaders .. I've also seen a lot of antagonistic replies even from local heroes (ppl with thousands of posts, heh, some were 10k+) - they all were discussing *if* they even works and how ..

I did some research (changing the values in traits.txt to be sure) and here is what I've found (up-to-date TFH):

superior air tactician) Does nothing at all. `offence_modifier =' ani't just applied on neither AA or AG missions. For land leaders it works however even there - seems like - happen things kinda weird sometimes. For example attacking fortified territory *neutralizes* entirely the offense doctrine trait (yes, you hear good, maybe some bug)

tank buster) works, but it's not displayed as a % bonus in air combat window. It just adds damage. If you change `strategic_attack =' from default 0.1 to something insane like 20 (2000% in game), you could see straight away, that the damage dealt to units is for interdiction and ground attacks just 2000% of default.

I've randomly tested few other traits and they seem to work. I didn't test all traits, I was focused mainly on air traits.


conclusion) I was trying to find out, what I can do with that. The only what seems that can be attached to SAT skill (and that it makes some sense) is `experience_bonus =' .. This will apply to visible % for all actions of what given unit performs and from available options this makes only sense. Let's see this then as a general trait marking the leader as to be especially proficient with leading air units compared to other candidates.

regards

 

[tomstegmeier]

necromancy

 

[Gnorf]

necromancy

so? Doesn't really matter if he posts something relevant and useful, which he did, even though I'd like to confirm it myself when I get home from work